[CP 1.1] Iron Tager Gameplay Discussion

[destruction_adv]

not that fond of guard breaks in FGs, but Crush Trigger is, I think, the better one in the Blazblue franchise right now.

 

I agree with this too I think that mix-ups by themselves should be threating enough you don't need a guard crush mechanic.

[legacy49i]

I'm aware I've been here since CT. And to all that I say: good riddance. I stand by my statement.

Well most CT systems were pretty basic, and very heavy-handed.  CT is easily the weakest version on every level.

 

I think Extend was probably the best version of the game.  I'm sure you could nitpick character specific things that are better in CP, but I think, as a whole, Extend is a better representation of BlazBlue.

[D.R.F.]

Blazblue corner fighter baby

[Yohosie]

Terumi 6a hits us crouching, but 5C on our wakeup hurts a lot too. It's a really good meaty that we can't 720 out of that can be RCed for a really scary mixup. Not to mention it's relatively safe on block (-2). Terumi isn't broken but he's a fuckboy and I hate him conceptually.

I have no problem with Crush Triggers, I think the current guard system is perfectly fine. Guard Breaks are dumb anyways. It's not like it's extremely difficult to open people up in Blazblue anyways.

[mariusrhpsd]

5c can be backdashed and punished, 5b/2d are the real monsters here IMO

[just some guy]

Backdashing 5c is just asking to be hit with 5d>236d in most situations. In the corner our backdash is worthless against him.

[mariusrhpsd]

dunno, when i play tagers I never go for meaty 5c, I normally go for meaty 5b, 2d or some air normal, if the tager is mashing backdash 5c is just horrible on whiff

[Zeron_X25]

I miss the times when I would get cursed by Arakune. Then block for the entire duration, get my guard crushed at the very end and then cursed again by his air super. Only good Arakunes though... you can just sledge bad ones.

[bakahyl]

How much on block is Tager's 2d supposed to be? According to the old cp frame data it is -1, but yet i still keep seeing Tager players use his 5a after a blocked 2d

[Darlos9D]

How much on block is Tager's 2d supposed to be? According to the old cp frame data it is -1, but yet i still keep seeing Tager players use his 5a after a blocked 2d

Hm, from what I always understood, the reason you use 5A after 2D is because it beats everything but a reversal. It's basically free pressure, unless they IB.

 

Basically you treat a blocked 2D almost the same as you do a GF, which is also minus a little.

[mariusrhpsd]

Wasn't GF like +7? Also, depending on the spacing 2d can be pretty safe, it's -1 if you do it point blank IIRC

[mAc Chaos]

GF is +3.

[Darlos9D]

Wait, now I'm confused. I was thinking they were similar which is why I said GF is slightly minus. Now that I think of it, in the past I thought 2D WAS slightly plus on block. Was it at some point?

 

Based on what marius said maybe I was just thinking that late hits with 2D tend to be plus.

[mAc Chaos]

I was thinking about that a while ago, since Tagers always say they like to test the opponent's mashing tendencies after 2D to see how they react. But even his CT frame data says it's -1.

 

So it must have been -1 all along but dependent on the spacing.

[Osuna]

In frame data -1 means that if it is normal blocked on the first active frame you are -1, which for some moves is not relevant at all.

 

Buuuuut I remember something about 2D getting a buff on block in one of the older games. Like 0 or +1. It hardly mattered then and definitely doesn't now. (Or maybe I'm imagining it)I'd check out CS and CS2 frame data if I had the time. Maybe it was 0 on block like GF used to be back when it was really bad and no one believed me.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

In frame data -1 means that if it is normal blocked on the first active frame you are -1, which for some moves is not relevant at all.

 

Buuuuut I remember something about 2D getting a buff on block in one of the older games. Like 0 or +1. It hardly mattered then and definitely doesn't now. (Or maybe I'm imagining it)I'd check out CS and CS2 frame data if I had the time. Maybe it was 0 on block like GF used to be back when it was really bad and no one believed me.

 

2D is -1 but it has so many active frames it's really easy to make it + with a good meaty.

[mAc Chaos]

I thought a move went into recovery the instant you hit with it. Does it still continue through all the active frames? Or maybe that's relevant for gatlings...

Damn, it has 10 active frames. So it's potentially +9.

[Darlos9D]

I thought a move went into recovery the instant you hit with it. Does it still continue through all the active frames? Or maybe that's relevant for gatlings...

Damn, it has 10 active frames. So it's potentially +9.

Yeah the frame data always assumes you're hitting with the first active frame, since that's what usually happens.

 

I guess the thing with 2D is that it often hits meaty, since you're usually hitting with it sometime after it goes active, which is during the forward movement. This is unlike most moves where you're probably only hitting meaty if you attack late while the opponent is ground teching.

[TokuToku]

Off the general subject last discussed, but was wondering if i could get some help. Picked bbcp up recently (quit around extend release). Was experiementing with option selects with tager, and all i came up with was various stuff off gadget finger oki. Which i later saw another user yosihie had posted about in a match up thread. However a couple of times i was able to get a 360a if the 5a was backdashed, and if the 5a hit or block would get 5b. This was really difficult to get believe took about 30 plus record tries in training mode to get it once. Anyway was wondering if anyone could help with that os input, and what other option selects are useful for tager. Thanks everyone in advance.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Off the general subject last discussed, but was wondering if i could get some help. Picked bbcp up recently (quit around extend release). Was experiementing with option selects with tager, and all i came up with was various stuff off gadget finger oki. Which i later saw another user yosihie had posted about in a match up thread. However a couple of times i was able to get a 360a if the 5a was backdashed, and if the 5a hit or block would get 5b. This was really difficult to get believe took about 30 plus record tries in training mode to get it once. Anyway was wondering if anyone could help with that os input, and what other option selects are useful for tager. Thanks everyone in advance.

 

Inputting the 360 late is essential. When you're doing stuff on GF oki you're +3 which isn't helpful when you're trying to use invuln frames on 360A. It basically just cuts into your invuln frame window. You need to delay the 360 input a tiny bit, then hold it for a moment.

 

It's a hard callout anyway because it's far more likely the opponent will just jump. Unless you have some super specific matchup need for it, just stick to good old 5A or blocking to bait DPs.

[TokuToku]

Thanks, yea after experimenting online seems the 5a piano option selects detailed by yoshie are far more effective, as well as 100 times easier to input properly.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Thanks, yea after experimenting online seems the 5a piano option selects detailed by yoshie are far more effective, as well as 100 times easier to input properly.

 The backdash-or-5A OS is really only for Azrael cuz he uniquely has a godlike backdash and a 5A with 6 active frames. If you use 360A as soon as possible against him the +3 on GF will cause your invuln frames to disappear too quickly, hence why you need to delay it.

[TagerTime]

I love new 6A and 6B and this should mean it will be in the final build https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL-JfSiGGWM&t=2m3s

I wish they showed new Atomic collider in the trailer too. It sucks that we have to wait till october 9th to actually see what it even looks like.

[Darlos9D]

Yeah if the loktest 6A is an official thing, that... that could change some shit. One of his biggest weaknesses is fuckers going miles into the air with impunity, even when magnetized. 623D was a nice step in the right direction, but wasn't enough. If the new 6A magnetically pulls super-strong like the reports said, that could really put some situations in his favor, especially since your armor will probably be active by the time they try to poke you out of it. And then if they just blocked... actually, does it still pull them to the ground then? If so that would be amazing, to have an airborn opponent block a 6A only to wind up on the ground directly in front of Tager. Or, well, it'd be amazing if the new 6B is fast enough to be a solid block string off of 6A. Maybe. I dunno.

 

Unless something else changed I guess he'll still be shitty against long-reach melee pressure and jump-ins without good up-close anti-airs, reversals, and approach tools. Also I feel like Hazama could poke us with a chain from the air fast enough to beat 6A's armor. But improvements are improvements.

[Mucky]

I hope they changed AC back to its pre-CP knockdown. I never liked how the CP one forces Tager to use spark bolt/RC to reliably follow-up after a midscreen AC. It limits his midscreen options and as an anti-air its risk/reward has become heavily skewed. At least in Extend it led to decent damage+GF oki anywhere.