[Xrd] Venom Gameplay Discussion

[DaiAndOh]

So I've finally broken down and I've decided on getting Xrd.  I wasn't initially going to get it since my main (Testament) was taken out, but I like GG an awful lot.  Through recommendations and just generally liking the character and his playstyle, I've decided on Venom.  Is it worth it to practice him now in +R or has too much changed?

I feel (especially since you have it already) it's definitely good to get some practice in +R. His mechanics, normals, and gameplan can all transition to Xrd, some more than others, and getting familiar with a character like this one is going to take time if you're new, the earlier you get started, the better it's going to be.

In other Venom news, Ruu, the best Briget player in Japan has started playing some Venom in Xrd. He did me a favor and translated some of his notes...not the greatest English in the world, but you can definitely learn some things there!

http://blog.livedoor.jp/ruubr/archives/41801638.html

[Venussail91]

Thannks, DaiAndOh.  To training mode!

[GodPress]

4Gamer has been updated to provide taunts + colors. If you're too lazy to meander on over to the wiki here they are 1-6 and the mirror color:

 

 

 

Badly spliced together by myself, source from: http://wiki.4gamer.net/ggxrd/

[MasterXDrake]

Why is Venom low tier?

[DaiAndOh]

I think it's established depending who you ask he's basically low A/high B at this point, console character matchups pending. Not as low as Axl or Potemkin at the very least.

Basically though, his weaknesses are no reversal (even with meter), less than average health, mediocre mixup while pressuring (it's strong in quite a few okizeme situations) low reward off of poking game and anti-airs (And maybe the anti-airs themselves are mediocre like in AC+R, I'd need to see for myself though).

 

[GodPress]

Might be of use; I 'translated' the 4gamer Gatling chart. I've most likely gotten something wrong in that, feel free to correct me. 

For reference, SP = Special cancel JC = Jump cancel CH = Chainable because I couldn't think of a better word for it. 

 

Grounded chart:

Air chart:

[DaiAndOh]

Very nice. I'll check to see if we can use that on the wiki, if not I'll add the data to the gatling table and we can use the image in the coming combo thread.

[GodPress]

Very nice. I'll check to see if we can use that on the wiki, if not I'll add the data to the gatling table and we can use the image in the coming combo thread.

 

Excellent. Looking forward to the coming combo thread. 

[2312123131]

2 questions, thanks in advance:

1) Does Venom lack pressing options compared to Reload version? I ask about Reload because he seems closer to this version.

2) He also lost [...]>SA(hit), frc>66>[...], and now has to spend 50% for proceeding combo if SA hits. Is it a heavy loss for Venom?

[DaiAndOh]

2 questions, thanks in advance:

1) Does Venom lack pressing options compared to Reload version? I ask about Reload because he seems closer to this version.

2) He also lost [...]>SA(hit), frc>66>[...], and now has to spend 50% for proceeding combo if SA hits. Is it a heavy loss for Venom?

1. As in pressure? Technically a couple, but his strongest ones such as Carcass Raid and Mad Struggle are still around and as strong as ever.

2. It's something a lot of the cast lost as well (probably hurts Axl the most). It does hurt somewhat, but it doesn't kill the character or anything.

Also added move descriptions to the wiki. Check it.

[GodPress]

So I don't spam the page with images here are the ball formations:

P Formation:

http://i.imgur.com/r0d4JF9.png

 

K Formation:

http://i.imgur.com/2TjtExk.png

 

S Formation:

http://i.imgur.com/kUfAa6B.png

 

HS Formation:

http://i.imgur.com/UExIr2u.png

[DaiAndOh]

Very clean! Mind if I try adding them to the wiki later?

The gatling table I was told to just use a chart which will be updated in the frame data portion.

[GodPress]

Very clean! Mind if I try adding them to the wiki later?

The gatling table I was told to just use a chart which will be updated in the frame data portion.

Feel free to add them to the wiki.  

[CCVengeance]

I wish I could contribute to to the wiki but all I have is a notebook full of scribles only I can understand and might be innacurate

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

I was watching a video of Fino's Venom, and saw him do an interesting setup and combo that I don't really understand the execution to. It was after a 6HS knockdown into a 2 ball setup. It appears to be P and K ball but I could be wrong. Anyway, he hits the K ball with a j.K as standard oki, and the combo is as follows: j.S, cl.S[1] 5HS (hit P ball) xx* S CR

 

*This is where I'm confused, because I don't see where he could have charged the Carcass Raid. Maybe 5HS is cancelable a lot later than it used to be? Maybe he fully recovered and did the CR and I'm just not seeing it? I'm really not sure, and was hoping someone a little more well versed could explain exactly what he did.

 

Link is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAeSUS30NSc#t=55s

[DaiAndOh]

The formation is P->K I believe.

He charges immediately after pressing hs. You get more time to charge because of the 5hs hitting the ball, and it's very hard.

In the location tests, I did hear that Venom's charge times were reduced but when the full game came out I heard nothing. Maybe they have been? That would definitely help with that combo...

[Mumm-Ra]

Seems like Active frames of hs hit the ball even after it hit ram.

[GodPress]

Seems like Active frames of hs hit the ball even after it hit ram.

Yup, you can also do the same thing in #R and AC. PK formation. 

[DaiAndOh]

There's more formations you can do with as well. All that matters is your spacing with the ball and 5hs.

[GodPress]

So prior to home release and the imminent combo thread I thought I'd try to bolster that as soon as possible:

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s432/sh/e2a07045-67ce-432a-bd11-34ca0b649385/131a39dffad3db405b2afff6950d4080

 

Its poorly formatted, poorly worded and probably wrong but whatevers usable can kickstart the combo thread.

[DaiAndOh]

So prior to home release and the imminent combo thread I thought I'd try to bolster that as soon as possible:

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s432/sh/e2a07045-67ce-432a-bd11-34ca0b649385/131a39dffad3db405b2afff6950d4080

 

Its poorly formatted, poorly worded and probably wrong but whatevers usable can kickstart the combo thread.

Ok couple of quick things to note.

I'm not sure if K and S QV both apply to the 6P, 6HS and 5P IAD combos.

Please differentiate between f.S and c.S instead of using 5S. Was confused for a moment.

Note the c.S(3) doesn't work on crouchers anymore (#R status there). Maybe Pot? I'm not sure.

I'm not doubting you, but I am curious, how did you get the damage values?

[GodPress]

Ok couple of quick things to note.

I'm not sure if K and S QV both apply to the 6P, 6HS and 5P IAD combos.

Please differentiate between f.S and c.S instead of using 5S. Was confused for a moment.

Note the c.S(3) doesn't work on crouchers anymore (#R status there). Maybe Pot? I'm not sure.

I'm not doubting you, but I am curious, how did you get the damage values?

Damage values on those select combos are taken from the 4Gamer wiki.

Differentiated between f.S and c.S; good call.

 

Yeah, definitely should have mentioned the c.S(3) not hitting on crouchers.

 

And you might be right on the S/KQV, I'm basing it off of what I think I've seen in match videos and the seeaawiki seems to correlate with it. 

[DaiAndOh]

Damage values on those select combos are taken from the 4Gamer wiki.

Differentiated between f.S and c.S; good call.

 

Yeah, definitely should have mentioned the c.S(3) not hitting on crouchers.

 

And you might be right on the S/KQV, I'm basing it off of what I think I've seen in match videos and the seeaawiki seems to correlate with it.

"2K > c.S(3) > j.S > j.H > j.D > 6HS > Set"

Does this work without IAD? If it does, I'd rather see it with IAD for the extra corner carry. Same for the likes of 6P > c.S(2) > j.S > j.H > j.D > 6HS > Ball Set

Note that 6P>c.S anti-air only works when the opponent is close enough. If further spaced, the only option is 6P>6HS (which is only guaranteed on counterhit fyi) or maybe 6P>623S?

Note the first Mad Struggle combo won't be too useful in general (although it should be kept in mind). As an overhead, most of the time you'll be hitting crouching opponents.

Second throw combo should probably be j.D>6HS ending.

I think all 6HS enders can have a QV hit when the opponent is high enough.

[GodPress]

"2K > c.S(3) > j.S > j.H > j.D > 6HS > Set"

Does this work without IAD? If it does, I'd rather see it with IAD for the extra corner carry. Same for the likes of 6P > c.S(2) > j.S > j.H > j.D > 6HS > Ball Set

Note that 6P>c.S anti-air only works when the opponent is close enough. If further spaced, the only option is 6P>6HS (which is only guaranteed on counterhit fyi) or maybe 6P>623S?

Note the first Mad Struggle combo won't be too useful in general (although it should be kept in mind). As an overhead, most of the time you'll be hitting crouching opponents.

Second throw combo should probably be j.D>6HS ending.

I think all 6HS enders can have a QV hit when the opponent is high enough.

It does indeed work without the IAD, not entirely sure why some Japanese players do it over the IAD but I'm seeing it used fairly often so I thought it'd be worth jotting down. Whacked the IAD part in though.

 

You're definitely correct on the 6P>c.S AA. I'd assume 6P>623S RC is viable if you don't get CH to 6HS them.

 

Agreed on the Mad Struggle combo, alternative would be to c.S(2) route into 2D which gives you the option to just go for say K oki for spend meter or stinger RC. I'll whack in some more viable (less standing) versions.

 

I think you're also right on 6HS enders.

[Kirnupiima]

How tight is the IAD timing btw? I-no in +r has an IAD link with 3-4f leniency (by my counting) and it's a bitch. I hope Venom's isn't as hard so I could always resort to using him insted if things with the lady don't work out as smoothly.