JG Posted June 3, 2015 Posted June 3, 2015 I never expected that you could use barrier while flying.https://youtu.be/dUH7kX4iWEA
tastylumpia Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 1 hit SG is character hurtbox specific. Someone posted a list a few pages back, here's a repost. It's not 100% accurate because I've definitely connected on Faust for example, but still a decent guideline. Keep in mind crouching and standing hurtbox is different. Easy (fair amount of leeway with spacing): May I-No Elphelt Ky Venom Sin Ramlethal Difficult (have to clip with the edge of jH): Chipp Sol Slayer Zato Impossible(?) Faust Bedman Potemkin Millia Axl Also you can combo into 1h SG after a damned fang in the corner by doing 623S (early -D-), 5p (JC) SG. Basically you're linking 5p after the grab then tigerkneeing the shadow gallery while the big drill holds them in place. Can someone please explain why Zato players use [5P, 2K, 22S] after [5D, 66, unsummon] in the corner? Why not [5P, 5HS, 22S] for example, which is more reliable, deals more damage and can be used on different distances? Thanks in advance. Ogawa said on twitter that he does the shortest knockdown combo to prevent building the opponent too much meter/burst. If they're far from burst and you're close to killing you definitely want to do as long a combo as possible or just go into an unblockable.
Ryd' Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 That list was for crouching. 1-hit should be possible on all characters standing, but typically requires wider spacing for the fatties which created its own set of problems (spacing made it look pretty obvious, and crouch blocking at that spacing would make the jH whiff, so no unblockable into 1-hit). I was never able to get it to connect on crouching Faust (but could pull it off on standing), but I won't claim to have done strenuous testing; there might be a pixel-perfect spacing where it'll work, but I couldn't find it.
tastylumpia Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 Just realized that list was for 1.0. In 1.1 you can hit tip range j.K on crouching Faust to combo into the 1-hit at a spacing that probably would've whiffed in 1.0, thanks to the buff on the downward hitbox.
Paraselene Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 Judging by this video most of Zatos routes that lead to UB are now gone thanks to new 5d [6]. Anyone has any idea what will replace them? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSbYrDquk0s
xXavierx Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 I was under the impression that the new 5d(6) animation doesn't change anything. Just like an added visual effect before you can start pressing buttons again.
Starfire Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 If the opponent is in an airborne state where 2D and 22S will not knockdown, then something like 5D6, TK SG (1), -S-, SG (2) into wallslump might work. It would have the downside that you need over a Nobiru's worth of shadow gauge, so getting an UB off the second mixup in the corner is likely impossible, at least using that route. It also doesn't look like there's a huge amount of untechable time after the dust (in the video several of the combos went black), so getting the TK SG might not be a given either. I think the fastest TK SG is about 19f or 20f, so it isn't the fastest of attacks.
Paraselene Posted June 8, 2015 Posted June 8, 2015 I was under the impression that the new 5d(6) animation doesn't change anything. Just like an added visual effect before you can start pressing buttons again. The way it works now is that you can't do more than 1 attack after 5d [6] otherwise it black beats it seems.stuff We need some tweets from Ogawa, I hope he'll figure it out. Did he even go to loketest?
Antihero11 Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 To clarify, the whole sequence is 236, press S (unsummon starts), immediately release S (nobiru starts), nobiru hits, unsummon activates. It should be possible to do this with any button, but I think it's easier to just tap S as quickly as possible, rather than trying to press HS and release S at the same time. Then again, maybe something like 2, 236[H] + -S- would be reliable as well, I need to test! The closer the nobiru impact is to the unsummon activation, the bigger the advantage, up to a maximum of about +9 or +10. I can't think of an easy way to test which of those two is correct. We just need to find the most reliable input to start nobiru at the same frame with unsummon, or possibly one frame after. 236S with the shortest possible S press is the one I've been using, but maybe there are easier ones. EDIT: If the situation is +10, then maybe 13f moves like 6P and 5H would interrupt a 3f jump startup like Sol's such that the opponent is still on the ground. If that is possible, I think it would confirm that it's +10. I think it's important to note that 236S will not perform Nobiru before the unsummon unless it is used to cancel another move's animation. For example, If you do 2k > 236S and release S immediately, it will release nobiru and you get the unsummon. But if the shadow is out, and you just input 236S and release S immediately, you don't get nobiru. Or at least that's my experience from testing. Very fascinating, as I can't find the reason for this contradiction. And on a side note: I hope they don't take out Zato's followups from 6D, I'm sure we'll find another unblockable route, but I enjoy it as is now.
ikebukuro83 Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 Quick question guys .. When you are in the ground with BTL and eddie already out, i noticed lots of zato do release -P- or -S- yrc , come out of the ground and continue to press. Whenever i try to yrc i get an rc that consume 2 bars .. How do you get yrc ? I notice when i cancel a BTL i get yrc .. When i cancel a released eddie attack i get an rc .. What is the input ? Thx !
Blackhearth Posted June 13, 2015 Posted June 13, 2015 People I need a little help with Zato-1 with the unsummon during dust. I tried several hundred attempts but failed miserably, I feel zato is glued to the ground or he unsummon with a slowspoke speed. I saw tons of videos and I saw that there is a dash involved in there (kinda similar to slayer pile bunker loop)but is immediately cancel with the unsummon animation giving enough time to land 5p,2p and start all over with a dust, summon or whatever you want. What is the trick behind it?
ikebukuro83 Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 People I need a little help with Zato-1 with the unsummon during dust. I tried several hundred attempts but failed miserably, I feel zato is glued to the ground or he unsummon with a slowspoke speed. I saw tons of videos and I saw that there is a dash involved in there (kinda similar to slayer pile bunker loop)but is immediately cancel with the unsummon animation giving enough time to land 5p,2p and start all over with a dust, summon or whatever you want. What is the trick behind it? You have to unsummon just after the dust hit, if you wait to see the dash it's already too late.
Antihero11 Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 Quick question guys .. When you are in the ground with BTL and eddie already out, i noticed lots of zato do release -P- or -S- yrc , come out of the ground and continue to press. Whenever i try to yrc i get an rc that consume 2 bars .. How do you get yrc ? I notice when i cancel a BTL i get yrc .. When i cancel a released eddie attack i get an rc .. What is the input ? Thx ! This is a trick AKA goes over in one of his videos on his twitch channel. Basically, if you roman cancel off of a shadow attack, you get a red roman cancel because the player is in blockstun. The trick is to YRC just before the shadow hits the opponent. It's actually pretty easy. So let's say I'm using BTL and the shadow is right by the opponent. You want to release S or P, then immediately YRC BTL before the attack actually hits the opponent. In a way, you're cheating the system since the attack hits during the YRC animation and you practically get a red roman cancel for 25 tension. I hope that makes sense, let me know if you have any questions.
ikebukuro83 Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 I hope that makes sense, let me know if you have any questions. Thank you ... I was able to do it but i still have some execution issues .. I often get the purple cancel.
9:02 PM Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 People I need a little help with Zato-1 with the unsummon during dust. I tried several hundred attempts but failed miserably, I feel zato is glued to the ground or he unsummon with a slowspoke speed. I saw tons of videos and I saw that there is a dash involved in there (kinda similar to slayer pile bunker loop)but is immediately cancel with the unsummon animation giving enough time to land 5p,2p and start all over with a dust, summon or whatever you want. What is the trick behind it? The way the dust follow up works is that if you hold 6 to get the horizontal cinematic, your dust becomes dash cancellable. If you try to go straight from 5D, 6, to the unsummon, you're still in the recovery of your dust, which is not special cancellable. You have to continue holding forward after the cinematic ends for a split second to get a really short dash cancel from Zato (the point is that it's less frames than the dust recovery).Here's a video of the inputs if that helps. I guess it doesn't show it that well, but during the cinematic of the dust, I'm holding forward the whole time until you see the 236 input. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h77LPuK0-x8 Also all Zato players be advised, the frame data on the DL wiki AND the official 4gamer page said 6K was even on block, but it's actually -5. I edited the DL wiki already, but if anyone was operating on the assumption that the old data was correct, you may need to adjust your play accordingly.
Elemenope Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 Also all Zato players be advised, the frame data on the DL wiki AND the official 4gamer page said 6K was even on block, but it's actually -5. I edited the DL wiki already, but if anyone was operating on the assumption that the old data was correct, you may need to adjust your play accordingly. If it's -5, could you figure out what the actual active and recovery frames are then? Because otherwise, it's impossible for it to be -5.
9:02 PM Posted June 15, 2015 Posted June 15, 2015 If it's -5, could you figure out what the actual active and recovery frames are then? Because otherwise, it's impossible for it to be -5. Too much work. I might go back and do that if someone provides me a compelling reason to do so, but until then, go into training mode, pick two Zatos and record the dummy doing 6k then neutral jumping. Block the 6k, jump, and be amazed as you land five frames before he does. One guard jump is like the stone age fool proof method of getting frame data on anything you can't jump cancel.
Paraselene Posted June 19, 2015 Posted June 19, 2015 Looks like second loketest 5d [6] in the corner works the same way like it does in the current version. Crisis averted.
Antihero11 Posted June 24, 2015 Posted June 24, 2015 Phew. I honestly don't feel Zato-1 will ever get nerfed into the ground. He'll never "truly" be overpowered since his weaknesses make him "fair" for the rest of the cast.
Antihero11 Posted August 2, 2015 Posted August 2, 2015 Hello all, sorry for the double post, but I was wondering if someone could offer my advice in this thread. I've reached a "stale" part of my game, and I want to practice some new practical techniques to improve my GG/Zato-1 play.I normally practice unblockables, sandwich pressure, flight hit confirms into knockdown, and corner mawaru fuzzy mixups.Any other techniques or advice for stuff I can practice in training mode to improve my game?BUMP
huber Posted August 8, 2015 Posted August 8, 2015 dead angle baits/punishes. dp punishes. optimized shadow gallery loop stuff. throw RC combos.
9:02 PM Posted August 9, 2015 Posted August 9, 2015 Unsummon -> resummon on offense, using BTL/shadow H to keep your shadow neutral going against projectiles.
Antihero11 Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 Thanks for the feedback. I've been working on optimal shadow gallery loops. And I use BTL and Shadow H pretty often in neutral, it helps tremendously.I think what I'll focus on is baiting reversals and dead angles. What do you guys punish dead angles with? Simple 5P > 2D (knockdown). Or do you have something more fancy?
huber Posted August 11, 2015 Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) I spend a lot of time trying to find good punishes for the reversals people do vs eddie. here's what I got so far. I want to be able to unblockable or at least resummon after someone has DP'd little eddie. Hard to find stuff vs some DPs. I had a lot more videos I wanted to make but my computer broke. Was working on a big tutorial and a bunch of other shit. oh well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRKUkHQ6HHY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ies1ly_Wwt4 Edited August 11, 2015 by huber
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