[CS2] Ragna General Discussion

[kusanagiryu]

5b 6a from TK GH combo does not require a dash on half the cast, so try delaying 214d more.

Oh I've no problem doing the combo when the opponent is within 5B range. The problem is when I do a Tk GH from a bit further away (say, a sword swipe's distance away from ragna). I end up in a position where 5B wouldn't reach unless I dash.

[Seifuuku]

mm, if you're doing near max range TK GH then you'll probably have to delay the 214d even more & dash in 5b 6a. i think what i do is buffer the dash after 214d and just hit 6 5b.

not very helpful, i know

[kusanagiryu]

Lol, yeah I'll try that. I get the feeling that I'm probably delaying GH as much as it possibly can be delayed already, though I could be wrong. I don't really have much of a feel for these things.

[StarryShade]

Try doing Gauntlet Hades delayed in Blood Kain, if it hits them with the very back of the followup iirc that's the perfect amount of delay.

Atleast...that's how I test it

EDIT: Because alot of people seem to be having trouble doing a TK Gauntlet Hades+followup I maded a visual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hYoIi2l12g (I'm sorry in advance if I'm not allowed to post links to videos in this thread)

[MrJowshy]

Mind if i "borrow" those combo's haha and this is perfect thank you!

[Sadeyo]

All Ragna players are emo. There is no way to avoid it.

[Spirit Juice]

All Ragna players are emo. There is no way to avoid it.

I'm pretty sure I'm just an asshole and not emo, but if you say so.

Anyways, I'm not sure why you have this attitude of "game is unplayable and unbalanced so I'm quitting until it is".

[CakeWasBannedd]

I'm pretty sure I'm just an asshole and not emo, but if you say so.

Anyways, I'm not sure why you have this attitude of "game is unplayable and unbalanced so I'm quitting until it is".

People who play primarily online and lose to stupid shit because of it tend to have that mentality. Playing offline tends to make you love the game.

[Sadeyo]

People who play primarily online and lose to stupid shit because of it tend to have that mentality. Playing offline tends to make you love the game.

I play offline and online.

Texas = Arcade UFO (yay for more offline competition)

Bold part is arguable but I refuse to cause any.

Spirit Juice- I have much to say and the "BB Patch Wishlist" is like my only comfort of agreeing with some and mentally thinking is that change really reasonable. So far post provided by Heroic Legacy and FlyingVe I could agree with. My opinions are slightly voiced by them.

[Spirit Juice]

Not sure why you really feel that way. BBCS is actually pretty balanced unless you're Tsubaki or Rachel, and the recent tier list found on JBBS kind of proves that it is pretty balanced (at least in the eyes of what are probably top or good JP players). It could just be a mentality issue, but I'm not sure how long you've been playing. Newer players seem to look at small imbalances and blow them out of proportion compared to players that have been playing FGs for a long time.

[FlyingVe]

I used to play competitive smash, this game is really well balanced . This is especially true considering how much variety there is in the characters and this is only the second go around. Things changed from CT, it will take time to adapt to the new matchups. I think you will find that your experiences with CT will help you more than you think.

[Yggjrasil]

Offline gaming, I will always love Guilty Gear more than BBCS. That's just a game that I fell in love with and never will stop playing ever since I played at my first Ranbat. I know the feeling of wanting to quit the game after losing a lot online, and trust me I've felt that way more times than usual lately, and since no one around me really plays fighting games cept my older brother, (but he's mostly into Tekken and Street Fighter) I have to turn to online play. I've ran into my share of good players and mostly bad players, and players who shouldn't have wasted $45 on this game. It's hard dealing with it, I've actually grown to the point where I stopped blaming others for my losses and just try to see my weaknesses and try to get rid of bad habits. Saying that you don't like Ragna just because he's not like his CT counterpart is no excuse, hell I still use Hakumen like his CT counterpart and the same thing for Rachel.

tl;dr

Take a break from playing online, stop making lame excuses.CS Ragna is fine the way he is.

[forge5312]

Well I"ve been playing Ragna since CT and after watching my ass get beat so many times by a guy who barely uses Tager, I realized I suck real bad at BB

I think my biggest problem is approaching the enemy. Whenever I try to get a combo started I find a jab or some really quick attack leaving me vulnerable for a combo. So how should I approach my enemies? I think this is also the reason why I keep losing to Tager. My approaches are SOOOO predictable the Tager already preps a 360

After that, I also think my combo starters are too slow. If by some chance I'm able to actually get in within Rags territory, I get jabbed then combo'd away. So how do I fix this problem?

After that is if by some miracle I pull off the combo I wanted to, what do I do after? Do I back off to rush in again? Stay near the enemy like nu is to Ragna?

[Sadeyo]

Spirit Juice- Maybe I am blowing the situation out or proportion and I have yet to look at the JBBS. It just feels like the top three are not properly balanced. Bang with his safe shennanigans- 5a leading into 3k and two seals. Litchi with her insane hit stun and breaking 5k meterless from any part of stage. Ragna with his fountain of heat making all dangerous approaches really safe. Rachel was my secondly most used character right after Ragna. We could all agree she didn't deserve all the nerfs she went through. Plus I sort of sympathize for the rest of the cast challenging the top 3 as it turns out to be an uphill match for everyone of them. Honestly the top three are like in a bracket of their own.

FlyingVe- Melee had it flaws as some of the engine mechanics could be ignored with wave dashing. Truthfully I liked the first and third installment of the game. They were truly balanced.

GGJ- Sadly I have done offline gaming for like 3 years before online. 2 years of Melty Blood and one year of Calamity Trigger (+ a few months). Online was free when it was available for console. What I say to you might be similar to what I said to Spirit Juice so skim through his post. Other then that using CT as an excuse was pretty poor of me. It's just that I didn't return to the arcades for a little bit when CS was available their.

[FlyingVe]

FlyingVe- Melee had it flaws as some of the engine mechanics could be ignored with wave dashing. Truthfully I liked the first and third installment of the game. They were truly balanced.

First, Brawl has not the depth of Melee, and always devolves to a roshambo. They even had to enable items at EVO, before they dropped the game. Also, it is so unbalanced that MK had to be banned. Wave-dashing did not ignore other game mechanics but added layers of mindgames.

Second, it seems to me that you finally have a view from the top and don't like it. It was even worse in CT, the top tier (with help from jin and carl) were totally out of control. As somebody who played a middle of the road character (ragna) you had to work hard to figure out strats to beat those top characters. However, now your character is one of the elite (A tier now), so you see using every other character as a gigantic struggle. It's alot of the reason why so many jin, arakune, and nu players jumped ship. So you have two choices, enjoy your time on top, and/or pick up somebody new. The game is new and it's a great time to learn somebody else, just accept that as part of that process you going to get your ass whipped by people who wouldn't stand a chance normally (see my 57% mu win ratio).

[Seifuuku]

if you're not having fun with top tier go find someone who slaps your shit for free with a "balanced" character, and keep playing them. who gives a shit if you play a top tier character? as long as you have fun and look to improve, you can play any character you want and not be guilt tripped by people who blame tier instead of skill. tired of ragna's boring combos? use different combos. tired of his play style? play a different character. tired of losing to top tier characters with said different character? improve and find out what you did wrong.

there is nothing wrong with bitching about tiers, but bitching about tiers and blaming them 100% instead of trying to improve is terrible, imo. unless you play rachel/tsubaki (even then you can still improve.) it isn't even like ragna has absolutely one sided match ups (.. excluding bottom tier, but they have horrible match ups with everyone.)

if you're sad about losing more than you think you should with top tier.. guess what? get better and stop beating yourself up.

[Isaiah820]

Well I"ve been playing Ragna since CT and after watching my ass get beat so many times by a guy who barely uses Tager, I realized I suck real bad at BB

I think my biggest problem is approaching the enemy. Whenever I try to get a combo started I find a jab or some really quick attack leaving me vulnerable for a combo. So how should I approach my enemies? I think this is also the reason why I keep losing to Tager. My approaches are SOOOO predictable the Tager already preps a 360

After that, I also think my combo starters are too slow. If by some chance I'm able to actually get in within Rags territory, I get jabbed then combo'd away. So how do I fix this problem?

After that is if by some miracle I pull off the combo I wanted to, what do I do after? Do I back off to rush in again? Stay near the enemy like nu is to Ragna?

Well, let me start off by giving my disclaimer, I am not, I repeat AM NOT, a major authority on Ragna. I'm actually still in the workshop with him.

As far as approaching Tager, the tactic that has worked for me is to stay rushing him down as soon as I get in. The main thing is that you be cognizant of his Heat and his pattern of 360's. You really should check out the Block Strings and Frame Traps thread to get a good idea of how to apply pressure even if Tager blocks. In general, you really have to find the best approach methods per character. You're not going to approach Tager the same way you approach Jin or Hazama, etc. For instance Tager has his 360 which has some good priority on wake up while Jin can do 623A on wake up but get punished due to its recovery. Also in general, you wanna stay at least half screen away from your opp. if possible. Ragna has no options at full screen besides HF which is a little unsafe. Only use that if you know that it will connect...

[Isaiah820]

If I'm at max range, usually I just do a HF->follow-up, (RC if I have the Heat->Dash->6A...(Must be close to corner)), dash in and continue pressure... I guess it wouldn't hurt me to learn some tk'd GH combos at max range so I can start doing more damage.

[-Ladon-]

can we stop referring it to the top 3 yet and start referring it to the top two

[FlyingVe]

can we stop referring it to the top 3 yet and start referring it to the top two

Lol, you're right. Ragna is like, 6th now.

[-Ladon-]

Ragna shouldn't have been top in the first place but since he was probably the easiest to switch from CT-CS players just dominated with him early, like bang, so there's no surprise the lists were skewered hard.

in my opinion there really shouldn't be mention of a top at this point, though my own experience leads me to believe litchi feels pretty damn far ahead of the curve right now with options, but that's my own opinion

[FlyingVe]

Also, despite being 6th, he's still A tier. That's pretty good, the other characters just caught up. Everyone knew that if any character was going to move down, it's Ragna.

[Seifuuku]

ragna is #1 in net play

tager is #2 ofc

[Sadeyo]

Seifuuku- You are correct.I am really bitching about tiers now that I look at it. It's a poor argument to some. Your whole post is harsh but true. Yet I have my own conflicts with Litchi and Bang performance. Some of it deals with Ragna. Yes I play Rachel. I'm pissed about her changes too.

-Ladon-- Your not really going to trust the opinion of 6 random players are you? Might as well be another Half a year before another list is made providing all DLC characters and Mu. No promise that list will be accurate either.

[Spirit Juice]

Ragna not being S tier anymore makes perfect sense to me. Stop looking at things subjectively and start looking at them objectively.