[Xrd] Zato - General discussion and changes list

[Tomo009]

What are some good blockstrings to use? I always get people chicken blocking or mashing through my stuff.

My BnB Combo/Blockstring in one is(2K) or (5K 5S) 2S 5HS xx 22HS

 

You can RRC it and keep up pressure, you can call Eddie under the drill  and Nobiru or whatever, you can call Eddie at yourself to confuse your opponent and get Eddie out with advantage as they probably try to kill Eddie popping underneath them.

[Rasec]

What are you guys doing against online Chipp's? 

[BAP04]

So I'm looking for advice because I'm getting slaughtered online as zato because I'm doing something wrong. I understand his oki game (even though mine has holes) but I struggle in neutral and high pressure situations. How do I deal with pressure from characters that can stay on me in the corner. How do I make people respect me and stop jumping in and air dashing over eddie/drills? I try using 6HS, 6P, Nobiru and 2HS but I usually miss or get stuffed. Maybe I'm just mucking up the timing. Any help is appreciated. I've learned a lot from dustloop.

[president]

High pressure situations: you're Zato, don't get into that situation. Try to blitz shield / mash out / try to clip bad longrange pokes with amorphous etc, do dumb stuff. If you die for it it doesn't make that much of a difference, if you get a lucky throw you can steal the round.

 

As for people going in on you: It sounds like you are not using BTL at all. It's overall an important move and, in combination with nobiru, easily Zatos best anti-air. If you get stressed by people going in on you make it so there's nothing to go in on. If there's no projectile threat (Millia pin, quick shuriken, ...) and you don't wanna play the reaction game you can also just time your stuff so that the active frames never stop. Flail around that 6H and fill the gaps with Nobiru, no jumpins allowed and especially no airdashes; however you empty your Eddie bar without advancing the screen or getting momentum off it and what usually comes after that isn't so pretty.

 

Having people airdash over drills is not "wrong" on Zatos part. It helps when you're thinking about situations where you protect Eddie (you place the drill between him and your opponent) and where Eddie protects you (enemy airdashes over the drill, he greets them with an anti-air). Eating a CH nobiru on IAD height is usually very painful and nets you rounds for the raw damage alone. Back in AC getting hit by that was quite literally the worst thing you could do.

[BAP04]

Yeah I really never thought about using BTL in that way. I guess I just need to learn how to use eddie AND Zato together to protect each other which in turn ensures that i dont get bodied in the corner. So that answers that also wanted to ask (kind of a weird question but) what kind of things should you do after making the opponed block 2S into HS Drill? And what should you do when HS Drill hits? Summon eddie and go for buzz saw then dash in for pressure?

[Mr.Biscuits]

Instant block and 1 frame jump out or try to 5p/2p out of pressure. If they're iading in and punishing your drill attempts that means you're being predictable with your strings. Instead of going for drill just do 236S and catch them iading in. 6P works as well but requires some timing since it's not very fast but it does have upper body invul. The best way to deal with iads is to air throw but that takes practice to react to air dashes and scoop them. Just keep playing, the more you play the more your game becomes tighter.

[BAP04]

Alright, I think I understand what to do now. I'll just watch more ogawa videos, play more games, and practice. Thanks a lot for the advice. Hopefully I get a little less bodied by elphelts now lol.

[Mr.Biscuits]

I'm working on the Elphelt matchup myself. Grenade makes it very hard for you to summon safely in neutral. I recommend you play neutral and secure the knockdown before trying to summon. Her 2p is very fast and mashable so she can safely mash out summons from puddle and in blockstrings. Once you knock her down it becomes a nightmare for her since she has no wakeup outside of cake super. Most of the time just settle for what you can get. Meaning let the shadow get hit and punish her with a knockdown use your meter to extend pressure for example 22H RC.

[xXavierx]

An hour and forty minute video of Ogawa vs Sin for those looking for match up things:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdL7IozDsEU

No match-up thread for Sin yet so figured I'd throw it here for now. 
 

[Coffeeling]

Japan, y u use potatoes to stream ;_;

[president]

BAP04 inspired me to go to the lab and see just how much reason there is not to get hit by ch nobiru

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFH0ikkgybU  | Takes roughly 70% Eddie bar, Zato can be about half screen away if he jumps forward into SG. Getting a CH like that with a remote puddle summon is rather likely.

 

Now this really feels like AC Eddie. I'll test this on the entire cast, I suspect most will need an RC extender to get stunned.

[felirx]

These are my basic observations on the Elphet matchup. Mind you I'm pretty new to Zato.

 

You have to be really careful with Elphets 5HS when you start playing against her.

If you try to summon after most blockstrings, or after a Drill, 5HS will tag you every time if you're at about midscreen or closer.

 

Ducking under 5HS let's you do 2s counterhit -> far drill at the right ranges if she's too trigger happy with 5HS.

Her antiair is pretty decent.

Don't let her freely Bridal Express you from the air. This is up to +9 at the right spacing, giving free pressure. However, If you manage to move forward just the right amount, you can get a throw punish every time since It's up to -5 on point blank hit. 2HS works if you do it early enough, but it either loses or trades if the Bridal Express is already going. Air throwing with the right timing works.

Her j.D has insane range when done defensively. Has landing recovery of course.

If she tries anything silly with the Miss Travailler dashes to cross you over, you can throw every time on reaction or read.

Miss Travailler shotgun shots in the corner...

 

For grenade, it's annoying. Really, really annoying.

[Synyster17]

yo guys know that we could use some threads like a combo thread and some MU threads. anyone want to make them or should i. 

[LearningToPlay]

Just want to say that while Zato/Eddie still has to be the coolest character design, visually I'm a little disheartened. I am really sad that Eddie/Shadow is so much less dragony/demonish now. Too many shark moves. And even Eddie in shadow person form looks less like a dragon than before... his head is too triangular/angular. Oh well, just had to vent that.  

[president]

You prefer Eddies old dolphin moves over the shark design?

[xXavierx]

But he has the same voice as Dio. What more could you want? 

[Rhythmic]

But he has the same voice as Dio. What more could you want? 

he doesn't yell "ZA WARUDO" when danger time activates

 

0/10 would not play

[Antihero11]

Just want to say that while Zato/Eddie still has to be the coolest character design, visually I'm a little disheartened. I am really sad that Eddie/Shadow is so much less dragony/demonish now. Too many shark moves. And even Eddie in shadow person form looks less like a dragon than before... his head is too triangular/angular. Oh well, just had to vent that.  

 

I actually agree with this, I remember a great combo video from AC which convinced me to pick up Zato/Eddie. And I feel he looks less demonic/evil now. Might be because Zato has been revived. But it's combos and mixups are still extremely stylish. I'm waiting on a great NETA combo video for Xrd. But it seems like no one makes them. Not yet anyways.

By the way, I wanted some general advice about where to start with Zato. I've never used negative edging and would like some help learning the character. Starting off with basic blockstrings/gameplan, then moving on to the more intermediate stuff. I mained Terumi/Hazama in BB, dabbled with Arakune in CT. And used Gordeau in UNIEL. So I feel my background is lacking. I was one of the better Terumi players though. If you have any advice or skills I can transfer over, please let me know. I'm very excited to get started with this amazing character. His backstory has to be the best of any fighting game character in my opinion!

 

[Rele]

His backstory has to be the best of any fighting game character in my opinion!

Got killed by Millia

acualy not daed

x n

[Gasaraki]

I'm just asking to check, but in your guys experience, what are some things that Pot tends to catch you out of or cause some annoyance or ANYTHING that has any kind of meaning that isn't just blocking everything perfectly? I'm asking as Pot player

[LearningToPlay]

You prefer Eddies old dolphin moves over the shark design?

Well maybe not that one, but I like the old Slash Eddie attack much better than the new shark... weirdly enough that was possibly _the_ move that made me want to play the character. I like the between-wins-cutscene Eddie that looks like a black dragon. EDIT: The icon/avatar that BAP04 is using... that Eddie is my favorite right there. 

 

It just seems like he went from half dragon-demon and half shark animations to 75% shark animations, with only standing Slash really looking like a dragon to me. 

[Antihero11]

Any general tips on picking up Zato? Or guides you guys could point me in the direction of?

[LearningToPlay]

And I feel he looks less demonic/evil now. Might be because Zato has been revived. 

 

By the way, I wanted some general advice about where to start with Zato. 

 

 

-- Glad I'm not the only one that noticed!

 

As for general advice, I'm no expert by far. But I read that this old old (not Xrd, but still helps) guide by Poon is super good for getting into the right mindset. I've been going through it a little again myself. 

 

http://www.dustloop....?showtopic=1791

[Kyosuke Kagami]

Any general tips on picking up Zato? Or guides you guys could point me in the direction of?

I'm also relearning Zato, but so far I can advise you:

 

-Be TOO patient. Getting some basic shit with him can be frustrating.

-Learn to negative edge when summoning Eddie. It really sucks when you get the wrong attack (i.e. Mawaru insteado of Tobiru) because you forget Eddie only unleashes attacks when you release a button.

-Don't summon Eddie "just because". Do it in situations where rival will be forced to block or try to reversal.

-PRAISE ZATO SAMA~

[Kane-Z]

Another question for more experienced Zato players. What do you guys usually do if the opponent blocks our first mixup? I assume its better not to use Mawaru again since the Eddie gauge is past the halfway point and just unsummon Eddie right away and start again? Like I been working on this string but I'm not sure how honest it is:

Knockdown > summon > -K > dash > j.LK > dj.LK-HS or dj.S-HS (opponent blocks right here) > -S > land > 2P > 2K > f.S > 2S > S Drill > unsummon > YRC > summon Nobiru from the drill puddle > dash 2K > -K > Start mix up again.

Of course I would insert a -P > cmd grab now and then after the first mixup gets blocked. Do I have the right idea or would most experienced players easily escape? Basically, how do I make them respect our blockstrings and stop the mashing?

So that answers that also wanted to ask (kind of a weird question but) what kind of things should you do after making the opponed block 2S into HS Drill? And what should you do when HS Drill hits? Summon eddie and go for buzz saw then dash in for pressure?

I would like to ask that question as well. I'm guessing we just summon Nobiru from the puddle under the opponent but we have to be careful not to become too predictable. If they wake up pressing any buttons it should be a free counter hit.

I'm trying to capitalize more on CH Nobirus from mid screen as well.