[Xrd] Slayer Gameplay Discussion

[fogelstrom]

I use both P and K Dandy when calling people out with Pilebunker. Depends a bit on what characer I'm playing if they have good moves with alot of active frames. Like Bedman 2K and Axl 2K. Against these you'll have to do 214K instead and it's usally safer to just do Under Pressure since they most likely have recovered already.
 

I'm a bit of an elitist and always think of high level play and almost always dictate everything after that. As Loli says BDC Mappa is invaluable to blow up mashers and condition people to stop mashing after Mappa. I really dislike the kind of X beats Y beats Z play that comes after K Mappa and I should REALLY use P Mappa alot more.

Also I think IAD j.S(X), j.K should be used alot more offensive after like 5K, 5K, on block and c.s, f.S, 2K. It's really good and let's you keep pressure without having to resolve to Dandy ALL the time. After a while people will figure out where you do Dandy and punish you for it. It's not that fun to get CH'd by Sol 2D all the time if you are too obvious about it.

 

 

[Wirya]

Also I think IAD j.S(X), j.K should be used alot more offensive after like 5K, 5K, on block and c.s, f.S, 2K. It's really good and let's you keep pressure without having to resolve to Dandy ALL the time. 

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with this. We should never forget that Slayer has a short but fast airdash that suits him perfectly. 

[Loli-Zero]

Well high level play is built on the back of basic play. So flowcharts like that are important. You still see that exchange in JP matches, it's just that both players understand every layer opposed to auto piloting to one response.

Also using P Mappa only gives you one extra frame and leaves you too far to do much, so I wouldn't recommend it really for ending combos unless you really don't want to stand next to your opponent.

I'm with you guys on the IAD stuff. I need to put more of that into my game. I also notice Hase does a lot of IAD backwards j.HS to control soace

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[Drake Aldan]

pilebunker is an additional few frames.

 

Huh. Does anyone have the data on that? If I get hit out of it on the way back in, does that mean I missed my input (didn't do it ASAP)? I've seen it trade, too- do the i-frames not overlap with its active frames?

 

I will say on characters that are not Potemkin you (or your friend) should just learn to use 5HS j.S(1) j.HS j.D for air juggles

 

I'll keep it in mind. Is there a character weight list anywhere for Xrd?

5H seems most viable on Millia (to me).

 

I'd include a few more things probably.

 

Please do. I like to put everything in one place, so I don't have to go searching through topics to find stuff, and so I can look over all of it at once.

[MasterXDrake]

So what are Slayer's BnB combos? I would like to see them in action thanks. 

[Loli-Zero]

For P dandy step you get invuln for frame 1-3, you can cancel the step into follow ups anywhere in between frame 15-30.

K-step is invuln frame 1-6, and the cancel window is 27-38.

Pile bunker is your fastest follow up at 4 frames. (So earliest p step pilebunker is a total of 19 frame startup)

Under pressure is at 5.

CWH is 6 frame startup. If I'm not mistaken it's hit invuln frame 1-18 and throw invuln 3-18.

Main things I'd add to your write up are:

5P-6HS as anti air. Will combo on counter hit and can be followed into pilebunker for easy damage (or other stuff for harder combos). This is really important to learn.

6HS is really good for controlling space in neutral. It also cancels from c.S and 5K for frame traps. You can then cancel it into d-step. On CH hit they are staggered and you can pilebunker or CWH. On hit you can do under pressure (won't combo) and then mixup. On block you can do the same thing, but use pilebunker to counter mashing/jumping and CWH to counter Dps. Do that once or twice and most opponents will have to let you under pressure your way back in. You can even empty step and throw.

After blocked under pressure your options are its late, 2K, walk forward throw/bite, dash through c.S, or dandy step again. It's 0 frames unless instant blocked so you have a lot of leeway.

For neutral approaches you want to learn how to move with mappas and BDC mappas, dandy steps and BDC dandy steps, forward and long dash, IAD, FDC IAD, BDC IAD, IAD backwards, and IAD footloose YRC. Slayer is surprisingly an incredible mobile character. You just have to learn how to be precise in executing what you want to do, and learning what angles approaches come in from and are weak against.

You can probably simplify that stuff a bit, but I would still consider most of that "basics" that are necessary to learn the character. One of slayers drawbacks is he is a fundamental heavy character and relies a lot on knowing the full spectrum of his tools to be useful even at low level play. Whereas a character like Faust can get by with f.S item toss, FDC j.S, and basic hit confirms.

So what are Slayer's BnB combos? I would like to see them in action thanks.

*points to combo thread*

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[Wirya]

For P dandy step you get invuln for frame 1-3, you can cancel the step into follow ups anywhere in between frame 15-30.

Pile bunker is your fastest follow up at 4 frames. (So earliest p step pilebunker is a total of 19 frame startup)

On a grounded opponent, 6H into P d-step into pilebunker is a legit combo. Though I don't know how useful it is in Xrd; it was good in #R and Slash. Even though it's supposed to require a 1-frame timing, I found that it's not that hard. (Perhaps because of increased hitstops in Xrd?)

[Drake Aldan]

OK, putting together blockstrings/block options:

 

After K Mappa:

 

- BDC Mappa (go-to)

 

- 214PP or crouching Blitz Shield (stops 2P/2K mash)

 

- cS or 5K (if they do something like Grand Viper)

 

- fourway (walk forward throw/bite, short dash cS, 6K/2K) (when they start blocking)

 

After cS:

 

- 6K

 

- 6K YRC (recovers airborne) jS/land 2K

 

- gatling fS

 

- neutral jump, descending jK

 

- forward jump crossup jK (specific range)

 

- 5D/2D (not very practical)

 

After fS:

 

- cS again (cS > fS > cS > fS is gapless with the right timing and pushes you out to a range where most of the following options will work)

 

- K Mappa (there's a gap)

 

- BDC Mappa (shouldn't have to do this...)

 

- jump forward jS, do cS > fS when you land

 

- IAD jK (crossup)

 

- dash/long dash cS (crossup) (at fS max distance, short dash is in front and long dash crosses up)

 

- 5K (fS is +6 on block)

 

- 5D

 

After 5K:

 

- IAD jS > jK > cS > fS or whatever

 

- 5K again (not at tip range)

 

- K Mappa (gap)

 

- BDC Mappa (if the lag is eating your frame advantage)

 

- Long dash, cS (crossup) (from further range)

 

- gatling into 6H

 

- 2D (no gatling) (should be safe on block...)

 

- 214PP (not canceled, after 5K recovers)

 

- 214PS/214KS (depending on distance)

 

After 6H:

 

- K Mappa

 

- 214PP (short mash)

 

- 214KK (ranged mash)

 

- 214KS (when they start blocking)

 

After Under Pressure:

 

- It's Late (should at least trade with mashers)

 

- 2K (treat like 5K if blocked, sans jump options)

 

- Walk forward throw/bite (if you don't walk forward you'll either be out of range or they'll still be in blockstun!)

 

- short dash, cS (crossup)

 

- 214PS again

 

---

 

214P/K ~ throw/bite works when enemy consistently respects Under Pressure

 

---

 

Is that about right?

[Loli-Zero]

Pretty much, except you should do 214PS not 214 KS in most situations where you want that. Also if they respect you enough to not mash after k Mappa, go for mixups not under pressure. Like step forward throw works if they are too scared to press a button. Or dash through S. Or just do 5K-6HS dandy step, and then go into under pressure if they block or something. Dandy step after k Mappa is more of a half way point that limits your options but allows you to respond to a variety of situations depending on how good your reflexes are. K dandy give you more time to respond but gives your opponent more time to respond too

And yeah I forgot you can just combo pilebunker on hit after 6HS. It's actually really easy in this version

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[Drake Aldan]

Or dash through S.

 

Deep K Mappa (blocked), short dash cS seems really, really good (at least online). The damage is superb... and if they mash anything but 5P/2P type stuff they'll whiff and get hit.

Even easier than BDC Mappa (though BDC Mappa is safer, and more "solid")...

 

What beats crossup dash? It feels like they have to specifically call it out by timing a quick interrupt or throw

[Loli-Zero]

Throw. People will hold back and hit a button (like p or S) with HS to option select throw and attack. That way if you dash in you get thrown and if you don't do anything they use a normal. Bad to mediocre players will rarely throw you out of crossups. Good players will throw you out of cross ups 100% of the time until you call them out with a throw bait that also works on the OS.

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[Drake Aldan]

http://youtu.be/7fP9YCU_kYw

 

... Al-righty then.

[Loli-Zero]

Ah yes, the os I was describing is actually 6 x+HS. Holding 4 gives you FD

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[DandyStepOnTheDanceFloor]

Does anyone else have trouble against Elphelt? I feel like her neutral is just to amazing against ours.. I'm still new and have lots to learn but I'm not new to fighters and i can't remember that last time i felt so helpless..

[fogelstrom]

We really should start using the match up sub forum. But I'll answer here anyway.

I get what you're coming from but it's not as bad as Zato. A few key points for me though.

Bridal Express - I think this is negative on block? I have not checked myself but been told. You can BDC stuff or Dandy after if they always press buttons.

2S is the reincarnation of Jam 2S and it's really good. You are gonna get CH'd by this a lot if you attempt to much Dandy pressure.

f.S even worse than 2S. Always canceled into 5HS and now they get oki. Due to this and 2S block to IAD j.S, j.K is needed a bit more imo. They got c.S so don't overuse this either but if you always get away with it abuse.

5HS if they mash this move you can use 2D to slide under for CH as Drake showed in a video earlier. Big thing to know about since you get free combo at right distances.

Due to the moves above you are going to lose in neutral so you have to play smart around these moves. Mainly learn what they are doing and counter that with footsies and your own tools. Easier said than done I know.

Probably the most important part is dealing with the oki. It's vital that you can BDJC (backdash jump cancel) well. The berri grenade barely has any blockstun so you can try mashing 2P to see how tight pressure they have but using BDJC will help you escape slot of stuff in the corner. Same as with I-No note oki.

I play this match up with a further than normal spacing because yeah. Elphelt has some great normals. Obvious but when you get the knockdown you have to make it count and stay on her the best you can.

[DandyStepOnTheDanceFloor]

Sorry i will post in match ups next time.. Thanks for the advice. I appreciate any help in understanding the match up. If anyone would be interested in adding me on psn i would be thankful for some 1V1 and observing you fight this solid Elphelt i play often..

[fogelstrom]

I'm EU so probably no help there ^^
But that's a good idea if anyone could help you out.

I'd probably need the same when it comes to playing against Zato. I got nothing there.

[Melo]

I feel like Elphelt is a lot like the Potemkin matchup in that she forces you to be more judicious in your approach during neutral.

 

Predictable mappa and dandy steps can get CH by f.S and 5H. Berry having a hitbox fucks a lot with mappa and dandy step approaches as well (seriously fuck that berry). c.S is pretty godlike as an AA so you can't get too predictable with j.H 6P gets beat by bridal express but it does beat f.S. I tend to use a lot more 5p and 2p in this match.

 

I think we should be able to get out of her UB set-up with BDC FD jump or BDC DoT but can't say for sure.

 

Definitely an annoying match-up for SL.

 

What do you guys go for after 5D CH or max range? SS > The Rest ? My muscle memory keeps trying to do 2p-5p > The Rest, lol.

[Loli-Zero]

You mean 2D? Yeah c.S f.S is what you want to do. I still go for 2P 5P sometimes to.

I think your analysis of the matchup is pretty right on. I also feel like slayer can get out of the unblockables. That's at the top of my list for things to lab next time I have time to play.

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[Uncivilized Elk]

I play Slayer and Elphelt and to me it does seem like Slayer has to play extra carefully against her. Once you get in and the pressure is on your side it is very difficult for Elphelt to get out though since she lacks reversals outside of super (which isn't that good) and Slayer's normals I would argue are better than El's 1 character-width apart. Without a pinberry as backup Elphelt also can't do much to get in on Slayer, so more likely than not the El will be trying to respond to what you do rather than the other way around. At least that was my experience when I played Slayers with my El. 

Be more patient, avoid the grenade, and then it's time to rush her down before she can pull another one is the way to go IMO.

[Zombies8MyLeg]

I rarely post but I just wanted to say how helpful this thread is. I've been doing pretty good online with Slayer since I've gotten Xrd, but players are getting smarter and I've been having some trouble. Thanks to this thread though I know how to make Mappa safer for myself as well as some other info I was unsure of.

 

Just wanted to say thanks for the helpful info. 

[Ukyo_PL]

Hi

 

As there's no topics in Matchups section of the forum i guess i will drop Q Bombs here im having few problems with Axl matchup. Any idea what to do against Axl Stance? As Dash and iAD with Shield will just reset me back to the end of stage and Just Block with P to get him out of his stance Works only if he will go for low form it ( im talking about max distance as from mid range its not an issue at all )

 

Another thing is general matchup question after watching quite few JP Slayers im wondering how is it possible for them to use Close S so freely and Dandy Step the way that it's being respected? Close S Can be thrown when i do it most of times and JP players are basing most of their pressure on it same for any Dandy Step its usually getting punished by randomly mashed 2P or some other quick shit.

 

So yeah any advice would be appreciated as they don't respect my Dandy Step :sadface:

[Loli-Zero]

Try hitting p for Pilebunker follow up as early as you can in the cancel window. If someone is mashing you will CH hit them. Just do this until someone stops mashing. If that's sounds too risky you can do dandy step YRC Mappa instead if you have meter.

For c.S just don't stand right next to them on wakeup and you should be ok. Meaties always lose to throw if you are in throw range. You can also walk up like you are going to meaty and then BDC Mappa for a counter hit

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[Ukyo_PL]

Loli-Zero thx for hints.

 

Jap players do c.S,S,c.S,S,DOT Combo all the time thats the reason i'v been thinking why no one throws them o_O After watching more Slayer vs Axl videos i can see that even them, are struggling with his stance so it just might be genuinely bad matchup for Slayer

[Yuhoke]

A successful Blitz Shield will stop that Axl stance zoning pretty quickly