[UNIEL] Yuzuriha

[Tari]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZxG-OQLt84

 

Figured I'd share some Yuzu stuff, finally. This has... corner side-swap combos, midscreen 236A > 236C combos, tk j.214x combos, assault starter combos, a tk j.214x oki setup demonstration, a mid-screen throw into VO combo, and a VO combo route demonstration.

 

Didn't bother editing it into a combo video or anything, since it's just a bunch of random things.

 

I'd record some replays, but I don't think netplay generally is a good representation of normal gameplay (even if it's 4 bar, it isn't always perfect). Maybe I'll record some local games from the arcade or something, if I can be unlazy enough to bring my recording setup with me, haha.

 

 

edit: forgot to mention some of the stuff is character specific, but most of it is universal.

[Kaede_99]

thanks for creating content guys!

- subbed both.

niche game + niche character does make it harder to study/research than some of the previous games i've played.

- props for throwing in the: full punish > CS > 66B > 236ABA
- knew it works but back of mind forgot to tick it off/practice it specifically.

 

@Tari

- those tk j.214x oki setups
Are they just done as quickly as possible/the way they look in the video? looks like the 5A is being used an an empty/timer
Have you labbed those setup against anything else except gordeau? any character where that sort of thing might be bad you can think of?

obviously if they catch on; they can start doing delay wake up

[Tari]

That setup works against every character in the cast, though certain moves can beat it (ie: Merkava IW, Hyde IW, and any other reversals with large hitboxes in all directions). The timing and spacing is setup specific, and there's more leniency against characters that don't have good reversed input moves (ie: NOT Vatista, lol).

 

The 5A whiff isn't for fastest possible tk j.214B, actually. It's so that I have the ability to choose when I want to do the flip, and so I have a little bit of time to reposition (if you look at the video, I actually step back before performing the tk flip). I showed one of the two optimal spacings in the video, which allow the setup to cleanly beat almost anything, from Vatista flash kicks to Gordeau's infinite worth, etc. From less optimal knockdowns, it can be significantly less safe, though you should always be able to get around DPs by side-swapping on the opponent's wakeup.

 

 

The only reason the setup works as well as it does is because Yuzu lands from the flip very quickly after the opponent techs. If she stays airborne, she can be hit far more easily by things like EX Grim Reaper. Again, though, it still beats DPs pretty freely even with less optimal spacing (timing still matters, of course, as you want to cross over the opponent as they perform their reversal).

 

Depending on spacing, j.214A is actually better than j.214B, because of the distance it travels. The difference between the two flips is what allows her to have two optimal spacings for the setup.

 

If the flip whiffs because the opponent late techs, you can just cancel into a B teleport to side-swap back over them, or spot dodge, or short slash, or jump, or just exit stance, or etc. Obviously less than optimal compared to what you want, but it's not a terrible spot to be in.

 

 

 

In any case, I think the setup is arguably most useful against Merkava, because it literally just shuts down everything he can do on wakeup. It's good against pretty much everyone else, but you obviously can't always use it, and some characters don't even need that type of setup to get guaranteed oki on them.

 

 

 

 

I actually forgot to demonstrate tk j.6c oki, which is a bit unfortunate. That setup can beat every meterless reversal in the game if spaced correctly, but loses pretty cleanly to back tech.

 

 

 

 

(by the by, I'm tired as heck, so apologies in advance if I'm rambling and not making any sense, lol)

 

 

====

 

 

morning edit:

 

got woken up by various things, so I sat down and recorded the j.214a version of the oki and one example of j.6c oki: 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJyr8YjT1Po

 

 

just for reference, the j.6c oki was performed from a pretty close-range knockdown. it's really best to get it at a tk height, so you can just cancel into j.214b on block, but you have no real choice if you're too close to out-range a dp. You can alternatively bait a dp by whiffing a j.6c as the opponent gets up and then doing whatever you want from there (spot dodge, j.6b > j.214b+d, etc.).

[SeraOverdose]

How do you get the timing on the J.5B>J.5C so well x-x I miss it alot Dx

[BlackYakuzu94]

I'm trying to better understand the stance exceptions; so you can do shit like 236B+D>6B>236B right?

[Tari]

I'm trying to better understand the stance exceptions; so you can do shit like 236B+D>6B>236B right?

 

Not quite sure what you're asking about here, but I'm pretty sure you can't do 236B+D > 6B. You can do something like 236B~[C] > 6B > 236B+D, but that doesn't have any exceptions in it.

 

For what it's worth, by the way, 6B isn't a stance special, it's a stance 'normal', and I can't recall any exceptions that work for the stance 'normals'.

[HARD_BREAD]

236B~[C] > 6B > 236B+D would be more ideal than 236B+D>6B>236B because for one you stay in stance and have access to 6B faster, and two, you don't have to actually press 6B you can just press B since you're already in stance.
 

Have any of you guys been using the TK Kocchi tech? it's really good in neutral and oki situations.

[Tari]

TK Kocchi is pretty suicidal in neutral if the opponent expects any type of teleport, but it's good option to throw out every now and then. Definitely not something to use too often, though. Usability varies from matchup to matchup. Not sure about oki.

[HARD_BREAD]

It's good for doing j.214A for characters with longer wakeups or people who like to delay. Of course you have to practice timings, and it requires practice for proper usage period. Anything we can think of is useful with this character, otherwise we'd almost never open anyone up. It's actually not that easy to react to and you can do it very close to the ground.

[Starrk]

I have trouble leaving stance with 236B+D. I always seem to get IW. Anyone have a solution for that?

[HARD_BREAD]

If you're getting IW it means you're doing 1236B+D instead of 236B+D. Try doing B~D to help correct that if you're having trouble doing a clean 236 instead of 1236. Check your inputs.

[choysauce]

Awesome work in this thread.

 

I wanted to ask how people are doing the j.9~D cancels off of the stance? I can't seem to consistently get it to cancel or get the j.2[C] for some of her combos that call for it. the j.2C tends to not come out or comes out too late.

 

Also I'm on board with calling for a convention of differentiating between slide and simultaneous button inputs. and also differentiating 236B > 236A > 236B ish notations (it can easily be confused for the short normal slashes from the stance)

 

I suggest 236B+D as simultaneous and then 236B~D as slide

also i'm for utilizing 236B~[C] as a slide hold notation

 

last question regarding the 236BAB stuff. Does the stance system just allow 3 actions period? if saying, using the B option in the stance doesn't allow you to use B option again, it doesn't make sense.

[Starrk]

For the first thing it's really just a timing thing that you need to practice to get consistent. I just treat the 236a and 9+d as one motion. Since 9 is on the way up from 236 and as soon as I get to 9 I press d and immediately start charging j2c

[choysauce]

Is there a visual cue? specific input timing that can be explained? I feel like as soon as I jump I hit the D and it's still kinda inconsistent for me. 

 

Also I just figured out why you can do batou BAB when holding a button already. Holding the C before doing the first battou B probably counts as a slide, so it never uses the B in the stance.

[Tari]

It's good for doing j.214A for characters with longer wakeups or people who like to delay. Of course you have to practice timings, and it requires practice for proper usage period. Anything we can think of is useful with this character, otherwise we'd almost never open anyone up. It's actually not that easy to react to and you can do it very close to the ground.

 

It's not a bad option to have, but it is definitely risky as all hell. While it's not easy to react to, it still is reactable, and pretty much every character can just push 5B if they see Yuzu do a low-to-ground air teleport and beat anything she does afterward. The part that is hard for opponents to reliably react to is the difference between air and ground teleport.

 

Not sure where you're using tk Kocchi for oki, but I see a few places it might be interesting. I'll have to remember to try it out in a few matches. Pretty situational, and can be avoided with various types of teching, but that's par for the course.

 

 

I think I'd like tk Kocchi more as an option if you could direct cancel it into j.6x, instead of having to finagle with tiny windows for doing j.6x before touching the floor. I'm not completely sure, but I think lowest possible tk Kocchi actually just can't be followed up with j.6x before you hit the floor.

 

 

(unrelated, but can you guys imagine how dumb tk kocchi was in the previous version of the game, where 6x was low and j.6x was high? lol)

 

I have trouble leaving stance with 236B+D. I always seem to get IW. Anyone have a solution for that?

 

It's just a matter of cleaning up your inputs. If you can't do what Bread suggested (236B~D, which is only possible if you haven't used the B button yet), then you just have to have a clean 236 input.

 

On that note, by the way, I just want to remind people that D-paired stance battous do less damage than in-stance battous, which do less damage than out-of-stance battous. Where possible, you shouldn't D-cancel/pair any of your battous until after they hit the opponent.

 

 

Awesome work in this thread.

 

I wanted to ask how people are doing the j.9~D cancels off of the stance? I can't seem to consistently get it to cancel or get the j.2[C] for some of her combos that call for it. the j.2C tends to not come out or comes out too late.

 

Also I'm on board with calling for a convention of differentiating between slide and simultaneous button inputs. and also differentiating 236B > 236A > 236B ish notations (it can easily be confused for the short normal slashes from the stance)

 

I suggest 236B+D as simultaneous and then 236B~D as slide

also i'm for utilizing 236B~[C] as a slide hold notation

 

last question regarding the 236BAB stuff. Does the stance system just allow 3 actions period? if saying, using the B option in the stance doesn't allow you to use B option again, it doesn't make sense.

 

Please do use ~ for slide notation and + for pair notation. That's the norm.

 

--

 

The game lets you use one of the three buttons (A/B/C) to enter stance. When you enter stance, you can use any two of the three buttons to perform moves, including the button you used to enter stance, as long as you slide to hold stance with a different button. When you use up your two buttons, you can perform one last stance move with any button by pairing it with the D button.

 

There are some exceptions to the rules that have to do with how you enter and exit stance that can allow you one or two extra stance moves, but those are special cases.

 

 

Is there a visual cue? specific input timing that can be explained? I feel like as soon as I jump I hit the D and it's still kinda inconsistent for me. 

 

Also I just figured out why you can do batou BAB when holding a button already. Holding the C before doing the first battou B probably counts as a slide, so it never uses the B in the stance.

 

You want the white stance-exit ring to appear as low to the ground as possible when you jump cancel the 236A. Ideally, you want the ring to appear on the floor.

 

For the j.2[C] after you exit stance, just do it as you're reaching the apex of your jump. I do my combos from timing, not visual cues, so that might not be the visual cue most players use, but I think it's pretty reasonable? Sorry if it doesn't really work.

[SIne]

Is there a visual cue? specific input timing that can be explained? I feel like as soon as I jump I hit the D and it's still kinda inconsistent for me. 

 

This is tricky at first but you can just grind out the timing. Firstly, make sure they are close to you in the air,  before you attempt j.2 [C] otherwise it will whiff. For example, it will never hit off 5A>5B>5C> 236A j.9~D.

As soon as you jump cancel, tap D then charge the J.2C. The method i use is 236A, hold 9, tap D quickly then charge J.2C

[HARD_BREAD]

This is tricky at first but you can just grind out the timing. Firstly, make sure they are close to you in the air,  before you attempt j.2 [C] otherwise it will whiff. For example, it will never hit off 5A>5B>5C> 236A j.9~D.

As soon as you jump cancel, tap D then charge the J.2C. The method i use is 236A, hold 9, tap D quickly then charge J.2C

That's not why it wont hit though, it depends on your starter and how much you prorate the combo before j.2[C]. You're generally allowed 3 moves before the j.2[C], any more than that and it'll whiff.

1.5A>5C>236A>9D>j.2[C]

2.2B>2C>236BA>9D>j.2[C]

3.4C>236BA>9D>j.2[C]

Those are probably the most common ways to get j.2[C] to combo.

[choysauce]

 

 

You want the white stance-exit ring to appear as low to the ground as possible when you jump cancel the 236A. Ideally, you want the ring to appear on the floor.

 

For the j.2[C] after you exit stance, just do it as you're reaching the apex of your jump. I do my combos from timing, not visual cues, so that might not be the visual cue most players use, but I think it's pretty reasonable? Sorry if it doesn't really work.

ok, so there's something that appears when you do the D cancel correctly. And this needs to happen as soon as I leave the floor correct?

 

Thanks Tari!

[Tari]

ok, so there's something that appears when you do the D cancel correctly. And this needs to happen as soon as I leave the floor correct?

 

Thanks Tari!

 

I screencapped the effect for you and marked it inside a red square:

 

 

When you push the D button while you're in stance (at any point, even in the middle of a move), or if you exit stance naturally without ever pushing the D button, this white ring will appear. It signifies the start of a short period of 'stance exit recovery'. If you naturally exit stance, this recovery period is tacked on at the end of all of her normal stance recovery frames. If you D-cancel to exit stance, the recovery period will start from whenever you push the D button, and will take place simultaneously with any other frames that are already occurring (thus not causing you to experience any extra recovery at the end of stance).

[xXavierx]

Is there a reason why some intermediate combos from the wiki say slide C and some say hold C when they seem interchangable? Is there a reason during a combo you would want to use one over the other? 

 

In particular I learned this midscreen

5A > 5C > 236A~9D > j.2[C] > 4C > 2C > (4B) > 236BA (slide C) > 214B~D > 66C > j.421A~D 

 

and this corner 

5A > 5C > 236A~9D > j.2[C] > 4C > 2C (hold C) > 236B > 236A > 214B~D > 66C > j.421C~D 

 

but I can hold C after the 2c in the midscreen too so is there any reason why I shouldn't? I feel like holds are easier in general so I want to use them whenever possible. 

[Blue Crimson]

Because 'Slide C' would mean that you would slide hold, when 'Hold C' meant that you just used the C button, e.g. 2C (Hold C).  
The midscreen combo was off of 236BA (Slide C), so you have to use the slide hold technique there..  After 2C, you don't need to slide hold, because you're already pressing it.

You may not want to have held C there or forgot to, either way, it's just the notations.

[Tari]

When doing combos, you don't have to slide input, you can generally just hold down a button from the last time you inputted it in a move. Having said that, I'd argue that it's pretty important to learn to do slide inputs, because it lets you string together stance options in neutral and from unexpected hits much more freely.

[Tari]

I had the reverse teleport glitch happen to me again today. Fortunately, I was playing netplay, so I was able to save the replay:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3crRAGuDWM4

 

 

Anyone have ideas as to what causes this to happen? I've only experienced it twice over the course of thousands of games, and both times were with the C teleport (once with the aerial one, once with the grounded one).

It's not a netplay phenomenon, either. First time it occurred was offline.

[choysauce]

I had the reverse teleport glitch happen to me again today. Fortunately, I was playing netplay, so I was able to save the replay:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3crRAGuDWM4

 

 

Anyone have ideas as to what causes this to happen? I've only experienced it twice over the course of thousands of games, and both times were with the C teleport (once with the aerial one, once with the grounded one).

It's not a netplay phenomenon, either. First time it occurred was offline.

I can't say I have any solid things to go by,

 

but could it possibly be some misinput that is causing it? or some sequence that causes it. The only place else I could think of getting an answer would be to see any JP sources.

 

This could be very powerful if it can be controlled.

[Antaiseito]

I had the reverse teleport glitch happen to me again today. Fortunately, I was playing netplay, so I was able to save the replay:

 

-video-

 

Anyone have ideas as to what causes this to happen? I've only experienced it twice over the course of thousands of games, and both times were with the C teleport (once with the aerial one, once with the grounded one).

It's not a netplay phenomenon, either. First time it occurred was offline.

 

Noticed that the first hit of your blockstring hit him while he was still crossing you up and facing away (or right after). Maybe it depends on that?