shtkn Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 the way i see jin is Ky minus safe pokes, but with bigger damage and a good DP. I guess if i had to describe jin as simply as possible i'd say: he punishes mistakes if the enemy eats a counter hit SRK, you can really make him pay for it. If you hit him with 2D, 6D, you can do good damage from that. You counter hit him with 6B (say they do a low, wich 6B has inv. from), you can combo into 6C. They do something with some recovery far away (rachel summon pumpkin, arakune summon cloud), you punish with ice wave super. Outside of that, your rushdown isn't superstrong, and his long range moves are all pretty punishable on whiff.
kid viper Posted April 23, 2009 Posted April 23, 2009 i actually feel that jin's rushdown is pretty strong, but i agree with shtkn about jin punishing mistakes, and instant blocking makes it so much easier for jin except for A DP (i always get beat whenever i try to instant block then A DP, stupid lack of invincibility x_x)
TheSlyMoogle Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 I hear he has a 50 /50 vs V-13 and Arakune. http://sgcafe.com/showpost.php?p=5358386&postcount=167 "I mean like arcadia says that Jin a B tier character has even matchups with arakune and nu. So stuff like lower tiers beating top tiers is very possible. You just gotta know how to tie the thread and find answers to the problems they pose." Thats a good enough reason to me. Well this just basically means you're going to have to completely learn those matchups really. And to be honest I feel like Jin plays a little bit like slash Anji. He has this decent pressure that just resets into itself again and has many different options to reset into it. A lot of jins game is that pressure and just waiting for your opponent to get hit somehow and getting them back into that pressure game.
Nemhy Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 hmm does anyone mind telling me what his bad and good matchups are?
Darkhonor90 Posted May 3, 2009 Posted May 3, 2009 hmm does anyone mind telling me what his bad and good matchups are? This is completely my opinion and no offical tier list but here it goes. Arakune- 6/4 in favor of Arakune. I feel that Jin's pokes and overall momentum gets shut down very bad on a really turtly Arakune. Jin's A DP and air projectiels do him some justice but since there is always a bit of risk throwing out dragon punches and long recovery projectiles it doesn't help him alot. Bang Shishigami - 6/4 in favor of Jin. Jin's ability to jump cancel nearly all of his pokes and beat him mid to far range makes Jin an annoying character for Bang to fight. 5D is a great poke against bang. I believe Bang can't use any of his autoguard and have time to teleport and punish jin in time (Anyone wanna test?) Carl Clover - 6/4 in favor of Jin. Poor Poor Carl I think. Jin has such great tools for this matchup such as 5C,5D,2D and projectiles. Jin can easily reduce Nirvana's health with Ground Ice super and his projectiles offer great spacing game for Jin to run away. Carl spends most of his time trying to catch Jin. Jin also has dragon punches which are always scary when Carl is trying to rushdown and his D DP is freakishly fast. Hakumen- 5/5 Even. Because Jin's strings are just so easily predictable for counters Jin has to play this match very grab happy and baiting happy making less opporunitys for big damage. Hakumen deals a large amount of damage as well so at any point he can turn the match around with predicted poke or failed DP or other things in part of Jin. Jin can try to run away and play with projectiles and 5C/5D game but Hakumen can counter projectiles or break them with his sword making them nearly useless. In the end it all depends on who has more momentum and who can keep it. Iron Tager- 6/4 In favor of Jin Do I even have to explain? Jin's ability to Jump cancel much and play pokey pokey makes this matchup really annoying for Tager I would imagine. Jin's J.B and 2D are defintely big parts of this matchup. J.B can be jump canceled in case of any predicted instant block into grabs and if backdashed Jin still can jump back because J.B recovers so fast. 2D can be thrown out and even if Tager autoguards it Jin still has enough time to recover and be block the attack. Alot of this match is just simply throwing out pokes till Tager slips and eats a CH poke. Jin Kisaragi- 5/5 (Duh) This just simply wines down to who can play the character better. Litchi Faye Ling - 6/4 in favor of Litchi. Litchi outpoke Jin in every manner making Jin have to stay on defensive. Litchi has a good amount of speed and many resets so Jin making one bad mistake could led to Litchi combo into reset over and over. His DP doesn't help much because of stick wakeup and his projectiles can be autoguarded and if baited hit by AG into combo. Jin's pokes are outranged. Thankfully Jin's saving grace is his ability to deal good damage when making pokes connect and his above average tick game. But its a uphill battle for Jin. Noel Vermillion - 5/5 Even. Noel is simply too fast and her pokes just clearly outbeat yours. But her mixup is subpar to yours. Since you can't outpoke her and throw out projectiles like crazy you have to outplay her in your mixup which you excel at. Most of the match is just blocking and waiting fro right moments to fight back because her dash speed and pistol whips are simply too powerful. Rachel Alucard - 6/4 in favor of Rachel. Pumpkin wind shuts you down REALLY badly. Rachel has free approach and she deals JUST as much damage as you do and with better mixup. Once you get 50% bar Ice super is VERY good because if Rachel decides to let out anything at all she gets supered (That is if she aint on top of you already >_>). Alot of this match is simply pridicting Rachel's next move and try to beat it because honestly it really is annoying. Ragna the Bloodedge 6/4 in favor of Jin. Jin just SLIGHTLY one ups Ragna in overall game. Ragna deals much more damage then you but lacks the mixup game you have and poking game. Only real worry in this match is a well place Ragna's standing B which outpokes EVERYTHING you have. Jin has much better mixup and good damage to keep ontop of ragna and not be afraid of anything he has to do besides a bad dp (imo) and standing B. Space yourself right and fight back with 5C and projectiles. Taokaka - 5/5 Even. Taokaka can simply just walk all around you easily. Throwing projectiles for the most part is a bad idea and her pokes are really fast so trying to outpoke her is bad. But your damage is better then hers and your DP is a good tool to fight off any of her mixup shenanegens. Overall you are both going to be fighting this match clumsy and waiting for some poke to connect to start mixup. v -13- 6/4 in favor of Nu This lady just simply outranges you, out beats you and really forces you to play super smart or you die. Her ground trap enables you not to advance. Swords make it annoying to try to projectiles and overall moving correctly is really annoying to do. I would easily say this is a 7/3 for Jin but most people wouldn't agree wit me so I'll keep it 6/4 because the only saving grace jin has is that he deals good damage and since she is made out of paper once you keep on top of her its hard for her to get you off because you have tools such as Ice Super, Ice car, 2D/5D. ALL of my matchup experience comes from the people i've played at Nexus, general watching gameplay videos and trying to figure out things and discussions with other BB players.
TheSlyMoogle Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Yeah that basically describes the jin matchups pretty well.
kid viper Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 I hear he has a 50 /50 vs V-13 and Arakune. http://sgcafe.com/showpost.php?p=5358386&postcount=167 "I mean like arcadia says that Jin a B tier character has even matchups with arakune and nu. So stuff like lower tiers beating top tiers is very possible. You just gotta know how to tie the thread and find answers to the problems they pose." Thats a good enough reason to me. This is completely my opinion and no offical tier list but here it goes. Arakune- 6/4 in favor of Arakune. v -13- 6/4 in favor of Nu eh? x_x Litchi Faye Ling - 6/4 in favor of Litchi. Litchi outpoke Jin in every manner making Jin have to stay on defensive. Litchi has a good amount of speed and many resets so Jin making one bad mistake could led to Litchi combo into reset over and over. His DP doesn't help much because of stick wakeup and his projectiles can be autoguarded and if baited hit by AG into combo. Jin's pokes are outranged. Thankfully Jin's saving grace is his ability to deal good damage when making pokes connect and his above average tick game. But its a uphill battle for Jin. On this note i'd have to disagree on somethings. Although jin's pokes are outranged jin can still get in and keep litchi pressured. You just have to be alert for instant blocks. Also when you're midscreen you really don't have much to fear about litchi because her mixup game doesn't start until after she gets you into the corner. Until then stay on her. TK D ice swords is great to keep your pressure going and from there you can bait a tsubame gaeshi or an AG anti-air for CH damage. This match for me is a battle for who puts who in the corner first since jin's corner pressure isn't that much lower than litchi's. If you get litchi in the corner and you block a tsubame gaeshi, you can D DP into a 50-60% combo:v: (i actually see jin's dp as one of the advantages that jin has in the battle). I honestly see this matchup 5-5 because of the midscreen battle and the fact that jin can most certainly fight his way out of the corner.
PozerWolf Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Litchi Faye Ling - 6/4 in favor of Litchi. Litchi outpoke Jin in every manner making Jin have to stay on defensive. Litchi has a good amount of speed and many resets so Jin making one bad mistake could led to Litchi combo into reset over and over. His DP doesn't help much because of stick wakeup and his projectiles can be autoguarded and if baited hit by AG into combo. Jin's pokes are outranged. Thankfully Jin's saving grace is his ability to deal good damage when making pokes connect and his above average tick game. But its a uphill battle for Jin. *snip* Ummmmm... I have to say he is right for the most part. It's hard to get in on a good Litchi player, she can be very dangerous with the staff and can out poke anything Jin can do, really. Her mix-up game does not start in the corner, it can start whenever, that's the fucked up thing about her. Not to mention her oki game is real scary, especially when she has bar (ugh, getting cought in that Cigarette Man super every time she gets knock down, so gross). 6-4 sounds 'bout right.
Darkhonor90 Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 eh? x_x On this note i'd have to disagree on somethings. Although jin's pokes are outranged jin can still get in and keep litchi pressured. You just have to be alert for instant blocks. Also when you're midscreen you really don't have much to fear about litchi because her mixup game doesn't start until after she gets you into the corner. Until then stay on her. TK D ice swords is great to keep your pressure going and from there you can bait a tsubame gaeshi or an AG anti-air for CH damage. This match for me is a battle for who puts who in the corner first since jin's corner pressure isn't that much lower than litchi's. If you get litchi in the corner and you block a tsubame gaeshi, you can D DP into a 50-60% combo:v: (i actually see jin's dp as one of the advantages that jin has in the battle). I honestly see this matchup 5-5 because of the midscreen battle and the fact that jin can most certainly fight his way out of the corner. 1. Litchi's mixup game is far superior to jin ESPECIALLY in the coner. She has one of the best mixup hands down. 2. I didn't know that D ice destroyed her staff autoguard. I have tot ry that out. 3. Well the D Dp in the coner could be said about any character missing a Dp or any poke but the fact is that it isn't character specific or related to the matchup much. Jin's DP overall isn't amazing on wakeup vs Litchi because since Staff does all the wakeup for the most part it is 1.A weird timing for the reversal because you can't see your character getting up because staff blocks view and 2. Litchi can easily bait it since she can remain at a distance. All I'm saying is that overall Litchi has advantage and she can keep the control and pace of the match. Doesn't mean Jin doesn't have a chance. About the Nu and Arakune matchups. I know arcadia said that but I personally feel (Even stated it at the beginning) that Nu COMPLETELY destroys your approach game and distance game and Arakune can just turtle you like crazy because all you have to beat his air game for the most part is A DP which is risky and Ice projectiles which is just as risky because of long recovery time. Only thing that Jin has vs Arakune is Ice super which shuts him down completely from doing any sudden movements.
kid viper Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 D projectiles doesn't stop AG, i said that you can bait an AG out and get a CH combo from it since, just like tager's spark charge, she doesn't have auto guard on low attacks.
Discotheque Posted May 5, 2009 Posted May 5, 2009 Nu COMPLETELY destroys your approach game and distance game and Arakune can just turtle you like crazy. Jin fairs well compared to rest of the cast in this aspect, hence why its 50/50. Nu just destroys everyone's approach game, but characters like Jin/Bang who has a nice acceleration and fast dashes can approach Nu much easier than characters with dash step animations (like Carl, Hakumen). Arakune can only turtle against you well if he gets you cursed, and as Jin, you shouldn't be letting Arakune get free clouds at all.
shtkn Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 i don't find jin's speed to be all that critical to his "success" vs v13. in my eyes, jin has a few tools in this match that help out: the ability to go over some of her D attacks (ice car, 6B), he can approach in the air if he has the meter for a 236D. and he can punish some things with ice wave super once you have 50% heat. Oh and you can probably 623D stuff too if you've got the reaction speed. If you don't have meter, there's not much you can do in this matchup imo. Her 2C kills you if you're too close; her Ds can keep you pinned down if you're far; if you're close to her, but outside of her 2C range on the ground you need to deal with her 3C. So learn to block her mixups, IB her shit and try and start an offensive is all i think you can do in this match. It's like that ST match at evo I saw one year of Sagat vs Chun. Chun can use her super to go through tiger shots and hit sagat, but if she doesn't have meter, then she's has no way to attack.
Darkhonor90 Posted May 6, 2009 Posted May 6, 2009 If you don't have meter, there's not much you can do in this matchup imo. This. She can spend a good majority of the match just annoying the crap outta you and there isnt much Jin can do about it till he gets from 25-50% meter. Then he can approach safely and well. Even then you gotta hope you haven't lost like 70% health by then because the only way you gain meter in this game is by getting hit or attacking not by moving around like in GG. So he won't have meter till he has already been hit a bit or has had a few block strings.
mediterranean Posted May 18, 2009 Posted May 18, 2009 Thank you thank you. What is Jin's DP? (button combo & name)
shtkn Posted May 18, 2009 Posted May 18, 2009 Fubuki 623A/B Rehyou 623C Hirensou 623D 623A is fast but no invincibility. 623B is slower but has invincibility in the middle of the move. 623C is invincible from the beginning but is very slow (both to startup and to recover). 623D has invinciblity from the beginning, and is faster to startup, but costs 25% Heat and is still punishable on block. read the beginner guide http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5644 can a mod please delete/move these posts after mediterranian reads this since this has nothing to do with the jin vs arakune discussion?
DeathAwaits Posted June 5, 2009 Posted June 5, 2009 i noticed something. Either not all his drive moves that freeze u cost 25% when they freeze or there are certain situations when they cost 25%. can someone clear this up. thanks
shtkn Posted June 5, 2009 Posted June 5, 2009 all of his normal drives freeze only if they are the first freeze in a combo. All other attacks freeze regardless moves taht freeze: normal drives (5D, j.D , etc) special drives that cost 25% (236D, 623D, etc) throws 632146D
DeathAwaits Posted June 5, 2009 Posted June 5, 2009 but i've seen more than one freeze in a combo before.
Darkhonor90 Posted June 5, 2009 Posted June 5, 2009 but i've seen more than one freeze in a combo before. You can only freeze more then once in a combo if the freeze move you follow up with is a tension based freeze for instance. Arial 236D (3 projectiles), 236D (Ground Projectile 3 hit), 623D (Fast Shoryuken) Even if once frozen by a drive if you add one of these tension based attacks during a combo you can refreeze.
Dreadz18x Posted June 5, 2009 Posted June 5, 2009 ^^^^ good to kno i see u live down here. u went up to nexus to play blazblue yet?
shtkn Posted June 6, 2009 Posted June 6, 2009 Yes, I guess I should have been more clearer with my wording. I'll edit my post in a moment. Also I swear I sound like a broken record at this point, but freezing is explained in the beginner guide under the section "how freezing works"
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