[CP] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[Callisto]

^

I have no complaints about getting my own backdash nerfed when it's hitting Azrael/Kokonoe as well, lol.

[D.R.F.]

This is true lol. Its nice that he isn't getting changed TOO much. I like his play as of now

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[JollyOlBastid]

FC DID>3C should work now yay.

[-Kid]

It'll be quite cool if FC D Divider > CT was a viable option.

[Verimeloni]

I was kinda hoping they'd buff non-OD DbD or remove it altogether.

[Fistmaster049]

I was kinda hoping they'd buff non-OD DbD or remove it altogether.

Wouldn't it be cool if the non OD version was a command grab too?

sure it does very little damage for 50 meter as well as not being able to follow it up.....but the thought of Ragna having access to a command grab option...

[Verimeloni]

Wouldn't it be cool if the non OD version was a command grab too?

sure it does very little damage for 50 meter as well as not being able to follow it up.....but the thought of Ragna having access to a command grab option...

Nah, even if it was with its' current startup frames people would just start grasshopping when they'd see it coming. Plus if it was a regular command grab people could break it if you'd try to end a combo with it.

[Tong]

Not really if it had a subtle animation like Haku's Yukikaze or fast 5+0 frame startup like Tager's. To remain combo'able, just make it be like 22C.

[Verimeloni]

Still, buff it or drop it.

[-Kid]

^ I second this.

[D.R.F.]

^ might as well the only reason for dbd is overdrive anyway

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[Justice7541]

I need some help on this matchup. It feels like Ragna's pressure is just way too safe and too rewarding and literally goes on forever. At least when I'm playing Izayoi anyway. He has too many safe, high-reward blockstring resets (6d, 2c, blood scythe, dead spike, gauntlet) and escapes pressure super easily. Every match against every Ragna ever feels like:

1) Run around frantically avoiding his huge normals until I get hit or made to block.

2) Ragna runs blockstrings on you for 20+ seconds until you mess up and he gets a hit, them repeat.

3) If he gets bored/sloppy and lets you out of pressure, go back to step 1.

Objectively he isn't as bullshit as he was in Extend but this stupid character has felt ultra gay to fight against ever since CS1 with his ultra safe options and endless pressure.

I need tips, basically.

[D.R.F.]

Blood scythe lol grab them out of the sky lol

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[Justice7541]

Or get fataled trying and eat 5k.

[D.R.F.]

Idk its punishible pressure

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[bakahyl]

Swatting Ragna out of the air with most air normals or airgrabs when he is using blood scythe should not be a problem because of it's long startup, unless you saw it too late

[Cheefoo]

After he does 2C, jump out. He might be able to catch you with 2D, 3C, or 6C, but all of these will more or less end his pressure if they are blocked, and if they do hit you trying to jump out, they probably won't get much damage off of it. Up-back is generally quite effective against Ragna, but be careful of getting too predictable.

GH is totally punishable on block. I think Izayoi can do 2C to go under the GH followup, if you're afraid of getting stuffed.

6D leaves him at quite a distance if you barrier-block it. You should generally barrier most of Ragna's pressure and your life will be made much easier.

DS can be kinda predictable if they always use it after 5C, and you'll usually have enough time to jump over it and get out of harm's way by holding up-back. Also note that if they do their dash-cancel too late, they might actually be slightly negative on block and you could try to mash 2A.

However, I tested some stuff out and if Ragna has you positioned just right, his 5C>DS blockstring can't be up-backed out of; the DS hitbox will be lined up so the raised "brow" catches you just as you begin to jump. It could be character specific (though I don't imagine jumping hitboxes would be too radically different) but I think DS is kinda underused by Ragna players. At this "sweetspot" distance, most characters won't be able to mash out of the ~8 frame gap in between the 5C and DS. I think the frame advantage of DS>DC was like +2 in this scenario, but I might not have been doing the DC as fast as possible. But of course IB'ing 5C allows you to easily jump away from DS, and if Ragna DC's the whiffed DS you can easily do a falling normal and CH punish him.

BS can be kinda scary, but if you're confident in your reactions you can definitely jump and air-throw him. Anti-airing might be riskier, because often BS can cross you up and potentially FC you. Don't worry too much about getting NH by BS, it only does 1k damage flat and is absolutely impossible to combo after even with all the meter in the world. It does give him oki, though.

Another interesting thing to note is that BS (ground version, at least) retains Ragna's dashing momentum. A BS from a standing position won't go nearly as far as BS from a run. Partly why BS seems to be so hard to predict whether or not it's going to cross you up. (god damn I hope CP2 allows Ragna to combo after BS NH with RC)

All in all, just hold up-back. Barrier block. Don't panic. Ragna's high-low mixup is pretty bad. Just watch out for BS or DS throw setups, but both those moves can be avoided with a bit of luck.

[crimsonstardust]

Well I've noted in the Ragna match for Izayoi that you can use 623C to stuff BS.

[Justice7541]

If someone could break down which pressure options "drop out" for Ragna at certain distances/points in his blockstring, i.e. can't do 6D after he's been pushed out to 5B max range etc., I bet that would help a lot. Right now it feels like he can just reset pressure for free whenever he wants even though I know that's not the case.

[Tong]

2B and 2C (+1 on block) are his main safe pressure reset tools. The former is negative on block but it works as one because Ragna has many options after 2B, so, you're conditioned to block anything after 2B. It can easily get beaten by fast 5B's and A's, just look out for it. 2C works the same way and his options are safer but more limited. Most Ragnas go for 2C> 5B or 2A to reset pressure, it can be beaten by reversals or fast 2A's, and 2C> 5C or 2D to keep you in check from mashing (these are frametraps).

These are his safe pressure resets. Unsafe ones are moves like BS (+5 on block but slow), DS (slow startup, can be jumped out), 6D (slow startup, 5A's beat it).

Ragna loses many options when he's outside of 2C and 5B effective ranges, so, you can either expect something like "5C> GH or 5C> 5D> Special cancel" for him to keep up the pressure. Anything he does at that point to maintain pressure will be mostly unsafe, so always expect for something like GH, DS, BS... or HF. And always block high and prepared to counter something whenever he does 5D.

[D.R.F.]

2B and 2C (+1 on block) are his main safe pressure reset tools. The former is negative on block but it works as one because Ragna has many options after 2B, so, you're conditioned to block anything after 2B. It can easily get beaten by fast 5B's and A's, just look out for it. 2C works the same way and his options are safer but more limited. Most Ragnas go for 2C> 5B or 2A to reset pressure, it can be beaten by reversals or fast 2A's, and 2C> 5C or 2D to keep you in check from mashing (these are frametraps).

These are his safe pressure resets. Unsafe ones are moves like BS (+5 on block but slow), DS (slow startup, can be jumped out), 6D (slow startup, 5A's beat it).

Ragna loses many options when he's outside of 2C and 5B effective ranges, so, you can either expect something like "5C> GH or 5C> 5D> Special cancel" for him to keep up the pressure. Anything he does at that point to maintain pressure will be mostly unsafe, so always expect for something like GH, DS, BS... or HF. And always block high and prepared to counter something whenever he does 5D.

Also crossup divider. Gimmicky, but his best mix up tool, at the cost of 50 meter

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[What!?]

In Regards to Justice, Ragna is primarily a footsie based character with farther reaching normals than you so naturally you should try to come in at angles where 5B might whiff. Poking you with 5B and 5C is his main game, with that said I think the problem you have is more that your intimidated by the BloodEdge than anything. I think you should watch the videos of your matches and make a mental note of how these Ragnas pressured you. Of course the general idea is not to get hook-kicked by 5B, but if your forced to block it the general flowchart goes like this - mid range to far Blocked 5B - 5C - 2D. If he's somewhat close then it's probably going to be - 5B - 2B - 3C - 2D.

3C - 2D is not a true blockstring and insantblocking the 3C makes it even worse. If you see Ragna jump after 3C then he gave up all pressure trying a jump in or a gimmicky IAD 623D. Also something useful to know is when he throws out a 5C at max range he's pretty much given up pressure as the only thing that he can cancel into safely after that is 2D.

In regards to blood scythe I really think this is a problem because you've been intimidated by him, once your more comfortable fighting him it'll be easier.

Edited March 2, 2014 by What!?

[Justice7541]

Playing Izayoi is definitely part of the problem since she has no easy counters to anything he does. If he makes you block a 2C you pretty much have no choice but to let him reset his blockstring unless you want to gamble on a Phorizer or 6A, both of which will get you blown up hard if he doesn't 5B, and the rewards for actually guessing right are pretty slim since at best it puts you back at neutral where he still has the advantage. As Hazama I could at least make Ragna guess a bit more since Jayoku was a real threat, but Ragna doesn't really need to worry about anything Izayoi does if he just spaces her properly for his blockstrings. He can take all sorts of risks and as far as I can tell his only really punishable move is Blood Scythe. Anything else he won't really get hit hard enough to deter him from taking the risk and he'll still be in an advantageous position after anyway.

Playing as Kagura versus Ragna is super easy by comparison so I know his stuff isn't as safe as it seems when I'm playing Izayoi. Although Ragna can actually zone Kagura out with Dead Spike and there's nothing he can do.

[OmniSScythe]

"Although Ragna can actually zone Kagura out with Dead Spike and there's nothing he can do. "

Justice pls

[D.R.F.]

Doesn't kagura have that one move that eats projectiles? I don't see how you zone him out

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