DaiAndOh Posted March 12, 2015 Author Posted March 12, 2015 On the 6HS stuff: I don't think it's very practical, I could only see it used in a punish situation and even then, it's situational. The damage is strong, but doing a bnb with a starter that's not prorated can be almost as strong depending on the circumstance. Even sacrificing 50 damage: If it doesn't kill, at the very least you'll have 50 meter+ you wouldn't have had before to help your next pressure sequence/confirm.It's not completely useless though, I'd maybe test doing a safe jump, then seeing if you have time to P set and then still punish (safe jumps mostly done with HS ball oki).On stream/video, certainly, I'd be down to help if you want.
Pomparomp Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Useful to know. Maybe after RC on an airborne opponent you can dash up into a QV loop? I'll definitely mess with this later. Unrelated note, but since Eshi has abandoned us to play Sin is currently dedicated to another character, would anyone want me to stream a sort of "Super Basics of Venom: K ball oki and other stuff" now that I have a PS4 stick? It won't be anything too crazy or in depth, just a general video guide for newer players looking to learn him so they have a visual reference. Figuring out k ball oki with only written aids was fucking hell, and i know i would have appreciated some help. Go for it.
Shinvergil Posted March 12, 2015 Posted March 12, 2015 Bishop Runout is an underrated OD. I use it often to get used to it and truly believe its worth the tension. Semi correct use basically scares the world out of those who experience it. No need to only use it inside combos. I can imagine its effectiveness increasing with the new patch. The only issue to beware of is that it can be Blitz rejected, although its an OD (ridiculous). I hope it gets fixed.
DaiAndOh Posted March 12, 2015 Author Posted March 12, 2015 Really...you can Blitz it? I never knew....But yeah, people tend to act like idiots around it. Fear in their hearts, etc.Still don't like that you can get gain tension during it (changing, albeit slower tension gain) and that I can get 2 stupidly powerful YRCs for the cost.The combos aren't anything noteworthy now, but depending on damage/situations may be very strong in 1.1....
SIne Posted March 14, 2015 Posted March 14, 2015 http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25771627 some rather cool options for oki
Diveman Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 I think it's the same guy, he uploaded another video showing more stuff http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25776078 EDIT: Can't you recovery before touchnig the ground after QV? I tried it on training mode and the dummy always techs
Shinvergil Posted March 17, 2015 Posted March 17, 2015 What are your thoughts on full QV charge after throw? I don't see jpn players do it, but I think its a good option. You can easily do the following: Throw, (dash or not), 5HS (or 6HS), charge P or K QV to your liking. You can also have a fully charged one ready by opponents wake up and can YRC QV ball release before it hits. It can be set up out of throw range or in and then bait the throw.
DaiAndOh Posted March 17, 2015 Author Posted March 17, 2015 After a throw, the positioning, damage, and okizeme is generally preferred.Doing more optimal oki that will lead into pressure instead of going back to neutral is more important with this character. This all thrives even more in the corner, where a throw combo will contribute significantly to netting you. So as powerful as the the charge ball is in neutral in some cases, this is still limited compared to the throw combos.This does get better with 1.1 changes though, QV's attack level raises with charge, depending on how much it is on block, could make this a lot more viable an option, because you could at least get strong okizeme.
Eshi Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 I haven't quit Venom, he's still my main. Sin is a fun secondary & the forum needed a dedicated moderator, but he's nowhere near as reliably strong as Venom. I haven't made anymore videos b/c I realized that my LGP introduced many frames of input delay and it threw off my execution in tournaments. I have a splitter now but need one more HDMI cable, then I can get back to making videos ^o^
KrsJin Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 I haven't quit Venom, he's still my main. Sin is a fun secondary & the forum needed a dedicated moderator, but he's nowhere near as reliably strong as Venom. I haven't made anymore videos b/c I realized that my LGP introduced many frames of input delay and it threw off my execution in tournaments. I have a splitter now but need one more HDMI cable, then I can get back to making videos ^o^ Wait, LGP adds frames? I haven't heard of this before. While streaming? Just recording? PC or PC-less mode?
SIne Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Dai edit: Referring to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pNebnpO6-A&feature=youtu.beThat is quite interesting. i like the mixup options rather than the actual QV loop with bishop runout. Very, very creative though...
ProZacStarrk Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 the QV loop is to SHOW that Sol and Millia are not the only ones with loops :P and yeah, my main reason for the video is the options that the super has to offer. mixup/reset potential. But people seem to focus only on the negative part, kinda sad
Hugotakon Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 As a Venom player Im grateful with u Carlos, that only show that Venom is one of the most versatile character in GG so far, where are u from Carlos?
ProZacStarrk Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 thank you Hugotakon that is what I wanted people to understand! that venom HAS options and has possibilities using Bishop Runout (+ a lot of swag imo, coolest loop in the game), Im originally from Peru, but I have been living in Norway 8 years now! Im really glad you liked the video! I hope more people get to watch it and enjoy watching venom loop the entire cast! :D and I will say this again... venom has the coolest loop! oh yeah!
Raynex Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 Hey everyone. I unearthed some awesome tech that cranks utility out of 2H as an anti-air. After reading through some old GG threads I saw that combos were possible off CH 2H(1) xx S Carcass Raid and I tried to recreate them in Xrd. It's unbelievable effective if you have a read on a jump-in. Only downside is you have to be charging for a tiny bit beforehand, but after Carcass pressure or ball sets it's not too uncommon. Tested on Sol's jumping normals, all are anti-air situations, SCR = S Carcass Raid Midscreen: CH 2H(1) xx SCR, 6HS xx Ball set CH 2H(1) xx SCR, 866 j.SHD, 6HS xx Ball set (159dmg) Corner CH 2H(1) xx SCR, slight dash 6HS, any typical QV combo (200~dmg in most cases) CH 2H(1) xx SCR, 866 j.SHD, 6HS xx SQV, 5P, iadj.SHD, 6HS xx PQV, 6HS, set (218dmg) The SCR hits no matter what distance you AA from. These conversions are stable and damaging, and so far universal. You can do a 1/4th of opponent's life on an easy jump-in or iad read, or talk half their life in the corner. The best part is this goes right back into oki. The momentum / carry / damage this gives is just incredible. CH 2H(1) is freakin awesome!
TittyFOFO Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 Yeah, 2HS is hella good for beating certain things because of how its hitbox is active forever. I use it to beat Elphelt ABE, and it can prolly work just as well against Sol's divekick. Height might be a factor for follow-up combos tho? Particularly the IAD stuff.
SnowMonkeyFunky Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 From what I tested before, height can be accounted for by doing superjump forward IAD into air chain, mainly for lighter characters getting hit higher up. My input for raw SJ IAD is 236956 (IE TK into dash). I do the same thing to follow up stuff like 2D xx H stinger RC.
Eshi Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 Wait, LGP adds frames? I haven't heard of this before. While streaming? Just recording? PC or PC-less mode? I think it's the LGP that causes lag? I have a rudimentary knowledge of hardware stuff but AFAIK all cables are lagless. A splitter gets around the problem since it routes the PS3 to both the TV & the LGP, instead of PS3 -> LGP -> TV.
Eshi Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 I think it's the same guy, he uploaded another video showing more stuff http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25776078 EDIT: Can't you recovery before touchnig the ground after QV? I tried it on training mode and the dummy always techs By the way, I used this K ball YRC idea a lot this weekend and was hitting people cross-up all day. This is really legit tech!
DaiAndOh Posted March 23, 2015 Author Posted March 23, 2015 BRO loop is interesting. My main gripe with it is that it's coming off of 5D (and of course, not building much in the way of meter back, but the okizeme options look great, that throw setup was dirty), and that I don't think it's doing that much damage for spending the meter.By the way, I used this K ball YRC idea a lot this weekend and was hitting people cross-up all day. This is really legit tech!It's good to lock out reversals and finish matches, but I don't know...I guess it comes down to personal philosophy but I don't like spending meter too often on Venom's okizeme (occasionally, I'll do it when I look like I'm going for a safe jump setup that will net strong damage if it helps).Personally, I like using meter on confirms and pressure extenders the best, as well as getting in during ground or air neutral.
Raynex Posted March 26, 2015 Posted March 26, 2015 That BRO loop looks super swag. I wish it did more damage though haha I'm been wanting to submit this for discussion for a little while. I needed time to refine it and I'm glad to say I'm confident in it's effectiveness. More tech!Counter-Hit QVs and Frame Traps As most of you likely know, when you land a CH QV and you are in the middle of the screen you are rewarded with a wall bounce. All QVs produce the same CH wallbounce, actually. Midscreen, the only QV that allows a stable universal follow-up is PQV. The ball placement is such that a single 5P allows you to transition to any of the 866 base combos. Example: CH PQV, 5P [bH], 866 j.SHD, 6HS (149 dmg on Sol) In the corner you're going to switch to KQV. None of the other versions allow you to reliably convert into damaging combos. CH KQV still provides the wallbounce, while placing the Kball in the same height as all your other corner combos. Example:CH KQV, 5K, 6P, 6HS xx SQV, 5P, iad j.SHD, 6HS (182 dmg on Sol) So the conversions on these aren't that different from what we already do, and they afford us pretty amazing damage + the usual corner carry. But how on earth do you land CH QV?Frame traps! After extensive testing, I've found a few very important things:- 5HS / 2HS(1) cancelled into QV has at most a 1-2 frame gap. If you cancel it asap without any delay, it beats mashing 5P/2P and anything slower. Any kind of retaliation via P,K,S,HS moves gets completely blown up. HS is a heavy duty button, and I think this might be one of it's best uses. You can 5HS / 2HS(1) xx KQV in the corner and you into 150+dmg if they press anything. If they don't you're decently spaced and now have a ball set.- c.S xx QV during any 3 of it's hits creates a true blockstring. No mashing or normals of any kind that interrupt this pressure. The trick here is to slightly delay when you release the QV charge, and you can create custom openings for them to mash into. Jumps / backdashes are caught as well for a hard knockdown. I've playtested this quite a bit and the results are there, as long as you can condition them. You can always hold your QVs mid-blockstring and release them to coincide with button presses, but manually doing that can be risky / difficult. This testing I've done gives us all a base to start with, and I think it will go a long way to fleshing out this character in Xrd. Hope this helps!
DaiAndOh Posted March 26, 2015 Author Posted March 26, 2015 Hmmm...don't 5HS and c.S have the same attack level, with 2HS having one lower? In that case 5HS and c.S should give you the same result when pressuring...
GodPress Posted March 27, 2015 Posted March 27, 2015 In the corner you're going to switch to KQV. None of the other versions allow you to reliably convert into damaging combos. CH KQV still provides the wallbounce, while placing the Kball in the same height as all your other corner combos. Example:CH KQV, 5K, 6P, 6HS xx SQV, 5P, iad j.SHD, 6HS (182 dmg on Sol) With regards to QV CH & non-CH combos you can also do corner SQV > c.S(1) > j.KSHD(BH) > 66 j.KSHD > 6H > Sets - 178DMG(Sol) Universal, also works without CH. Keep an eye on when and where the j.D hits the ball, you have to adjust accordingly. SQV> c.S(1) > j.KSHD(BH) > 6H > SQV > IAD SHD> 6H > set - 192DMG(Sol) PQV> c.S(2) > j.KSHD> 6H > Set - 132DMG(Sol) universal. HSQV > c.S(2) > j.KSHD> >6H > set - 132DMG(Sol) 3ball, universal. Near midscreen and near corner CH: KQV > 66 j.KSHD > 6H > Set - 136DMG/146(Sol) with added QV at the end(Sol) can add a 66 j.KSHD> 6H rep if near the corner. Generally a 3 ball setup unless you hit the ball with j.K, depending on how close to the corner you are you can add on S/PQV IAD SHD too. KQV > 66 c.S(1) > j.KSHD > 6H > set - 134DMG(Sol) 3 ball setup, you can make it easier by doing 66 5K > c.S(1) SQV > j.S(BH) > IAD J.SHD > 6H > SQV > 5P > IAD J.SHD > 6H > Set - 213DMG(Sol) gets easier the closer you are to the corner. Incredibly difficult to successfully land this midscreen on midweights. No possible to do on Heavyweights SQV> j.S(BH) > IAD J.SHD > 6H > PQV > 5P > IAD j.SHD > 6H > Set - 253DMG(Millia) Alternative to the above SQV > j.S(BH) > IAD j.SHD > 6H > KQV > 6P > HS > Set - 211DMG(Sol) TLDR: SQV every day. Enjoy stylin'.
Raynex Posted March 28, 2015 Posted March 28, 2015 Dai: I hadn't really read into attack levels, or how they factored into hit / blockstun. I looked at each individual move's frame data, recorded blockstrings using the dummy, and tried to mash in between with normals of different speeds. I'm glad you mentioned that. There are definitely holes in what I was trying, and this is probably one of them. Regardless, those 3 normals seem great for QV pressure in general. Godpress: Holy crap the meterless SQV corner conversions are blowing my mind. I thought CH QV was the only raw version of the move that allowed for combos. The interaction of the SQV ball placement for the j.KSHD to hit is beautiful. That's one of those things that reminds you why this character is so awesome. I just had a thought: will SQV, j.KSHD, etc. work as an airthrow BnB in the corner? The SQV will create a wallbounce post-throw, so the c.S(1) might not be necessary. I know you can do airthrow c.S(1), iad j.SHD and such, but this might be easier / more stable.
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