[UNIEL] Waldstein

[Sharkkato103]

Only thing I'd add is that j.A is basically j.B but with no combo ability but far more useful at futher ranges and will hit tall characters during assault (invalidating wiff grab mixup) or backtechs. In that case j.6C from assault or 66C stops jumpouts and allows for the same mixup from wiffing it. j.[C] is more of a gimmick (Top 2 Walds will 99% of the time use 66C or j6C over j[C] for 360 mix).

[Loli-Zero]

After more testing I do agree that 66C is really good. I edited my post to include more info on 66c and whiff j.6C. I don't think j.C charge is a gimmick though, just another option. It is however something you don't want to do as often because it doesn't stop jumping like the other options.

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[Villainous]

Random question, is j.[C] safe on shield if done pretty early? Haven't had a chance to test it yet. 

[zankoku]

Charged jump normals don't tend to have any more blockstun than uncharged, so I doubt it.

[zankoku]

Proof of concept combo from 2C?

2C > j.A > j.B > j.C > 5B > 214B > j.B > j.C > j.6C > (land) > j.C > j.6C > (land) > j.C > j.B > j.214B -- 3117

 

Also is this the highest damage ender for 200 meter + Vorpal (no Veil Off)?

-- > 3C > 214C > CS > 3C > 214C

From 2B > 5B > 214B > j.B6C > j.C6C > 3C, this gave me 4413 damage.

 

Alternatively, ending with

-- > 3C > 214C > CS > [4]6C

gives the God Press corner carry. From the same starting combo, I got 4326 damage.

[Daimao]

I'll just leave these two Waldstein Combo Bibles here:

 

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22648023

 

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23676808

[ZakoLive]

I feel like there's no way this isn't already found, but I'm not seeing it talked about anywhere and it's WAY more damage, so here's your new meter-usage for damage optimization for midscreen:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a30n13AT_hA&feature=youtu.be

 

I'm assuming I didn't actually invent this shit, but I can't find it anywhere so yeah enjoy I guess

[zankoku]

I'll take a look when I get home, but the "typical meter combo" you listed is actually already sub-optimal, since j.214C has far inferior minimum damage to 214C and you can easily get 214C by just replacing "j.C > j.B > j.214C" with "3C > 214C".

[ZakoLive]

either way, i beat the damage I got in that video just now too. I'll post video of it later but

 

5B, 214B, j.B, j.C, j.6C, land, j.C, land into:

 

100 meter, pure damage:

2C, 5C, j.C, j.6C, land, 3C (this catch is FUCKING HARD you have to keep them as low as possible throughout the rest of the combo), 214C - 3810 damage

a bit easier on yourself but a bit less damage is to do 5B instead of 2C here. The pickup from j.C into it is a touch harder since 5B is a bit slower than 2C, but they also juggle at an optimal position for the j.C, j.6C, land, 3C to hit. That variation does 3725 damage.

 

No meter, corner carry:

2B, 2C, 4B, (4),6B - 3185 damage

 

100 meter, corner carries from about the middle of the stage:

2B, 2C, 4B, 214B, 360C - 3687 damage

 

100 meter, corner carry:

2B, 5B, 5C, 3C, (4),6C - 3634 damage

 

Any of these can be chain shifted into at least 5B, 5C, 3C, 214C for a shitload of damage. I capped out at 4779 damage from the pure damage path into that.

 

EDIT: just found a better one for 100 meter and corner carry that does more damage than either of the pseudo-carries. The starter from above, into:

5B, 214B, 3C, (4),6C - 3691 damage

[zankoku]

Do you mind checking against a variety of starters? It's just a little uncommon to land raw 5B.

 

Also, for one piece of good news, I tested and confirmed that

(starter) > 5B > 214B > j.B-C-6C > 6C > j.C-214B

works from all starters, 5A and 2A included, and indeed deals more damage than

(starter) > 5B > 214B > j.B-C-6C > j.C-6C > j.C-B-214B

 

So I guess there's that, as far as improving bnbs goes.

 

This also provides a neat opportunity to set up the 4B re-stand, since the 6C tends to keep enough hitstun for a step forward into 4B.

(starter) > 5B > 214B > j.B-C-6C > 6C > 4B

From here, 4B orange-bars, so you don't have any valid combos, but the restand is still fairly scary with your 2B/236B/360A mixup.

[MK Peanuts]

I don't know if this is common knowledge, but you don't have to do 360s to do 360s in this game. It'll accept 270s. I'm kind of the worst at 360s so it was a godsend to find this out.

[MechaMacGyver]

I've been doing 632149 and it's working out great. 

 

What are y'all's thoughts on ending combos in j2C? It lets you stay close where 236A or other enders would put opponents at a distance. 

[SonicBoomBrad]

As someone who actively plays this character in tournaments, I think the infinite should be banned. If you can't beat a player when you have them in the corner with Waldstein you don't deserve to win with this character. Also do we have an optimal combo out? I've just been using the Japanese one, seems like the most damage he can get without some ridiculous positioning. Like 99% of the "big damage" combos I've seen in this thread only work if you do like one normal into 214B right in their face.

[Loli-Zero]

An optimal combo for what situation?

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[zankoku]

Ending in j.2C Is interesting since it has a tendency to side-switch, and gives something like +10 advantage against emergency tech afterward. I still prefer ending in 4B, though. Doing something like

(starter) > 5B > 214B > j.B-C-6C > 6C > 4B

is good damage plus ends in re-stand, which I think is the best non-Press setup overall.

[MK Peanuts]

Just found out you actually can combo from assault j.B even on normal hit. Assault j.B combos into 360A. You need to be close enough for the 360A to connect obviously but this works even from an early assault j.B.

 

Ending in j.2C Is interesting since it has a tendency to side-switch, and gives something like +10 advantage against emergency tech afterward. I still prefer ending in 4B, though. Doing something like

(starter) > 5B > 214B > j.B-C-6C > 6C > 4B

is good damage plus ends in re-stand, which I think is the best non-Press setup overall.

 

Is it more or less frame advantage on hit to end in 4B xx 214B, as opposed to 4B? It looks like the frame data in the wiki only has frame data for on block, not on hit.

[zankoku]

With 4B alone already being +9, I don't know what I'd do with more, and in the combo I listed it orange bars after 4B anyway. I can test adv on hit for a 4B 214B when I get back tonight

[SonicBoomBrad]

An optimal combo for what situation?

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Mid screen. I use the typical combo into 4B and either get corner carry or a reset, when I have meter I just go for 3C charge super. That's what I see most Japanese players do. Although some go for that weird ass charge jC combo that only gets like 2.1k. Just wondering if anyone's found something better.

 

Also we should compile a list of block strings that can be used to set up dash 360A/Mix up. Pretty sure that's the future of this character. That and fundamental spacing obviously.

 

I've been messing with 6C as an anti air. It would be such an amazing anti air for damage if [4]6C wasn't 38f of charge time. I mess up the input so often and get [4]6C and it makes me so sad.

[ozleon]

What are Wald's anti-airs?

[zankoku]

2C, 5C, 5B, 66B, occasionally 5A and 3C

[TZA707]

6c also, right? I need to test it out more but I know it works as an AA (as SonicBoomBrad stated)

hi OZ :3

[zankoku]

I don't think it's a normal you can anti-air on reaction with, but if you're expecting a jump-in and it works then you've got pretty heavy reward.

[SonicBoomBrad]

6c also, right? I need to test it out more but I know it works as an AA (as SonicBoomBrad stated)

hi OZ :3

It's kinda wonky unfortunately, it was a nice idea but I'm not really sure how practical it is.

On a side note Waldstein controls the air like a god with j.214A/B. If I'm ever scared of someone's offense and I have chain shift, I'll just jump back CS, from there you can watch your opponent and react accordingly with an air normal or 214A/B if they try to jump and contest you. It's pretty godlike as a general spacing tool too.

[Shine]

On a side note Waldstein controls the air like a god with j.214A/B. If I'm ever scared of someone's offense and I have chain shift, I'll just jump back CS, from there you can watch your opponent and react accordingly with an air normal or 214A/B if they try to jump and contest you. It's pretty godlike as a general spacing tool too.

 

he already controls the air with all his other moves. why go the extra mile and waste cs for low damage option? not necessary.

[zankoku]

j.214A/B -> CS leads to over 4k for 100 meter, so I wouldn't call it a low damage option.

 

If you're jumping back and burning CS to see whether an air normal or j.214A/B would be better, j.214A/B still deals a good 1.4k on its own (assuming you're not able to get a strong conversion off of a jump normal).