[CS2] Ragna General Discussion

[Yuai367]

Anybody want to do the XBL 3V3 Same Character Tourney with me? Just pm me or whatever for names or questions and i can add you to the list. I'll update the list on this right here, but we could possibly add-in substitutes in case some aren't online or make another team if possible.

Team 1:

1. Yuai367

2.

3.

Team 2:

1.

2.

3.

Team 3:

1.

2.

3.

Here's a link to the topic just in case:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?9832-XBL-3V3-Same-Character-Tourney.-Shake-off-October-Rust/page7

[Sadeyo]

Thanks for the few fights Ladon. Don't know if you recognized me last night but beastly Ragna even if it was one match. More ticked I ate two possibly three pink throws even after attempting to tech them. America lol.

Great job with the Hazama. Much regret we both dropped combos in those two fights but three of them costed me the victory. Maybe I'm doing the input too quickly. Was just glad to encounter an experienced player.

Genebie, 5d is unsafe. Use it with caution. 5b 5c 5d won't win everything.

GammaGearJustice, I don't think we had a chance to fight even though we where chilling in the same room for like half an hour. Was looking forward to using my Rachel against your Ragna. The whole room was about to use Rachel.

[Yggjrasil]

My Rachel trolling fails miserably

[bojador_pt]

Where can I find which normals can cancel into another? And some guide to read the frame data?

[VR-Raiden]

Revolver Action Chart (from CT):

http://blazblue.byethost13.com/bbct/characters/ragna/bbct_ragna_revolver.html

only new one is 2C > 6C.

and I think there are errors in the chart, but it is mostly correct. 6C can go to 6D on block/hit, and 3C can go to 5D on block (not only hit).

CS Frame data:

http://dustloop.com/guides/bbcs/frameData/ragna.html

[ioKain]

Hmm, haven't actually checked this out yet. 1-29 invul. on Black onslaught. Bet you can use it to IB, interrupt some block strings. I was playing my brother's crappy Jin sub the other night and I IB'd his 2C and threw Black onslaught. He threw out Jin's DP, 623B?, the DP where Jin kinda crouches and it's almost vertical. The DP went right through my start up animation and I CH him ftw. Was awesome....

[bojador_pt]

Thx VR-Raiden.

What should I retain from this frame data? I ask this because since cancel normals into each other what's importante about frame data? Is it the Untechable Frames?

[bojador_pt]

I need help understanding a concept.

Take these 2 combos:

1. (not in corner) 623C -> 236C -> delay 236C, (dash) 5B, 6A (HJC), j.C, j.D (JC), j.C, j.214C, 6B

2. 5B+C, 214B -> delay 214D, dash 5B, 6A (HJC), j.D (JC), j.D, j.214C, 5D (1st hit), 214A -> 214D

Damage: 3029, Difficulty: **

On the 1st one the (dash) means the dash may be optional correct? But on the 2nd one I know that you can connect 5B after 214B -> delay 214D without dashing, so what does this dash means?

[-Ladon-]

snip

dloops? np

fatal 22c loops? np

online jayoku combos? fuck it

[-Ladon-]

to make it universal against all characters the dash is required, certain characters a non-dash 5B-6A won't connect on after GH because of their hitbox

also, it helps lining up the belial

[Seifuuku]

bk loops? sure

online double jayoku? sure

fatal 22c? hell no

._.

[Zeromus_X]

Fatal 22C is easy mode

Doing regular double 22C combos is

[Seifuuku]

the 5.7k is easy

6030 is really hard for me

im a net player so i dont think i will ever use non fatal double 22c combos

[bojador_pt]

to make it universal against all characters the dash is required, certain characters a non-dash 5B-6A won't connect on after GH because of their hitbox

also, it helps lining up the belial

Ok. Thx Ladon

[Sadeyo]

Say Ladon. You understand how my Ragna fights sometimes. How come you never attempt to IB my approach when your playing as Ragna or either Hazama? Plus your 5d dc j*5b blue beats a lot.

Same for Zeromus who I fight at least 3~4 times out of the week.

[VR-Raiden]

What should I retain from this frame data? I ask this because since cancel normals into each other what's importante about frame data? Is it the Untechable Frames?

Even though moves cancel into eachother, it's good to know how much advantage/disadvantage you are after any move, because you might not always want to/be able to cancel to something else. Probably the most important things to note are Startup and Frame Adv, and what any special properties are on moves/when they activate (like invulnerability). You can look at other character's frame data to see how you can punish things if you know the startup of your moves and the frame adv of theirs, or you can always just use record feature in training and try stuff yourself. Keep in mind an Instant Block reduces block stun by 5 frames, so your frame adv. will be -5 the normal value.

and here's something totally random I found while messing around, vs Carl do 2D without moving from starting positions. It misses, unless you press 2D right as he lifts his pinky. I guess his hitbox moves forward ever so slightly during his standing animation, kinda funny.

[-Ladon-]

Say Ladon. You understand how my Ragna fights sometimes. How come you never attempt to IB my approach when your playing as Ragna or either Hazama? Plus your 5d dc j*5b blue beats a lot.

Same for Zeromus who I fight at least 3~4 times out of the week.

2 bar connection>n

[Shakugan]

So does spamming hells on A-11's block legit? I have random people do it then dp.

[Seifuuku]

instant block and punish with a 9 frame or less start up move, block it and bait the dp if they go for dp gimmicks..

hf on block is never legit

[Arvoyea]

So, is it alright to have blockstrings involving 2D? I have practiced and so far good enders are that, 2C (if they decide to do something so I can get a fatal counter), 3C, 5D-> dash cancel, and Dead spike.

[MashButtons]

Nothing involving using 2D is safe. Even if you rapid cancel it (thus making it safe on block) the startup is slow and obvious enough that you could be poked out of it...but that would require a great read by your opponent.

2D is for if their trained to block high, it can be worth the risk/reward to throw out 2D at certain distances (aka as long range as possible) since does lead into good damage, meter gain, and oki. If they IB (or are a character that can punish 2D regardless of distance), RC it. But it's really not something to use in blockstring. If you want a blockstring low, 3C and 2B are much better choices, since both are cancelable into something that is safe (2C, or a jump cancel).

[Seifuuku]

you use 2d for a long range low/jump frame trap/primer breaker.. it is always a good idea to have meter to RC it, or at least space yourself far enough so that you might not be punished.. very unsafe on block and at least half the cast can punish it on regular block at any range

[bojador_pt]

So I've been working on some combos and I need some help.

I'm trying this in the corner: 5B, 5C, 5D, dc 6A, HJC.C, j.D, BE, 6DD, JC.C, BE, 5D, D.ID.

What's the best way to input the HJC and the JC? I'm doing 39 for the HJC then holding 3 again during the J.C, J.D, then I do 9C to JC again and go from 9 to 4 for the BE.

Another problem is connecting the J.C after the 6DD. I do 6DD (I press D D twice almost together) and then 9C for the JC and roll back to 4 for the BE. Should I press 9C right after the 2nd D hits or should I delay it? Because most of the times J.C whiffs.

Can someone break this apart and tell me the best way to do this? Because I'm worried that I might end with some bad habits.

Now some more simple stuff that I haven't fully understood.

- What's 6D whiff D and what is it for?

- Do I need to be point blank to do 5B, 5C, 5D, dc 6A? Sometimes 6A doesn't connect and I want to know if I'm messing the link or not?

- Is 623C, 236C, delayed 236C, 5B, 6A char specific? I have problems connecting the 5B, 6A and even the 6A without the 5B. I try to delay the last 236C as much as possible and I know it must be done midscreen.

[VR-Raiden]

I'm trying this in the corner: 5B, 5C, 5D, dc 6A, HJC.C, j.D, BE, 6DD, JC.C, BE, 5D, D.ID.

What's the best way to input the HJC and the JC? I'm doing 39 for the HJC then holding 3 again during the J.C, J.D, then I do 9C to JC again and go from 9 to 4 for the BE.

For the HJC I usually do 19 or 29. After that there isn't really a reason to hold 3 but as long as it doesn't hurt you're inputs it doesn't matter. Same deal with how you're doing BE, all you need is 214 but if going from 9 works for you go for it. but in this combo, I recommend using 3C instead of 5C so you can get the 22C ender.

Another problem is connecting the J.C after the 6DD. I do 6DD (I press D D twice almost together) and then 9C for the JC and roll back to 4 for the BE. Should I press 9C right after the 2nd D hits or should I delay it? Because most of the times J.C whiffs.

You need to jump cancel to the j.C as fast as possible. This is usually where it seems the combo drops if you started from something you can't do a double BE combo from too.

- What's 6D whiff D and what is it for?

6D cancels into j.D. If you don't cancel to j.D, 6D takes about a year to recover. If you cancel to j.D low enough that it doesn't have time to come out, you cancel the recovery from 6D and are only left with the landing recovery from j.D. This can lead to mix ups, because they have to block j.D high, they block high by default after blocking 6D. Whiffing the j.D then doing a low can catch them if they don't react fast enough, or doing a 6B or something if they do block low after seeing your j.D whiffed.

Honestly, this is a pretty weak mix up though. If they barrier block the 6D, it pretty much destroys lots options. Also, if they just mash jab when they see the j.D whiff it will hit you out of almost anything you can do.

- Do I need to be point blank to do 5B, 5C, 5D, dc 6A? Sometimes 6A doesn't connect and I want to know if I'm messing the link or not?

You do need to be close for that to work. If you can see you're out of range of 6A after dash cancelling the 5D, you can do 5C(SJC) > j.C.

- Is 623C, 236C, delayed 236C, 5B, 6A char specific? I have problems connecting the 5B, 6A and even the 6A without the 5B. I try to delay the last 236C as much as possible and I know it must be done midscreen.

If you want to just do 6A you have to do the last 236C with hardly any delay. 5B > 6A isn't character specific, you just have to time the 236Cs correctly. It's not really delaying the last 236C as much as possible, but it is a significant delay. Basically you want them to be slightly above ground once you've recovered from landing. Watching it in a vid would probably help.

[bojador_pt]

This is usually where it seems the combo drops if you started from something you can't do a double BE combo from too.

Thx again VR-Raiden.

Just one thing though. Is it possible to do a double BE in that combo? And how can I know what combos can be double BE'ed and the ones that can't? Without memorising them I mean; is there a rule or something?