AtTheGates Posted August 9, 2009 Author Posted August 9, 2009 sounds good - i'll test those once i'm home.
AtTheGates Posted August 9, 2009 Author Posted August 9, 2009 the jin combo is indeed better than d.5B, 2B, sj. A,B,C - but both combos can be air teched, so a shorter combo into knockdown might be better anyway. as for the 3 seal combo - the whole point of the 3 seal combo is to combo those chars that can not be hit by another j.D, so you probably tested it against a char whose hitbox is a special case, or where a 4 seal combo would be possible anyway. btw against bang: 2D (ch), j.D, j.2369C, \/, 2D, j.B, dj.B,dj.C -> 30 damage more than with 5D, lol.
Caveman Posted August 9, 2009 Posted August 9, 2009 if you aren't using seals, i have been using: 5A, 5B, 2B, 623B, d.5B, 2B, 7B, 623B - 2833 damage and not air techable. the jump back and combo into the firepunch increases the untechable time for some reason. You can actually do 7A, j.B, 623B and get a knockdown...but it wasnt consistent for me. you can also followup with a 5B (3010) if you want to try for a tech trap or go straight for bumper/oki stuff. This works on every character except carl and the d.5B, 2B can be difficult on taokaka, rachel, etc so I use a different combo on them: 5A, 5B, 2B, 623B, d.5B, j.A, j.B, 623B - 2663 also not techable and you can use a 5A (2718) to bait an airtech. for both of these you can follow up with a 2C, 623B(, d.5B) if they dont "emergency" roll for 3253 (3343 with d.5B)
ShoMeYaMoves Posted August 9, 2009 Posted August 9, 2009 the jin combo is indeed better than d.5B, 2B, sj. A,B,C - but both combos can be air teched, so a shorter combo into knockdown might be better anyway. Really? I was doing the j.C immediately after 6C and it looks like it won't hit, but it does and the combo counter doesn't grey out. Thanks for the tip on the 3 seals combo.
AtTheGates Posted August 9, 2009 Author Posted August 9, 2009 Really? I was doing the j.C immediately after 6C and it looks like it won't hit, but it does and the combo counter doesn't grey out. sorry, what i meant was: it's air recoverable, it doesn't knock down. ignore the comment ^^
WUT Posted August 9, 2009 Posted August 9, 2009 You can 4-seal against bang off of a ch 2d, so why gimp the combo unless you don't need the extra seal? Also, against tager, ragna, hakumen, Jin: 5c, 623b, d.2b, 623b, d.6c, j.623b, V, 2c, oki. 3339 damage.
Reioumu Posted August 9, 2009 Posted August 9, 2009 You can 4-seal against bang off of a ch 2d, so why gimp the combo unless you don't need the extra seal? Also, against tager, ragna, hakumen, Jin: 5c, 623b, d.2b, 623b, d.6c, j.623b, V, 2c, oki. 3339 damage. You can also do pretty much the same thing on the same characters with CH j.D 2B 623B as shown by Daioucho, but yes, triple super crash combos are mad sexy.
AtTheGates Posted August 9, 2009 Author Posted August 9, 2009 You can 4-seal against bang off of a ch 2d, so why gimp the combo unless you don't need the extra seal? wasn't sure about the 4-seal against bang, that's why.
WUT Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 Well you can actually do it off of practically any launch. Starting with 2a, 5b, 2b, 623b into combo does 2399 damage. It's more practical for a crouching combo, as a majority of the list that can be hit by three fire punches have more damaging while standing combos. 2a, 5b, 2b, 6c, j.d, v, 6a, 623b, d.6c, j.623b, v, 2c deals 2662, for example.
ShoMeYaMoves Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 Quick note: the Dora RC'd throw combo listed as only for Arakune works on everyone. (except for the 623B at the end.) It works in the corner too, except it's easier. You j.D immediately after the rapid without airdashing. This is a rapid cancel I actually find myself using alot to get more damage off the throw, although you could always just cancel the throw into a web nail before the hit and go directly into daifunka, which does more damage.
ShoMeYaMoves Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 Some impractical but awesome 6C combos against Category 1 characters while messing around in training: 3386 damage, 1 seal: 6C, 623B, RC, late 5D, j.A, j.B, dj.B, dj.C 3792 damage: 6C, 623B, RC, airdash forward, j.D, 2B, 6C, j.b, j.c 5716 damage: 6C, 623B,RC, airdash forward, j.D, 6A, 623B, daifunka if you're close to the corner, you airdash back slightly instead. If you're fully in the corner with Hakumen you double jump the 623B then do a late roman cancel that turns you so around you can link to daifunka (which you couldn't normally do in the corner lol) but you link with 2B instead of 6A since you have less time. With Tager you just do a small airdash backwards so that the j.D knocks him down behind you to do the same thing. Can't link to daifunka from the corner with this for Ragna though =(
RPGsFTW Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 I don't think I saw this mentioned, or maybe I was too lazy while looking, but here is a combo against Tager and Haku-Men. Possibly Ragna seeing as he is a category 1 guy, and maybe the category 2 people if I test more. 5A > 5B > 2B > 6C > jump cancel(I don't usually have to say this) > j.D > 2B > 6C > j.C/ j.B > j.C? 3000+ damage? 5A > 5B > 2B > 6C > jump cancel(I don't usually have to say this) > j.D > 2B > 623B > Daifunka 4000+ damage? 5A > 5B > 2B > 6C > jump cancel(I don't usually have to say this) > j.D > 2B > 623B > d.5B? to air combo? Sorry about some unsure-itys. I've done the first two combos though. The last one I assume works with a dashing 5B, but I'm not sure if it does, since I forgot to test it. I'll try them out again later.
ShoMeYaMoves Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 I don't think I saw this mentioned, or maybe I was too lazy while looking, but here is a combo against Tager and Haku-Men. Possibly Ragna seeing as he is a category 1 guy, and maybe the category 2 people if I test more. 5A > 5B > 2B > 6C > jump cancel(I don't usually have to say this) > j.D > 2B > 6C > j.C/ j.B > j.C? 3000+ damage? 5A > 5B > 2B > 6C > jump cancel(I don't usually have to say this) > j.D > 2B > 623B > Daifunka 4000+ damage? 5A > 5B > 2B > 6C > jump cancel(I don't usually have to say this) > j.D > 2B > 623B > d.5B? to air combo? Sorry about some unsure-itys. I've done the first two combos though. The last one I assume works with a dashing 5B, but I'm not sure if it does, since I forgot to test it. I'll try them out again later. First one is the standard seal-less BNB against category 1 and 2. (category 2 has dj.D instead of j,D) Second one is category 2 BNB daifunka combo, with category 1 you can replace the OTG 2B with a 6A. Last one isn't a good idea since they'll tech out right after the d.5B if I remember correctly. Stick with the first one if you don't have heat (and don't want to waste nails) and the second if you have 50 heat or more.
WUT Posted August 10, 2009 Posted August 10, 2009 Because someone asked for it ages ago and I forgot until today, characters that can be hit by 5d, j.d: nu (needs ch) tager (needs ch) litchi taokaka Noel ragna (have to do sj.d on ch) Arakune (have to do sj.d on normal hit or just delay j.d) bang (not on ch) Hakumen
RPGsFTW Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 @ShoMeYaMoves: Can you do more damage to a category 1 character by doing the 6A instead of 5B, or is it just an alternative to the 5B? And yeah, I'd kinda expect that of the 3rd combo, the tech that is. Like I said, I'll practice on those a bit more and see how those turn out. I'll probably stick to the 1st combo against category 1 characters. I'm glad to hear that there are better BnB alternatives the the crap that I've been using. I've been stuck with muscle memory in 5A > 5B > 2B > 2C > 2369C, 2B > 6C > air combo/grab and I've hated always being in the habit of doing it. Thankfully I have better combos that I can use which also don't waste a nail on 2300-ish damage.
ShoMeYaMoves Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 @ShoMeYaMoves: Can you do more damage to a category 1 character by doing the 6A instead of 5B, or is it just an alternative to the 5B? And yeah, I'd kinda expect that of the 3rd combo, the tech that is. Like I said, I'll practice on those a bit more and see how those turn out. I'll probably stick to the 1st combo against category 1 characters. I'm glad to hear that there are better BnB alternatives the the crap that I've been using. I've been stuck with muscle memory in 5A > 5B > 2B > 2C > 2369C, 2B > 6C > air combo/grab and I've hated always being in the habit of doing it. Thankfully I have better combos that I can use which also don't waste a nail on 2300-ish damage. Yeah, 6A does more. Make sure you have time to do it though, sometimes you won't if you had a 2D on an aerial foe and you have to jump higher to knock them back down with j.d. My favorite BNB is 5A>5B>2B>623B>d.5A>5B>j.A>j.B>623B
Reioumu Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Eh I still prefer to use the standard 5A 5B 2B 2C 6D 6239B -> oki. Though I might start using more of 5A 5B 2B 2C 623B -> whatever. Follow up with 5A 5B, etc I'm still not comfortable with letting my opponents air tech, though I'm not too used to punishing them (though I do it on occaision) I usually just keep em to the ground where Bang's oki shines IMO.
ShoMeYaMoves Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Eh I still prefer to use the standard 5A 5B 2B 2C 6D 6239B -> oki. Though I might start using more of 5A 5B 2B 2C 623B -> whatever. Follow up with 5A 5B, etc I'm still not comfortable with letting my opponents air tech, though I'm not too used to punishing them (though I do it on occaision) I usually just keep em to the ground where Bang's oki shines IMO. True that. I love picking up people rolling into me with 2A>5B>j.A>j.C, it's such a snappy looking combo. The BNB from before is my favorite in terms of looks, not practicality. I agree with you 100% about oki from the basic BNB. Also, I love how you can do a d.5A at the end into a tech trap j.623C sometimes as a mixup.
AtTheGates Posted August 12, 2009 Author Posted August 12, 2009 updated the first post with the throw RC combo against everyone. will look through the thread today some more and add the stuff you guys found. edit: researching 5D, j.D combos right now - some really nice stuff is possible off of that setup. either just go for 2B, 623B, super, or go for a nice and juicy 4 seal combo. will post the combos soon, and hopefully some realistic setups for the 5D (i already have one for bang, will be a longer article i guess).
AtTheGates Posted August 12, 2009 Author Posted August 12, 2009 I thought the throw rc combos were old >.> i made a mistake and assumed 5B, 6C otg against the j.D only worked against ara. anyway, here are the 5D combos. i talk about the setup vs. bang in detail here. 5D & 5D Counterhit Combos: inspired by WUT's list of which chars can be hit by 5D,j.D: nu (needs ch) tager (needs ch) litchi taokaka Noel ragna (have to do sj.d on ch) Arakune (have to do sj.d on normal hit or just delay j.d) bang (not on ch) Hakumen against everyone:5D, j.D, \/, 2B, 623B, 2363214C [50% Heat, 2 Seals] 4517 damage 5D, j.D, \/, 2B,6C, dj.B,dj.C [2 Seals] 2897 damage against Taokaka: do dj.B,dj.623B at the end. 2995 damage against Arakune, Bang (corner), Tager (corner) add a dj.623B at the end 3220 damage against LITCHI, NOEL, BANG, RAGNA, HAKUMEN, V-13*: *= CH only, delay j.D after the first jump. 5D, [j.D, j.2369C, \/,]x3, 5C,2C, 623B [4 Seals, 4 Shuris] 3277 damage 5D, [j.D, j.2369C, \/,]x3, 2343214C [50% Heat, 4 Seals, 4 Shuris] 4016 damage 5D, [j.D, j.2369C, \/]x2, 5D, j.B, dj.B, dj.C [4 Seals, 3 Shuris] 3133 damage against TAGER:5D(CH), j.D,j.2369C, \/, d.6C,j.D,j.2369C, \/, d.5C,5D, sj.C [4 Seals, 2 Shuris] 3348 damage 5D(CH), j.D,j.2369C, \/, d.6C,j.D,j.2369C, \/, 2363214C [50% Heat, 3 Seals, 2 Shuris] 4165 damage against TAOKAKA: 3x j.D loop possible but too hard. 5D, [j.D, j.2369C, \/]x2, 5D, sj.B, dj.B, dj.C [4 Seals, 2 Shuris] 3133 damage against ARAKUNE:5D(CH), j.D,j.2369C, \/, j.D,j.2369C, \/, 5D, j.B, dj.B,dj.C, dj.623B [4 Seals, 2 Shuris] 3336 damage MISC:CH 5D, j.B,j.623B, \/, 5B,2B,6C, j.C xx Damage this combo works after the same principle than the combos against the category 1 and 2 characters - juggle with 5B,2B,6C. I was skeptic at first whether it is ok to end a combo with j.C that high, but since dora does it, it must be ok i guess. 5D CH, wait until after hit stop, iad, late j.B,j.623B, \/, 2B,623B, 2363214C [50% Heat, 1 Seal, not against Carl, Taokaka, hard against Arakune, Bang] 4411 damage SETUPS: since hit confirming a 5D (and landing it in the first place) is not that easy, here are some realistic setups: against BANG: Setup: normal blocked 5A,5B, instant block 2B or instant block TK shuris, -> 5D, A teleport. [more coming soon]
epicdamage4673 Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 In the combo section at the beginning of this forum for hakumen the first combo off of 5a goes 5a>5b>2b>6c>9 dash>j.b etc.etc. the problem i run into is...is this dash supposed to cross to the other side or is it supposed to be canceled with the j.b fast as possible before it crosses? And i know that the notation systems numbers are always the same regardless of what side of the screen ur own but it just seems a little confusing to follow without knowing whether or not I'm supposed to cross the opponent or not....hmmm....please somebody help clarify....Also how many frames is bangs dash in furinzikan? Its got one frame startup and gives me 2 positive frames after its started up but if i dash up how many frames do i have left 1, none...? and can u punish certain moves by using this advantage and go straight into 5a furinzikan combos or is there not enough positive frames available to do so?
10stars Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 In the combo section at the beginning of this forum for hakumen the first combo off of 5a goes 5a>5b>2b>6c>9 dash>j.b etc.etc. the problem i run into is...is this dash supposed to cross to the other side or is it supposed to be canceled with the j.b fast as possible before it crosses? And i know that the notation systems numbers are always the same regardless of what side of the screen ur own but it just seems a little confusing to follow without knowing whether or not I'm supposed to cross the opponent or not....hmmm....please somebody help clarify.... Cross up before the j.b That's why i linked videos ^_^ As far as frame data, you do not have enough of a +frame advantage on use to be able to punish incoming attacks with 5a. You can 6d/5d etc to block and attack though. 5a is a 5 frame startup move. If you take it by the + frames though, it can be done against anything that's -3 I guess. There isn't frame data on the furinkazan dashes, which would actually be incredibly useful, since there's immunity in the startup of all of his dashes etc. I would like to know this myself.
AtTheGates Posted August 13, 2009 Author Posted August 13, 2009 realized today that we really need a 2D and 2D CH combo section, since its awkward to always look at the tougeki magazine part. EDIT: added a 2D section, i also fixed some errors and reformatted the tager section + i added an arakune section - both of those are just primers showing the typical enders against those chars. right now, i think it's better to sort all the combos after the first hit, not after characters.
epicdamage4673 Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 I guess that answers what i was wondering i guess but it just seems like u could bait an attack with lots of recovery or block it and then use furinkazan to punish stuff if one timed it right...hmm...i dunno.. because if that was the case i'd just go mix up pressure bang to get seals at my leisure bnb style and then to finish them off by baiting something with 50 percent tension interrupt with 5a during furinkazan and do 4000 damage on average according to your combo data that's pretty solid and it would probably kill them i would imagine at that point in the game too...that's of course with not dropping the combo under pressure obviously but i would imagine if it were possible it would make an avid bang player with 4 seals and 50 tension something to be feared. That's the way i'd like to play him which is why i asked for frame data regarding dashes....any inputs appreciated, hell you've already answered two of my question already and i don't want to be a bother..just curious is all....
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