[Xrd] Slayer Gameplay Discussion

[Loli-Zero]

Yeah. What those guys said.  2HS still good because it crushes lows, you can't spam it in footsies like AC, but you have other buttons for that.  6P is so good.  5P CH 6HS is still incredible.

 

It's day 6.  If people want to play an easy character to produce results they can always play Faust or Milia.  Few Japanese rep Slayer because most of the Slayer Gods don't play these days, and nobody wants to spend 20 100 yen coins a day trying to figure out tech for a character that rewards strong fundamentals when they could pick faust and spam f.S-item throw.  We have training mode now.  There's a lot of potential tech out there we just have to find it.

 

In regards to things he got, other then the combo stuff I already posted about, long dash is reaaaaaaalllly good.  If you're not sure why, you should play around with it more.  One of the best things he got though is easily IAD footloose YRC.  If you can get the timing perfect this becomes a full screen jump.  It's so good in matchups like Faust and Eddie.  Also the instant j.D 214214S combos that he can do on standing opponents do hemma damage.  You can follow up with c.s-2D for a knockdown.  For 50 meter its his highest damage confirm off of c.S or 2K and gives you knockdown.  I don't combo into DOT or 6HS-Pile anymore (unless youve got tons of guard crank) because his new combo options are so much better.

[Villainous]

Ok good to know on some of those things, but the big point is a lot of stuff he could "just do" is situational now.

1 6K has to be counter hit to get a combo off of it, so effectively it doesn't really matter that its an overhead in that situation. I guess you could jack their guard bar up and then use it for mixups. 
2 The 6K link into cS is good but that means you have to be on top of them to get damage off 2K. Your effective range at threatening low into combo got smaller basically. 

4 Ok I was testing that mid screen. Still kind of weird they give different properties depending on the dandy step used. 


7 Another situation he has to spend meter when he didn't before. 


I'm not trying to be down on him or whine though. Its just surprising how much he lost. For a somewhat low mobility character without any screen control with projectiles like most of the cast, there's not a lot of reward or threat for actually getting in with him, unlike how it used to be. BUT, atleast he still hits like a truck. 

[Wirya]

I kind of doubt that damage is still Slayer's big selling point, though.... Yes his damage output is still top class, but it doesn't seem to really matter in Xrd, for some reason.    

[Loli-Zero]

Did you play reload villainous? Most of the things you're talking about he didn't have until accent core, but he was A tier in reload. This game is way closer to reload then accent core. If you compare to reload there are still big things he lost that present challenges to people wanting to play him, but most of them aren't the things you are describing.

In other words, players coming from solely accent core need to change up their style entirely anyway, but not everything involved in that process is negative. He's a much different character. In reload/XRd slayer is a heavily fundamentals/footsie based characters with strong defensive options. You murder people for sloppy play and wanting to get out. On offense you're goal is guard crank your opponent with frame traps that score huge CH damage, and then set up greedier mixups if an opponent refuses to press a button.

For any player coming from accent core I would recommend watching footage or reading guides from reload as a starting point. There are tricks and gimmicks you can apply from accent core here and there but you shouldn't use that version of slayer to inform the foundation of your gameplay.

Aaaand he still does massive damage if you have meter available. I checked today, and 4xS j.D 214214S c.S f.S 5K-K Mappa does 230 with 0 guard crank. Im not sure what the average damage is in this game yet, but that's ridiculous damage off a left/right mixup. Similarly I'm getting 200+ damage off of AA confirms for 50 meter. I don't think many other characters can get that off of accessible AA tools

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Villainous]

Did you play reload villainous? Most of the things you're talking about he didn't have until accent core, but he was A tier in reload. This game is way closer to reload then accent core. If you compare to reload there are still big things he lost that present challenges to people wanting to play him, but most of them aren't the things you are describing.

In other words, players coming from solely accent core need to change up their style entirely anyway, but not everything involved in that process is negative. He's a much different character. In reload/XRd slayer is a heavily fundamentals/footsie based characters with strong defensive options. You murder people for sloppy play and wanting to get out. On offense you're goal is guard crank your opponent with frame traps that score huge CH damage, and then set up greedier mixups if an opponent refuses to press a button.

For any player coming from accent core I would recommend watching footage or reading guides from reload as a starting point. There are tricks and gimmicks you can apply from accent core here and there but you shouldn't use that version of slayer to inform the foundation of your gameplay.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah I can see that. I played reload but that was a loooooooooooooong time ago lol. I'm just gonna rethink how I played him from the ground up. Seems like the focus is gonna be on footsie and teleport cross up / dandy mixups on oki, as well as just jacking the guard bar. Basically with my post I was just trying to say that he really didn't get BETTER at doing anything to make up for what he had before, so I think that's why a lot of people are seeing him as one of the weaker characters now. But "weaker" in GG is still viable thankfully. Just means you're a little more honest. 

[Loli-Zero]

Yeah man. If you have any questions about when to use what normals and what not just ask. I played accent core too and you could just spam 2HS, 2D, and 5K like a moron and have "good footsies". All of his normals are still solid, they just have specific purposes. If you need crutch buttons while you figure out what's going on just hit 6hs and c.S a lot at their respective ranges. (And buffer 6hs into dandy so you can combo off CH or air hit and go into pressure if they block)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[fogelstrom]

Yeah man. If you have any questions about when to use what normals and what not just ask. I played accent core too and you could just spam 2HS, 2D, and 5K like a moron and have "good footsies". All of his normals are still solid, they just have specific purposes. If you need crutch buttons while you figure out what's going on just hit 6hs and c.S a lot at their respective ranges. (And buffer 6hs into dandy so you can combo off CH or air hit and go into pressure if they block)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hah when reading this I thought "This is Xrd Slayer 101" haha. Basically with that and being able to combo you're pretty far along already

I hope people are gonna start posting some critique vids or something soon enough. I need some inspiration to up my own game.

 

Also after watching Hase/Sanma matches I'm gonna try out combos such as CWH, 5HS, j.SHD, dj.KSHD, j.2K, j.PD instead. 220 dmg on I-No. Might be more consistent or whatnot. I won't be able to sit down in training mode until tomorrow to test things out better in more situations and characters especially heavier characters.

[EL_TRO]

6K is hard to apply I feel. The reward seems to be on CH only while they're crouching. Not really comfortable with it as I was in AC and +R of course. Aside from that I kinda like this version of Slayer. Sure they've taken a lot of stuff I really digged of +R Slayer but he is still pretty fun so far. 

[Loli-Zero]

Did testing on combo routes from c.S today.

 

2.K c.S-f.S and c.S-f.S c.S-f.S can combo into j.D 214214S on Bedman, Eddie, Ramlethal, and Sol

 

2.K c.S and c.S-f.S c.S can combo into j.D 214214S on I-No, Ky, and Potemkin

 

c.S-f.S can combo into j.D 214214S on Axl, Chipp, Elphelt, Milia, Sin, Slayer, and Venom

 

The j.D route does not work at all on Faust or May, and only works on standing opponents in all cases.

 

 

If you end the combo with c.S-2.D the damage is almost identical to Mappa RC routes, and gives you a worse oki situation then a J.D ender.  However, if you end with c.S-f.S 5K-K Mappa the damage is usually around 20 higher.  So the route should really only be used to squeeze out extra damage without additional meter usage.

 

In all other cases, its best to just do c.S-f.S c.S-f.S 5K-KMappa RC K-Dandy CWH 5HS j.S-j.HS-j.D and take the okizeme.

 

In cases where you want to frontload damage to avoid bursting just cancel 4xS into DOT for about 20-30 damage less then the Mappa RC ender.

[Villainous]

What are you guys doing off a Helter Skelter hit? I'm just doing j.H j.D 5K Mappa but there's probably better stuff. 

[mrshmearo]

Is there a Slayer evernote or a place for combos yet?

[bluzenblazen]

What are you guys doing off a Helter Skelter hit? I'm just doing j.H j.D 5K Mappa but there's probably better stuff.

J.h, 2.k, 2.d for knockdown. I suck at getting j.d to work after j.h. and if I delay j.h long enough it misses on counter hit and let's me 6.h confirm.

[bluzenblazen]

This version of slayer is finally starting to click for me. I have to be way more on point than in ac+r with my neutral buttons. I also have to condition people way more to get fat damage. But damn does he do well when you make people press things at the wrong time. Like if you do 5.d6, c.s, 6.h, p dandy, s, delay s. The overhead won't combo and will get a ch if they press things. Tried mashing throw and got ch.

[fogelstrom]

J.h, 2.k, 2.d for knockdown. I suck at getting j.d to work after j.h. and if I delay j.h long enough it misses on counter hit and let's me 6.h confirm.

You have to delay j.H to be able to do stuff like 2K/c.S after hitting j.H. I would not really recommend this since it usally doesn't even combo from Helter Skelter and gives people time to react and stand up and block. I really prefer j.H, j.D, 5K, 236K. But that's all you seem to get. Obivously you can RC the Mappa and add CWH, 5HS, j.SHD for some extra damage.

 

This version of slayer is finally starting to click for me. I have to be way more on point than in ac+r with my neutral buttons. I also have to condition people way more to get fat damage. But damn does he do well when you make people press things at the wrong time. Like if you do 5.d6, c.s, 6.h, p dandy, s, delay s. The overhead won't combo and will get a ch if they press things. Tried mashing throw and got ch.

It's Late has throw invul 1-13 with 14F startup so you can be grabbed on 1F.

Also personally I don't like to purposly drop combos to mixup. I feel that it's a scrub tactics (just my opinion!). Obivously it's nice to blow people up some times for facerolling their stick/pad. 

[Ballermachine]

What's the best damage you've gotten off of a Helter Skelter counter hit? Due to heavy input lag on my current setup I can't test the longer(-ish) CWH combos, so I'd like to know. I'll update asap with damage values.

 

Meterless

Anywhere: P or K Dandy -> Helter Skelter (CH) -> 6HS -> P Dandy -> PB

Anywhere: P or K Dandy -> Helter Skelter (CH) -> 6HS -> P (or K?) Dandy -> CWH -> stuff

(Lulzy gimmick: Helter Skelter (CH) -> Gold IK activation on land -> All Dead)

 

50% meter

Mid-screen: P or K Dandy -> Helter Skelter (CH) -> airdash forward (crossup) -> Up and Close Dandy [2-hit with tail] 

In corner: P or K Dandy -> Helter Skelter (CH) -> airdash forward (in corner) -> Up and Close Dandy [2-hit with tail]

[Loli-Zero]

What's the damage like on the 2hit DHD ones?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ballermachine]

What's the damage like on the 2hit DHD ones?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Raw DHD (2-hit) = 210 damage (1.00x defense rating)

HS (CH) -> airdash -> DHD (2-hit) = 180 damage (1.00x defense rating)

HS (CH) -> land 6HS -> CWH -> stuff = 150+-ish damage (1.00x defense rating)

HS (CH) -> land 6HS -> PB = 123 damage (1.00x defense rating)

 

Honestly I don't know if it's worth it (damage-wise) over a tensionless 6HS CWH combo, I'm just a #R lobby noob .

 

Edit: 

Flashy MLG combo video material:

TK DHD (positioned so that only the tail hits) -> YRC (before tail connects) -> land -> jump -> j.K j.P j.K -> dj.c -> j.K j.P j.K j.D j.2K -> Footloose Journey = 235 damage (1.00x defense rating) 

Only really tested this on Faust, didn't feel like testing this gimmick on the rest of the cast because who's going to spend 75% meter for (extremely situational) 235 damage

[fogelstrom]

The issue with Helter Skelter is that you can't confirm CH or non CH whatsoever. So you have to sacrifice a potential non CH Helter Skelter hit in hopes for CH. Imo you will get alot more normal hits than CH and I would always go for j.H, j.D combo.
HOWEVER in the cases that you can actually confirm that Helter Skelter will CH because of what your opponent is doing while you pressed HS during Dandy these combos are indeed good to know of.

[Loli-Zero]

Maybe you can YRC you're falling J.Hs before it connects in a CH situation. Probably too fast to react but that would be interesting.

One thing I did find for helter skelter is that if you roman cancel it on block during the frames where he's touching the ground, he will be grounded and you can get a guaranteed undertow. Even on instant block they can't move or press buttons, so burst and DA are the only ways they can get out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rei-Scarred]

What makes command grab better than normal grab for Slayer? How plus (if at all) is K mappa on hit? Is there any sort of near universal air pickup for Slayer or is it all height dependent? Every time I think I can do a j.S in an air string it whiffs

This is my first serious GG so please be gentle. Will probably have lots of questions this weekend when I really start the grind.

[4r5]

command grab has like twice the range of his normal grab, and since it's a command, can be canceled into from a dash or backdash

K Mappa is, at worst, -1 on hit. At best, +5

you will have to eyeball the situation to determine the correct follow up for an air combo.

If I'm not sure about what to do, I just do something simple like j.K-D.

[Wirya]

One thing I did find for helter skelter is that if you roman cancel it on block during the frames where he's touching the ground, he will be grounded and you can get a guaranteed undertow. Even on instant block they can't move or press buttons, so burst and DA are the only ways they can get out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This sounds broken. A guaranteed unblockable setup? I need to test the effectiveness, lol.

[OneSanitarium]

Wouldn't be that broken at all. 50% meter to get the unblockable, 50% more for a combo from it.

[Wirya]

Still, if it's guaranteed and the damage is good....

[Uncivilized Elk]

Isn't it also like 1 frame window to RC HS on the ground?


So any experienced Slayer peeps mind helping a noob? Is the air juggle jS jK jD jP djS jH jD universal? And if there's a better universal air combo (or if the one I listed isn't universal), does anybody mind providing me one?