[Xrd] Zato - General discussion and changes list

[Antihero11]

I was thinking about creating a combo thread by translating the combos from the jpn wiki. Their wiki page is actually fairly complete right now and even ranks Zato's combos in terms of usefulness. However, I'm not sure if Biscuits has anything else planned for it but at least we would get some kinda of discussion going.

I think using the Wiki is the best idea. I'm lost as to what combos are most practical, and which aren't. And what ones to use in different situations.

I know going for knockdowns is one of the most important things, but other than that, I'm kind of lost.

 

[wiredgod]

I think we should have a combo thread,  but it should be done a bit differently.  Zato's combos in an actual match are going to have to adapt due to all the different spacing possibilities with both you and your puppet.   I recommend we break up the combo thread into four parts: 1) combos withou Eddie leading into a knockdown; 2) mixup options on summon oki and combos following the mixup; 3) combo fragments in case you need to improvise; 4) anything else that doesn't fit in the prior three such as YRC combos.

 

Any thoughts, feedback, criticisms?

[Coffeeling]

Call the combo fragments "patterns" or something. And don't organize combos so you have metered and meterless options mixed in. It's hell to parse (for me at least). Much prefer organisation like:

Meterless:
Low

Anywhere

Corner

 

25% tension, Eddie:
Low

Jump-in

Corner

 

etc.

[Renly]

I switched to stick from pad and I'm losing almost every match where before I was almost undefeated.

[Dragonthorn]

Basic corner mix up to drill unblockable:

Starter:

-k- on wake up

Mix-up:

(High) jump in, jk, j[k], -k-, 5[d], 6[p], -d-, 5s, 22s, fly, js (when mine activates)

(Low) jump in, 5[k], 5s, -k-, 5[d], 6[p], -d-, 5s, 22s, fly, js (when mine activates)

For those looking for a guide of sorts, just read the #reload Eddie guide by Teyah. A lot of the notes there are applicable to this version of Eddie/Zato.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Antihero11]

I switched to stick from pad and I'm losing almost every match where before I was almost undefeated.

I also switched to stick from pad for this game. And my best advice is to hit training mode and challenge mode relentlessly. Until you can do them equal or better on stick.

I don't know how you were negative edging on pad. It's impossible for me. But I've been training the stick daily for over a week now, and beginning to get the hang of it. IAD's are still impossible for me to perform for some reason. Everything else comes pretty natural.

And yeah, for the combo thread, I would prefer three sections:

1. Basic combos leading to knockdown (Without eddie)

2. Mixups for when you set them up with Eddie.

3. Maybe a section on hit confirms off of common starters.

That's the best way I can think of anyways. But I've been playing this character for a week, so I'm hardly the authority on the subject. Just a beginner's opinion though!

 

[Renly]

I also switched to stick from pad for this game. And my best advice is to hit training mode and challenge mode relentlessly. Until you can do them equal or better on stick.

I don't know how you were negative edging on pad. It's impossible for me. But I've been training the stick daily for over a week now, and beginning to get the hang of it. IAD's are still impossible for me to perform for some reason. Everything else comes pretty natural.

And yeah, for the combo thread, I would prefer three sections:

1. Basic combos leading to knockdown (Without eddie)

2. Mixups for when you set them up with Eddie.

3. Maybe a section on hit confirms off of common starters.

That's the best way I can think of anyways. But I've been playing this character for a week, so I'm hardly the authority on the subject. Just a beginner's opinion though!

 

I was winning without combos lol. I wasn't using negative edge. The good thing is that I can do his combos on the stick. The bad news is I'm thinking about the stick too much that I can't focus on my neutral or even the combos when I'm facing an opponent. I've been hitting training but I get pissed now because it took me a while to start winning like i went  0-50 before I got a win and then I was winning like 95% of the time. Now I'm barely winning again. It's discouraging.

[uberdeluxe]

With Zato, watching videos and then grinding matches is a much better use of time than anything you could read IMO. Nothing you can read will make you good at negative edge, you just need to get used to the character by playing a lot.

[felirx]

Learn basic j.k 2k... and j.k dj.k/s... mixup in to mawaru hitconfirm. Basic command throw setups. Confirm Eddie hits into a knockdown and unsummon.

After that, grind matchups and learn to play the neutral has been my plan. Combos won't win games if you can't win neutral.

[Mr.Biscuits]

Someone is helping to translate some of the JP BBS for combos and such. I will post it when it's done so please hold on tight! 

[xXavierx]

wut do against Ram? I don't like this match up 

[Mr.Biscuits]

Rush her down. You can not let her set swords or you will have a very tough time. 

[president]

Rushing her down while she's not setting swords is difficult due to sword normals being really good against Zato overall. Matchup is hard.

[wiredgod]

Rushing her down while she's not setting swords is difficult due to sword normals being really good against Zato overall. Matchup is hard.

 

Watch Ogawa's latest matches.  He played a Ram player and was using 214K to nullify the swords' ability to control space.  That move is so useful

[xXavierx]

Watch Ogawa's latest matches.  He played a Ram player and was using 214K to nullify the swords' ability to control space.  That move is so useful

 

Yeah I just saw that. As a new Zato, I feel like 214k is one of his weirder tools to master. Guess I'll have to really study that set of matches more closely. 

[Ryd']

I don't think I've seen this posted in the thread, so I went through and tested 1-hit Shadow Gallery setups off the corner unblockable:

 

jH+drill, SG(1), 66~5D~6, 6P(2), cS, 66, cS, 5HS(3), 22HS

 

Something to note is that on certain characters, the ease of getting a 1-hit depends heavily on whether the high or low opens up the opponent.  Generally, being opened up by the low makes it a lot easier due to expanding hitboxes letting you tag with jH without getting so close that SG hits twice.  Being opened up by the high makes it a lot harder to get on some characters, and seemingly impossible on others. 

 

Tested on low-blocking dummies:

 

Easy (fair amount of leeway with spacing):

May

I-No

Elphelt

Ky

Venom

Sin

Ramlethal

 

Difficult (have to clip with the edge of jH):

Chipp

Sol

Slayer

Zato

 

Impossible(?)

Faust

Bedman

Potemkin

Millia

Axl

 

I don't have Leo unlocked, so I can't test it on him.

 

I won't claim to have perfected the setup yet, but I wasn't able to get it to connect properly on the last group at all; jH would either whiff, or they'd get hit by both SG hits.  Some of them are understandable (Faust, Bedman, Pot), though Millia surprised me.  I haven't seen any footage of anyone landing it on those characters, though.  As previously stated, it can connect if they block high on wakeup, but you have to be noticeably further away to make it work, which would seriously hurt its effectiveness against anyone who's paying attention to your spacing.

 

It's definitely worth learning for the characters that it does work on, as it seems to be the only way to get a meterless knockdown off the unblockable, and lasts long enough that Eddie is available again after the 22HS.

[huber]

 

Tested on low-blocking dummies:

 

Easy (fair amount of leeway with spacing):

May

I-No

Elphelt

Ky

Venom

Sin

Ramlethal

 

 

it really is so easy on these characters lmao.  it's cheap as hell.  ty

[president]

Now that's awkward. I got it working on a lowblocking Faust earlier today but now I can't reproduce it at all. It's definitely possible on him but something's fishy here.

 

I also tested on Leo, it's super free.

[Ryd']

More corner fun.  Off both throw and 22S, you can do an immediate RC, pull out Eddie (H), and go into 2 reps Shadow Gallery loop->unblockable setup.  Does around 150ish off throw, 200ish off drill iirc.  Doesn't work with Damned Fang since that leaves Zato airborne.  Also works if Eddie is already out, but if he's already performed an attack, you can generally only get 1 SG rep if you want to have enough meter to unblockable afterward.

 

Throw RC is more practical since you have a bit of time to confirm, and makes his basic throw a lot more threatening.  Not sure if this is universal yet, only tested on Elphelt.

[president]

If you RC Damned Fang on the very first possible frame it leaves Zato grounded. I've been using this myself to go into SG loop + unblockable, it's pretty good.

 

Edit: Here's a shakycam recording of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r16Ut2CA8o

[adrua]

Is there a way to set the training dummy to test unblockables?? I tried setting it on "low block after first hit" but it always block de J.HS + Drill after the setup.

[president]

Record Zato doing the unblockable then try to block it yourself

[Kane-Z]

A practical way to go into the SG loop from a Mawaru mix up:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM0gFS1t1Jk

Sorry if I mistimed the first unblockable. I was in a bit of a hurry to upload.

[xXavierx]

What's the advantage of using that over the dust wall stick entry to the unblockable? More damage on a hit with high eddie guage? 

[Kane-Z]

Damage seems to be pretty much the same. It's just another way to go into Shadow Gallery loop. Feels a bit more practical since it starts from our mix up and we don't need to burn meter.