[Xrd] Slayer Gameplay Discussion

[Poultrygeist]

I'm not sure if I should even post here since I don't play Guilty Gear but I've found myself in this situation in other fighting games before so I'd like to throw in my two cents.

I think it's important for you to consider what makes you want to play Slayer.  If you really like his character or his style and want to continue playing him for that, then the struggle is unavoidable.  You're not the only one who has to struggle either, literally every Slayer player has to overcome his handicaps, and everyone currently playing him seems to be managing.  I think, if you do want to continue playing him, you should be more specific with what is frustrating you so you can work on overcoming it, because to be honest it was pretty disrespectful for you to pop off at the other posters right from the get go.  It's fine to be frustrated but you won't get anywhere if you don't try to address what's making you upset.

That said, if you're only still playing him because he's all you knew before, then I don't see why that would hold you back from learning a new character.  I mean, obviously learning a new character is going to feel weird and unfamiliar and require some work, but if you stick with Slayer you're still going to be in that situation because you're adapting to an inferior, newer version of him.  If you like his play style, you can try and find another character on the roster with superficial similarities or who has something like what you liked in Slayer.  All I can really say is that it does not seem like you are having fun with Slayer, and it seems like his nerfs and how demanding he is are demotivating you from continuing.  So really if you aren't having fun then there's no reason to continue playing him.  You said that learning a character that isn't Slayer is more than you're capable of, but if Slayer is as different as he is, you're going to have to adapt to him anyway.

Sorry for the wall of text.

[IreulTheSlayer]

2 minutes ago, Poultrygeist said:

I'm not sure if I should even post here since I don't play Guilty Gear but I've found myself in this situation in other fighting games before so I'd like to throw in my two cents.

I think it's important for you to consider what makes you want to play Slayer.  If you really like his character or his style and want to continue playing him for that, then the struggle is unavoidable.  You're not the only one who has to struggle either, literally every Slayer player has to overcome his handicaps, and everyone currently playing him seems to be managing.  I think, if you do want to continue playing him, you should be more specific with what is frustrating you so you can work on overcoming it, because to be honest it was pretty disrespectful for you to pop off at the other posters right from the get go.  It's fine to be frustrated but you won't get anywhere if you don't try to address what's making you upset.

That said, if you're only still playing him because he's all you knew before, then I don't see why that would hold you back from learning a new character.  I mean, obviously learning a new character is going to feel weird and unfamiliar and require some work, but if you stick with Slayer you're still going to be in that situation because you're adapting to an inferior, newer version of him.  If you like his play style, you can try and find another character on the roster with superficial similarities or who has something like what you liked in Slayer.  All I can really say is that it does not seem like you are having fun with Slayer, and it seems like his nerfs and how demanding he is are demotivating you from continuing.  So really if you aren't having fun then there's no reason to continue playing him.  You said that learning a character that isn't Slayer is more than you're capable of, but if Slayer is as different as he is, you're going to have to adapt to him anyway.

Sorry for the wall of text.

Nothing makes me "want" to play Slayer. I hate every second of it. It's just if I don't play, I get the most exuberant withdrawal, which is worse than any I had before, even over alcohol. Calming that withdrawal requires playing, and playing other characters makes me experience a reflexes clash, which only makes it worse. I'm stuck with Slayer.

Everyone who currently plays him seems to be a masochist in their perfect situation. They are ready to call opponent self-destruction a victory and attribute it to themselves, simply enjoying all the misery they have to deal with before it happens. Everyone else just quit.

And that is hardly a wall.

[Zerosleep]

If you're not enjoying playing Slayer, don't play him and pick a different character. Unless trolling, you've apparently broken your hand from breaking a gamepad and go through "withdrawls" from not playing him so you should maybe see a therapist rather than an online forum...

[IreulTheSlayer]

11 minutes ago, Zerosleep said:

If you're not enjoying playing Slayer, don't play him and pick a different character. Unless trolling, you've apparently broken your hand from breaking a gamepad and go through "withdrawls" from not playing him so you should maybe see a therapist rather than an online forum...

Of course I've seen a therapist already. In short, there is no cure for addiction outside of surgical brain invasion. Other than that, it's just a management of symptoms which makes addicted person have an outer resemblance of normal life, permanently suffering a withdrawal of varying levels, and taking debilitating medication. Both is only recommended on addictions which have adverse effect on the patient's health (like substance abuse), which was judged to be not my case - so there's nothing medicine could do - aside wishing me a long and unhappy painful life.

Like I were saying, picking a different character is not an option, because it is making it worse without any upsides. The situation is inescapable, I'm stuck with Slayer.

[fogelstrom]

4 hours ago, IreulTheSlayer said:

Me too, but, just like you, on forums only.

I wonder why people like you need so many bullshit? Is it where you get your kicks from?

It's on my YT channel but w/e

From what you are writing I'd assume you are not as good as anyone else playing Slayer tbh and last I checked both Hase and F Driver has 'ranks' that I assume is referred to as 26 Dan and above on the arcade ranking.

[clams419]

Modern art, man.

how do you guys feel about using il or cs fs, 2p x mappa yrc in the corner? The bats and other stuff make ut difficult to see, so the mixup  is pretty okay. I'm just trying to figure out some uses for mappa yrc lol

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[_Sey]

Just now, clams419 said:

Modern art, man.

how do you guys feel about using il or cs fs, 2p x mappa yrc in the corner? The bats and other stuff make ut difficult to see, so the mixup  is pretty okay. I'm just trying to figure out some uses for mappa yrc lol

I don't know how to effectively use Mappa YRC, but I think 2P xx Mappa P/K can be an interesting option even without YRC.
I got the idea by watching the mikado hallowen tournament final, Fino vs. Taka(?), the slayer was often doing 2P xx K/P mappa trying to blow up mashing after 2P (2P xx any mappa is never frame-tight, 2P xx P mappa has a 3fr gap).
I've had a bit of success using it while mixing it up with 2P dash bite or 2P xx dandy, it's not THAT good though.
 

[IreulTheSlayer]

2 hours ago, fogelstrom said:

It's on my YT channel but w/e

From what you are writing I'd assume you are not as good as anyone else playing Slayer tbh and last I checked both Hase and F Driver has 'ranks' that I assume is referred to as 26 Dan and above on the arcade ranking.

Too bad I can't smack your ugly stupid face irl. I'd give up my other hand for that (the one I used to wallcrash the pad is broken permanently).

The situation is, every slayer player is equal at the moment - they are all miserable suckers. The difference is only the attitude: ones that suffer and ones that enjoy being floor wept with them.

ED: Once again I perfectly predicted scrub Ky, but still could do absolutely nothing about it - even if I know he's going for 6HS dash in, there is nothing in shitslayer arsenal which can do anything about it. He can keep doing it and win. And he wins, because he has a joker move of dash in 6HS, which is uncounterable by pile bunker, all normals, clashes with DoT and chokagatta for instant Ky freewin dp, and doesn't care about blitz shield either. Too long to bdc, the only way to avoid it is backwards, because of pathetic airdash, too long to be avoided with forward dash, beats all air normals, and once you avoid it he's ready to dash in and do it again till you give up and suicide.

That's the Xrd slayer reality. Even if you are a god, you are a god of combo training dummies.

[fogelstrom]

38 minutes ago, IreulTheSlayer said:

Too bad I can't smack your ugly stupid face irl. I'd give up my other hand for that (the one I used to wallcrash the pad is broken permanently).

The situation is, every slayer player is equal at the moment - they are all miserable suckers. The difference is only the attitude: ones that suffer and ones that enjoy being floor wept with them.

You are obviously just trolling and if I was a moderator for this forum I'd remove your initial post and everything related.
I can't say anyone has wept the floor with me since... ever.

[IreulTheSlayer]

18 minutes ago, fogelstrom said:

You are obviously just trolling and if I was a moderator for this forum I'd remove your initial post and everything related.
I can't say anyone has wept the floor with me since... ever.

Yeah, I've noticed this brain deficiency a lot in moba players. It's called "selective memory".

Everyone who carries this degenerative condition lives in a world where he only loses to self-designated "gods", usually world series players, whom most of them have never met, much less played against. Every defeats from others is getting instantly excused with "I made a mistake there" (though in moba cases usually teammates are blamed), and the defeat, however pathetic, is instantly forgotten - he never lost.

You clearly have it, and oh my god, a most retarded of trolls calling trolling on others. You've done nothing but troll me and look at you talk, what a piece of shit.

[Sashi]

Why are you guys replying to him?

[IreulTheSlayer]

9 minutes ago, Sashi said:

Why are you guys replying to him?

Because they want to troll someone who isn't one of them trolls, quite obviously.

I mean, just ask the next russian player you know. They know me and can confirm most of my story.

[Martikol]

But nobody in this topic except yourself is pissing on your cereal though.

 

[IreulTheSlayer]

3 minutes ago, Martikol said:

But nobody in this topic except yourself is pissing on your cereal though.

 

I've no idea what you mean.

[lofo]

6 hours ago, IreulTheSlayer said:

ED: Once again I perfectly predicted scrub Ky, but still could do absolutely nothing about it - even if I know he's going for 6HS dash in, there is nothing in shitslayer arsenal which can do anything about it. He can keep doing it and win. And he wins, because he has a joker move of dash in 6HS, which is uncounterable by pile bunker, all normals, clashes with DoT and chokagatta for instant Ky freewin dp, and doesn't care about blitz shield either. Too long to bdc, the only way to avoid it is backwards, because of pathetic airdash, too long to be avoided with forward dash, beats all air normals, and once you avoid it he's ready to dash in and do it again till you give up and suicide.

Yeah, Ky 6H is basically a safe jump, so you mostly have to block it like every other safe jump in every fighting game since SF2. If he's doing it meaty, IB and either respect his microdash followup or poke/BDC out, or you can blitz it on reaction since it's 23f startup. If he's not doing it meaty, just stuff it with 5K or 2P or almost anything really, since again it's 23f startup.

These options work with every character in the game, and Ky has had that move since at least vanilla XX, excepting AC.

 

edit - Moreover, even on meaty, if Ky does an early 6H such that only the tail hits, it won't have enough active frames to catch BDC jump FD, whereas if he does a late one, Slayer can do reversal Eternal Wings and Ky can't time it to beat both, since doing it such that it recovers just in time gives him 8f of leniency, which means 6f active+2f recovery, and BDC is 7f invuln. So actually Slayer is one of the only characters in the game who has non-Blitz options against meaty 6H.

[IreulTheSlayer]

2 hours ago, lofo said:

Yeah, Ky 6H is basically a safe jump, so you mostly have to block it like every other safe jump in every fighting game since SF2. If he's doing it meaty, IB and either respect his microdash followup or poke/BDC out, or you can blitz it on reaction since it's 23f startup. If he's not doing it meaty, just stuff it with 5K or 2P or almost anything really, since again it's 23f startup.

These options work with every character in the game, and Ky has had that move since at least vanilla XX, excepting AC.

 

edit - Moreover, even on meaty, if Ky does an early 6H such that only the tail hits, it won't have enough active frames to catch BDC jump FD, whereas if he does a late one, Slayer can do reversal Eternal Wings and Ky can't time it to beat both, since doing it such that it recovers just in time gives him 8f of leniency, which means 6f active+2f recovery, and BDC is 7f invuln. So actually Slayer is one of the only characters in the game who has non-Blitz options against meaty 6H.

5K and 2P are WAY out of range, no possibilities here. Slayer has no ways to advance so Ky has free range choice, no holes here.

If the move hits your guard, you're even further out, and he has special cancel on it to punish every futile poke attempt.

BDC jump is dead in Xrd. It doesn't even avoid Elphelt's kick for me, so it can just be forgotten, as apparently this mechanic no longer exists. Even if, for discussion sake, we pretend BDC wasn't removed, it requires pinpoint accuracy of 1f leeway just to do what, beat a 6HS spamming scrub? Really? Really? Forget it, it's not an option even if it did exist. Same for jump FD, you have to be mister perfect here again just to deal with 6HS scrub, and it's not really doing anything since with jump FD, you're back to square 1, now with less tension, and never enough for ev, which, tadam, also requires you to pull a perfect reversal to beat a simple 6HS scrub. Just no.

Blitz also requires a perfect reversal, which is not reliably attainable by someone who isn't asian. So, I guess, thanks for confirming that Slayer has no options in that situation.

[lofo]

2 hours ago, IreulTheSlayer said:

5K and 2P are WAY out of range, no possibilities here. Slayer has no ways to advance so Ky has free range choice, no holes here.

If the move hits your guard, you're even further out, and he has special cancel on it to punish every futile poke attempt.

BDC jump is dead in Xrd. It doesn't even avoid Elphelt's kick for me, so it can just be forgotten, as apparently this mechanic no longer exists. Even if, for discussion sake, we pretend BDC wasn't removed, it requires pinpoint accuracy of 1f leeway just to do what, beat a 6HS spamming scrub? Really? Really? Forget it, it's not an option even if it did exist. Same for jump FD, you have to be mister perfect here again just to deal with 6HS scrub, and it's not really doing anything since with jump FD, you're back to square 1, now with less tension, and never enough for ev, which, tadam, also requires you to pull a perfect reversal to beat a simple 6HS scrub. Just no.

Blitz also requires a perfect reversal, which is not reliably attainable by someone who isn't asian. So, I guess, thanks for confirming that Slayer has no options in that situation.

So he's doing it far away or what? K Mappa completes in 20f, which is still faster than Ky 6H. If you KNOW exactly what he's going to do, as you claim, that will net you a counterhit into combo.

BDC is probably the best defensive option in the game. It lets you avoid many situations where other characters are forced to block or commit to a risky reversal. It's somewhat hard to use, but thanks to the buffer in Xrd, it's a 3f input to do it in 1f gaps. It's also not actually hard to jump FD out of backdash, you just roll to upback and hit some buttons. You can do it pretty often because it's so low risk if you know where to look.

Blitz also benefits from the buffer. Ignoring your casual racism, it's pretty attainable to hit a 3f window consistently.

Why are we talking about reversals though? Is he doing this 6H while at neutral or while you're knocked down? If he's doing it while you're knocked down, I already told you how to deal with that.

edit - Other stuff that is under 23f: Slayer 6H. Slayer 2D. Slayer 2H. Dead On Time. 

[fogelstrom]

3 hours ago, IreulTheSlayer said:

BDC jump is dead in Xrd. It doesn't even avoid Elphelt's kick for me, so it can just be forgotten, as apparently this mechanic no longer exists. Even if, for discussion sake, we pretend BDC wasn't removed, it requires pinpoint accuracy of 1f leeway just to do what, beat a 6HS spamming scrub? Really? Really? Forget it, it's not an option even if it did exist. Same for jump FD, you have to be mister perfect here again just to deal with 6HS scrub, and it's not really doing anything since with jump FD, you're back to square 1, now with less tension, and never enough for ev, which, tadam, also requires you to pull a perfect reversal to beat a simple 6HS scrub. Just no.

Blitz also requires a perfect reversal, which is not reliably attainable by someone who isn't asian. So, I guess, thanks for confirming that Slayer has no options in that situation.

Just by reading this and you claiming you are as good as any other is clearly not the case.

vs Ky 6H you got backdash, BDJC, BDC bite and blitz. Obviously you have to reversal backdash and that has been the same since the dawn of GG to beat meatys. And the input buffer is 2F in Xrd. If you fail it's just that you suck plain and simple. If you can't even do it against a meaty Elph 5K with 4F active then maybe it's time to uninstall Xrd instead.

There are vids of me playing and beating Loulaim and we play quite even.

[RoBoBOBR]

Input buffer is 3F since the patch =)

[fogelstrom]

3 minutes ago, RoBoBOBR said:

Input buffer is 3F since the patch =)

You're Rus as well Robo. Is this guy for real? Or maybe he's already been excluded for obvious reasons

 

[RoBoBOBR]

Ireul's been whining about SL's low-tierness since AC, with reasons just as inane as presented here. He was less aggressive though. Trying to reason with him is pointless, treat him as entertainment. 

[IreulTheSlayer]

6 hours ago, RoBoBOBR said:

Ireul's been whining about SL's low-tierness since AC, with reasons just as inane as presented here. He was less aggressive though. Trying to reason with him is pointless, treat him as entertainment. 

Of all people, don't listen to Bobr. He's just mad about me OCVing his team twice on major tournaments.

ED: And oh yes he has a history of provoking me too, of all the russian community, he's one of two people I won't shake hands with.

[sren]

7 hours ago, RoBoBOBR said:

Input buffer is 3F since the patch =)

guess input buffer 1F after 1.1, which kinda actually makes most reversal options have a 3F window

[lofo]

oh wow i just looked up some ain vs hase and ireul is right. ain opens with 6H every round and does it over and over, occasionally doing stun edges to chip and stop pokes and there's nothing hase can do. every round goes to time and it's a 10-0 matchup for ky. sorry for doubting you, ireul

[IreulTheSlayer]

13 minutes ago, lofo said:

oh wow i just looked up some ain vs hase and ireul is right. ain opens with 6H every round and does it over and over, occasionally doing stun edges to chip and stop pokes and there's nothing hase can do. every round goes to time and it's a 10-0 matchup for ky. sorry for doubting you, ireul

While high on pointless sarcasm to pretend to be witty, what will you say about this round? 

As I see it, Ky 6HS has practically won it by just 3 uses. Hase did a good job reversal backdashing and going dstep after one of them, which, however, brought him back to square one and getting followed into the defeat.

inb4 dragging random parts of the video out, bear in mind those are casuals, meaning highly likely that only first and last round are played somewhat seriously.

P.S. fogelstrom quit trying to invade my online room, or I'll soon be mad enough to IP-ban you on my router's firewall.