[P4AU] Rise Kujikawa Gameplay Discussion

[mMarikom]

Is there a Rise skype chat? I'm day 1 Rise (love setplay characters) just reading stuff and trying to find a solid place to start and hearing from other players would be great.

[Tecta1Eastside]

As far as I know, there isn't a Rise skype chat. If enough people are interested one can be made. Use this video to learn basic bnbs for now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQlXspxIZIs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Justice7541]

There's always #p4u on the Mizuumi IRC but it's not Rise-specific, although there are a couple of Rise players there.

 

Also I've concluded that it's too hard to get hard knockdown note oki and scan at the same time no matter how strong it is, I need to find good setplay setups that don't require hard KD.

[Anne]

I just feel the need to point out all these "unblockable" set ups don't work if your opponent has 50 meter, period. Like REALLY need to point that out as something, because not enough people are thinking about it.

[Complexity]

I just feel the need to point out all these "unblockable" set ups don't work if your opponent has 50 meter, period. Like REALLY need to point that out as something, because not enough people are thinking about it.

Well that's why Rise excels specifically against Shadow characters who have no burst and also no meter after a Shadow Berserk combo. She also has charm to deny Shadow Berserk.

[Anne]

Not really, if a shadow character berserks you, you're probably dead anyways. They get enough meter to usually have 50 by the time you have the set up, and they'll take the 50 to get out of your set up and then start whatever they want on you. Charms nice but it's not a huge amount vs shadows. Not a significant advantage over shadows specifically, not seeing it.

[Complexity]

It's not significant but she does a lot better against Shadows IMO.

Anyway, the UB setups are in the end just gimmicks. When people learn how to keep meter when fighting Rise it will probably quickly become irrelevant.

[Anne]

Eh, I just think it's pretty weak reasoning.

Unblocks will have their moments, just not as much as people are apparently wanting. I'm more curious as to where delayed laser set ups and the optimal outputs are going to go. Her gatlings are actually super godlike, up there with the best in the game. Not enough attention on that, forcing somebody to block, then just using gatlings to force respect then woops Rise hit you.

[Justice7541]

Also keep in mind that it costs them 50 meter to get out.  It's not free to escape the unblockable.  Which means if you do a combo into an unblockable setup you're basically forcing them to take all the meter they just got from the combo and burn it to escape.  Especially if you're Shadow Rise and you can do something like meterless scan combo > safe note set oki > whatever > rampage > 2b (note detonates) 22a+b 5aa 214214c+d which means they HAVE to counter roll to escape.  Meanwhile you've still got like ten seconds of Rampage remaining so if you touch them again they have to burn another 50 (if they even have that much) or pretty much eat 5k.

 

It's not a free unblockable like you're Kokonoe or something but having so many guaranteed setups where the ONLY way out is to burn meter is pretty good.

[Anne]

I think you forgot the part where Rise has to recover.

[Justice7541]

Counter roll takes a really long time and has a long recovery, I think you're at least still neutral if they counter roll on reaction to the superflash.

[Anne]

Counter roll takes a really long time and has a long recovery, I think you're at least still neutral if they counter roll on reaction to the superflash.

Yeah that's bad lol You don't want to trade that meter and put yourself at risk or back in neutral.

[TD]

It's not significant but she does a lot better against Shadows IMO.

Anyway, the UB setups are in the end just gimmicks. When people learn how to keep meter when fighting Rise it will probably quickly become irrelevant.

Everyone does well against shadows, not just rise. Liz can straight kill them in one combo, consistently. Once again rise only gets a chance (that dwindles by the day) at a chance for 5k. That's not a typo, assuming you get the unblock you still have to hit most/all of the notes perfectly...

I'm probably moving on today once I get Marie, but Anne is right. The reward is great but there are too many factors against rise and all her gimmicky setups. If she didn't have note oki, I would barely even consider her a setup character at all. Not to mention I've never heard of a set play character? (and I know what set play itself means, just not why or how rise is this sort).

Delay 22a on oki can be disrespected, not exactly on reaction but it isn't hard to do. Frankly I'd stick to note or scan+disk oki and use lighting every once in a match.

On a positive note, lightning does set up a wall of sorts. Once it rains down she can setup a 5d or 2d against even zoners because their projectiles will get eaten. If they cannot teleport, possess a beam, or otherwise get to you while bypassing the lightning, she basically gets a free run in and mixup. That's like the best thing about her IMO besides actually getting a scan, this is a fairly consistent thing against most characters. Same thing of they are caught blocking lightning in the air, except if they are close they can hit her out of 5d recovery if she isn't careful to do it early enough. So delay lightning oki does have it's merits if it happens to be respected.

2d and 2c can be used instead of 5d.

And agreed on her gatlings being good. I'm not sure if they are top tier like that, they could be I guess? The only issue I have with her pressure is that it mostly seems to be either frametraps or sneaking in highly plus moves like 2c. After that she seems rather tame. Crossups aren't too hard to block and she doesn't have the best throw game out there. Thank goodness for jb. Maybe I'm missing something here though.

[Justice7541]

Note oki is crazy good though. Guaranteed meaty into guaranteed lockdown (2c) into a pretty legit mixup that also has the potential to convert into an unblockable for massive damage if the opponent has no meter.

It's not quite sweep 5d but it's the closest we're probably gonna get in this game.

[Anne]

That's pretty good pressure for P4U, stagger/grab that if it's over respected turns into a set up. Like, I think Rise is actually pretty good with her pressure and set ups, I just think people are looking for more reward in spots where they should be just locking people down.

And note oki is actually really stupid good. I want note oki > fish the majority of the time.

[Justice7541]

Honestly I think if you don't like Rise's offensive game you're probably not going to be a huge fan of Marie's either.

[TD]

Doubt it. Marie is already tons more interesting and competitive. I'm going to be m.i.a for now. Maybe once this char is figured out more I'll come back and try again.

[Justice7541]

It's your choice but from what I played Marie doesn't have as good normals for pressure as Rise and her setplay/oki is also weaker.  She has better zoning to compensate but she's still not really a zoning character.

 

Rise having a low-hitting, advancing 2B where mostly everyone else (other than a few characters like Yu and Sho) only have an upwards AA gives her a lot of strong options that are more or less unique to her.

 

Also on a totally different note Shadow Rise can't do 5AA 5B 2B 5C 5B 2B 5C Rampage?  What's up with that?  Rampage just doesn't happen period.

[Loli Bacon]

I just feel the need to point out all these "unblockable" set ups don't work if your opponent has 50 meter, period. Like REALLY need to point that out as something, because not enough people are thinking about it.

 

Yeah, I know. That's why you use it when they don't have the meter. If they are saving their meter specifically for this setup, they aren't using it for damage or CA during pressure, so it gives us more leeway to do what we want a bit easier. It's not guaranteed, but if they don't have burst or 50 meter, it's nearly fool proof.

[Justice7541]

Anyone got some good tech for corner mixup once you've got them in lockdown?  i.e. after blocked 2C or lightning or something.  I've mostly just been doing empty jump low 2B/airdash j.B stuff but I'm wondering if anyone's figured out anything really ambiguous or tricky.

 

Also, if anyone has the time and wants to test something for me, can you see if it's possible to safejump Rise's DP and/or cancel i to DP/any other invul move upon triggering it?  My friend kept trying to safejump it with Minazuki and it wasn't working.  I'd also expect to have seen something DP out on reaction too if it was possible to do so, since the hitstop is so long.

 

My guess is that it works sorta like Hakumen's Yukikaze (not his regular counters) where you actually get locked in hitstop once you touch her shield, in which case it's actually really good since every other counter in this game can be safejumped.

[Loli Bacon]

It can easily be safejumped

[Justice7541]

Guess he was just doing it wrong then.  I'll give it a shot myself when i get home just in case.

[Complexity]

You can DP her DP but it's hard though.

[Loli Bacon]

This Chie I play against all the time only ever safe jumps it. Without 50 meter, the move is pretty much useless.

Anyone have any good setups with Risette Field? I've done Roll > Explosion, but I can't find a proper combo from it. What about 2B anti-air? j.B counterhit? I need better routes. My average damage is about 1.8k, and it's hard enough to hit people what with her lack of mixups and all.

[Complexity]

This Chie I play against all the time only ever safe jumps it. Without 50 meter, the move is pretty much useless.

Anyone have any good setups with Risette Field? I've done Roll > Explosion, but I can't find a proper combo from it. What about 2B anti-air? j.B counterhit? I need better routes. My average damage is about 1.8k, and it's hard enough to hit people what with her lack of mixups and all.

Field explosions I just wait for the field to expire then 5c 22a.

For AA 2b I guess 2b 5c 236cd or 2b 5c 22a?

Air to air j.b is pretty hard to convert even on CH so normally I go for j.b j.c j.236cd land dash 2b(1) 5c and hope it combos. If you mean ground then just do j.b 2b(1) 5c 214b if he's standing and your normal crouching confirm if he isn't.

Rise's damage is actually pretty high if you can hitconfirm like a god.

 

Anyway, I have found out that there's a gap in 5aa if you IB the first 5a, which means UB setups don't work unless there's another variation which is airtight. Also, I think Rise players should keep their burst unless they really need to use it because xx OMB 5c 22b 214a 214214cd does a lot of damage (anywhere between 6k to 8k) and works off most starters.