[CP] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[-Kid]

The change was to fix the whiff that occurred from using gauntlet hades too close. It doesn't have anything to do with the followup.

[bakahyl]

The change was to fix the whiff that occurred from using gauntlet hades too close. It doesn't have anything to do with the followup.

So that means that the followup will stiff whiff a crouching person?

[KayEff]

yes

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Watching HARA, seems like 3C -> 22C after BE in the corner still works. Not sure exactly how the BE nerf changes his combos, dude still seems to be rampaging with him.

[BlackYakuzu94]

He tried it at another point and it didn't work, I guess it has to be done pretty early in a combo to work.

[-Kid]

It's most likely proration dependant.

[KayEff]

...even though hitstun scaling isn't proration dependent anymore?

[-Kid]

My bad, didn't mean proration. It's more hitstun decay.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Watching more videos, it definitely becomes more evident how the BE change affects combos. There are certain situations where you will have to do simpler combos and sacrifice some damage and Heat gain due to the shorter untechable time. Things like these midscreen conversions where you do an air sequence into BE late in the combo no longer allow any followup, whereas before you could get a DID to end your combo with a knockdown.

[KayEff]

i guess that just kinda invalidates any merit behind j.D's extra hitstun then

[floatwater]

I can confirm 3C > BE is only used near the beginning. It will not work in the later half of a combo.

[WolfCrimson]

Ok, was doing some testing to see at which distance DS is considered advantageous on IB, and I found out that at close to mid-range, IB 5A can hit you if you try to 5A immediately afterwards, and at the max DS distance where your follow up 5A won't whiff, there's a 1-frame gap they can dp you.

So, like, is DS a bad move? How long have I not known this? Why wasn't it posted anywhere visible?

[D.R.F.]

Ok, was doing some testing to see at which distance DS is considered advantageous on IB, and I found out that at close to mid-range, IB 5A can hit you if you try to 5A immediately afterwards, and at the max DS distance where your follow up 5A won't whiff, there's a 1-frame gap they can dp you.

So, like, is DS a bad move? How long have I not known this? Why wasn't it posted anywhere visible?

Weell the thing about that is this makes DS a bad move on paper. If someone IB that you should have that scenario in your mind, and although its good to know at max range most people are not ballsy enough to try and dp out. I usually have to deal with those jumping out of my pressure so I do a lot of super j.a mash to keep them in pressure. Its good information to know (great information, thank you really) but I don't think it warrants a bad move, just a real disrespectful one

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[JusOneAznKyd]

So I am trying to learn this guy again, played the original BB, but have not picked up any of the other games after, man, I got a lot to learn.....first thing I am trying to get a hold of are the rush down mix ups, I currently use...

 

1) 5B, 5C....

2) 6B, 5D...

3) Throw...

*after the ... I am asking for input on what would be good follow ups to use?  frame advantage, CH baits or whatever, as well as other moves that would be good at high level, not quite at that level yet, but hopefully sometime in the next few months I can get to rank 20ish!

 

I like watching SKD play Ragna, really good mix up and really smart player as well.  Anyone recommend other good Ragna players?  Kaqn is the other really good Ragna that I know of, but he hasn't uploaded many BB CP videos recently.

[KayEff]

2a and 2b are your best options in pressure

 

use 2c after 5c to put yourself in frame advantage. however don't use 5c a lot in blockstrings because you don't have very many options off of it, which means overuse will get you read hard like a book

 

5d is terrible to use in blockstrings because it offers very little mixup opportunities and every option off of it is either risky or unsafe

 

and do you really need a followup to throw? if it whiffs, just do whatever you want, it's a throw whiff ffs

 

your best bet with ragna mixup is to be unreadable. study his gatlings, learn what's safe and what's not, and use that knowledge to randomize your blockstrings to keep the opponent guessing

 

since ragna is such an easy to read and hard to win character, it's hard to find people who are legit good (and by that i mean they actually win tournaments). there's really no single person out there who stands out far, or even slightly above the rest

 

by the way i'm moving this topic to the gameplay discussion as it belongs there

[D.R.F.]

I suggest watching SKD or Kaqn if you want to see a ragna play from a different perspective (best players I've watched, tbh) but the most important thing to do is simply play and watch replays. See what you did , what you could have done, good and bad reads, and just keep in mind that those bad reads can be great reads in very certain situations (like 5D in the corner when opponents are trying to jump out). And just keep developing your pressure and such, like 6D-J.D, etc. My pressure really leveled up from doing stuff like this, so I recommend it

[BlackYakuzu94]

Also, use Training Mode and practice your strings and combos; Ragna's abare is pretty good, so dropping combos feels kinda terrible.

[Kumlekar]

Is Ragna's 5B slower in CP than it was in CS?  I feel like I'm being beaten out more when using it to poke, but that may be more of me being out of practice than character changes.

[D.R.F.]

Is Ragna's 5B slower in CP than it was in CS? I feel like I'm being beaten out more when using it to poke, but that may be more of me being out of practice than character changes.

It might possibly be exactly that. I have been beaten out of moves because I got hit before the active frames extended all the way

[KayEff]

startup did not change at all

 

it's important to note that only the hitbox at the base of ragna's leg has the 8 frame startup. the extension past that is roughly 12 frames or so.

[D.R.F.]

Sorry, I meant to say that it was incorrect use:/

[mAc Chaos]

maybe the hurtbox changed

[D.R.F.]

Well it was always around the hitbox too from what I remember

[floatwater]

The hurtbox of Ragna's 5B extended passed his hitbox by like. . .a centimeter or so? Only a good handful of normals cleanly beat it out on match start like Tsubaki's 5A. 

Either way it just is the same.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Noel's 5A beats it too.