[Xrd] Bedman Gameplay Discussion

[Azzal]

Yeah he's the first one too, maybe because we play very often. :p

 

It seems I cannot do anything, but i'll try jumping yeah. But as it is a projectile, I'm not even on counter state like a normal BS, but he gains immediate recover, that's why he can grab me as soon as I teleport.

[NecroTheReaper]

Then also remember that YRC WILL eat your opponents inputs, so if he's waking up, throw out a YRC and make his Blitz not come out completely, giving you a free combo

[Tiamat]

I've had people blitz Task A' before.  It's not that hard to deal with it.  Just j.D and you CH their grab attempt.  Even on blitz you are still at at advantage frames wise, it's just that you're so close that they can grab you but you can't grab them, that's just how it works after the blitz.  

[NecroTheReaper]

Anyone have some nice and easy tech traps? One fun one I discovered was grab>5K>f.S>j.S>j.236S>land>airgrab. I remember Tiamat talking about one using the usual throw combo, and I also experimented with OTG>air throw as well

[Tiamat]

you can sometimes get midscreen j.PP 236S > air grab

[sterkenburger]

j.236S tech trap is kinda height specific so it's kinda meh .. and it's also fairly obvious.... As for OTG the best one is probably after Task B , 2K > c.S Deja vu Task B in the corner.

 

Out of curiousity , what kind of neutral game you generally run ?

[NecroTheReaper]

Tk task B in 1.1 will make it a lot more subtle since we can convert into combos off tk task B in the corner.

I play very... high? I really use a lot of superjumps since we get our movement options for free. A lot of characters cant do much to Bedman because of that, so I just vary my uses of float directions and task uses, though I do use air task C more than I should because... well its been working

[Zephyrion22]

j.236S tech trap is kinda height specific so it's kinda meh .. and it's also fairly obvious.... As for OTG the best one is probably after Task B , 2K > c.S Deja vu Task B in the corner.

 

Out of curiousity , what kind of neutral game you generally run ?

 

Personally, I tend to play keep away, annoying people with 236P/j236P and walking back and forth, until they try to approach, and then try to stuff them with 6Ps and other normals , or whiff punish with TK task B (always with 25 tension or more if I ever screw up my timing or something) and work from there. Of course I'll play a lot more agressively against characters who can counter this strategy easily (hello Ramlethal...) and try to cover my approach with task A when possible and inch my way through !

[sterkenburger]

Personally, I tend to play keep away, annoying people with 236P/j236P and walking back and forth, until they try to approach, and then try to stuff them with 6Ps and other normals , or whiff punish with TK task B (always with 25 tension or more if I ever screw up my timing or something) and work from there. Of course I'll play a lot more agressively against characters who can counter this strategy easily (hello Ramlethal...) and try to cover my approach with task A when possible and inch my way through !

 

Yeah that's what i usually go with as well , just annoy them with Task A until they try to go in and catch them. Floating too aggressively , using Air task C alot often result in me getting shut down with a good anti air so i rarely use it, only from time to time as a surprise factor. I do 6 float f.S counter hit fishing a lot after task a though since it's fairly rewarding and safe if you have 25 tension to YRC your 2nd task A and react to their IAD or low profile

[Lynxfort]

TB maybe is Bedman's best special that gains tension..so here is my idea " I didn't read all the pages so sorry if it posted before"  Do any combo leads to T.B..then do a mix-ups after it that combo to another TB (e.g jumping to opp back "9" ..float  then 1 jK or 2K.5H.TB ) ..now you have more than 25% meter for DVB YRC mix-ups ..

[sterkenburger]

Brace yourself, 1.1 is coming ( tomorrow )

[NecroTheReaper]

But... but I have English version. Please tell me I get to wreck with everyone else

[Azzal]

US version also, hope the patch is for this version too.

Damn, BEdman 1.1 is looking good! 

[GcYoshi13]

Patch dropped for JP versions so I'll update some notes I found here in case you guys were curious. Some of these are know already but it's just to clarify:

 

- Bedman's task A' (and DV version) is IMMUNE to the blitzshield projectile stagger changes. Bedman will NOT stagger if he does point blank task A' and the opponent blitz shield's it.

 

- Task B has much more hitstun, but at higher distances will not guarantee the hard knockdown (especially with large combo proration). For example, midscreen dust combos ending in Task B more or less work like they did before.

 

- Task C will cause guaranteed hard knockdown now.

 

- Full Screen non CH 3H can only be followed-up by Task B.  Converting off of 3H even in CH is very difficult because Bedman's air dash + his normal hitstun doesn't allow him to get a good confirm. Most reliable confirm off of CH 3H is just j.S into Task B. CH 2H has better options.

 

- 2S will gatling into 2D. Far 5S will not however. 5S->2S->2D works well, but distance should be evaluated as 2D may whiff if opponent is already too far.

 

- 6H's frame nerfs is noticeable. However where it got nerfed is a bit strange. 6H will still teleport just as fast as the old one, but the active frames come out much later post teleport.

 

- Task C off of far 2H may need to be delayed on smaller characters so the bed drop part of Task C doesn't whiff. This is important for combos such as close 5S, far 5S, 2S, 2H, Task C.

 

- 5D corner follow up is now dash friendly. You can cancel your 5D dash follow up into anything. Note that 6H is no longer a good option for corner follow-ups anymore. Best one is likely to be 6P, close 5S, 6P.

 

- Midscreen 5D can now be followed up by dash into c.5S (since Bedman's dash after 5D is cancel-able now). You can do 5D, dash, c.5S, into Task C midscreen.

 

- Dash should be used the same way as before. Seems more reliable, but remember that he warps further away from the opponent now, so you are unlikely to immediately punish.

 

 

Will update a bit more as I progress.

 

Edit:

 

- Axl's hitbox is strange. He flipped out of Task C a few times. Maybe because he's super heavy?

[NecroTheReaper]

For the 6H buff/nerf/whatever, does it feel like its total duration is the same, just some frames swapped around?

Also, corner dust, wouldnt c.S>f.S be better, both for damage and reliability?

[Tiamat]

what about the j.S > j.P gatling, is that possible now?  

[GcYoshi13]

For the 6H buff/nerf/whatever, does it feel like its total duration is the same, just some frames swapped around?

Also, corner dust, wouldnt c.S>f.S be better, both for damage and reliability?

Frames swapped around.

 

visually, you can kind of see Bedman's bed arms clamp down now.

 

Gameplay-wise, I've been hit a few times after the teleport but before the 6H active frames came up.

 

For your 2nd question, probably, but maybe not enough hitstun. I was trying to do the combos in some combo videos and they did 6P->5S.

 

 

 

what about the j.S > j.P gatling, is that possible now?  

 

Yes.

[NecroTheReaper]

Well c.S>f.S is a combo I can do currently so I was curious if anythimg else had changed. So far, exclyding 6H followups, c.S>6P>c.S, c.S>6P, and c.S>f.S all combo into A' after wallstick.

How about those midscreen dust dash>task c combos in that video a while back? They consistent? Screw US, I have too many question that regions are holding from me

[GcYoshi13]

Well c.S>f.S is a combo I can do currently so I was curious if anythimg else had changed. So far, exclyding 6H followups, c.S>6P>c.S, c.S>6P, and c.S>f.S all combo into A' after wallstick.

How about those midscreen dust dash>task c combos in that video a while back? They consistent? Screw US, I have too many question that regions are holding from me

 

c.S->f.S still works fine. You can adjust your distance too if you wish to give up corner or not.

 

5D into Task C still works midscreen but it's very difficult. Have hold forward after 5D then do Task C. Opponent can quickly recover, but in a match, it may have more lee way if they don't tech perfectly (aka fraudulant gray combo).

 

Those swag combos are very hard (the link to get a non OTG after task C is very hard it seems).

 

On a cool note however, Bedman doesn't have opt for a super jump confirm off of midscreen 5D anymore . 5D->Dash->c.S works now. It's pretty neat.

[Lynxfort]

- 6H's frame nerfs is noticeable. However where it got nerfed is a bit strange. 6H will still teleport just as fast as the old one, but the active frames come out much later post teleport.

 

And the Throw invincibility ??  is he hard  to throw when you do the cross up setups ??

[WonderTonic]

Messing with 6H it feels like any additional frames were added during the end of tele part of 6H as Yoshit said

 

The down side its a bit easier to react to when using it as a cross up.  It is a bit tricky to throw bedman out of it, but you can throw him just before the attack lands so i think its utility as a meaty attack remains pretty much unchanged

 

The upside is that it pretty much always hits crossup now when he lands on the other side of the opponent. So now strings like 2k > 6h, or 2p >2p> 6h will now require the opponent to switch direction to block which wasn't the case in 1.0

 

 

His Hover is also pretty interesting now too, tapping 8 to hover is much more lenient now.  You no longer get j.8 > 8  from holding up a tad too long, but now it feels like the upward directions after hover are a bit slower to come out.

[NecroTheReaper]

So, tried to do some form of the new air task C bnb, and I'm havin trouble gettin task C to connect period on Pot, El, May, and ourselves. Anyone else havin issues?

Edit: nvmnd about El and May, sj.883P>236HS route works on both of them, but big heavies are still a mystery for me atm

[Azzal]

Is there a universal new bnb combo out of 5hs 1hs midscreen now?

 

Just did 5 minutes of training (kid cryied :p ) and immediatly noticed the slower 6hs active frames, it's pretty obvious. :/

[NecroTheReaper]

So far I've used:

xx>5HS>sj.PKS>j.236HS>2S>236HS

xx>5HS>sj.PKS>j.236HS>j.K>j.6K(or P)>j.S>236HS

xx>5HS>sj.883P>(c.S)>236HS>2P/K>c.S>236HS

Had to experiment on a few by ommiting, delaying, or adding a button to the superjump sequence

[WonderTonic]

On Pote, j.S>9>j.KS>j.236H appears to work.

 

-Deja Vu seal attacks now seem to knock your opponent away from where the seal is rather than away from bedman, this can make for some interesting strings.  

 

EDIT:  so if and opponent is sandwiched between Bedman and a seal there are varying effects depending on the seal used.

 

    DV Task B (Air and Ground): Pushes opponent toward Bedman,

    DV Task C (Air and Ground): Pushes opponent toward Bedman on 1st hit.  Away on the rest. (On Block)

    DV Task A (Air and Ground): Both hits will push opponent toward Bedman

 

-While Air Task B damage was nerfed, DV Air Task B's damage is still ridiculous. 4 hits for 96 dmg on May (same as 1.0 or increase?)