[CPE] µ12 General Discussion

[C0R]

->new totsuka: good combo of CP and CS strengths, it travels fast enough to stuff things and bounces slow enough to be really plus.

->drive startup is more than understandable, otherwise she would have infinite blockstrings with stein gatlings, definitely still good

 

"That really makes J.steins dangerous if you don't compensate for the change I suppose?"

 

-> I guess? Why wouldn't you?

 

Steins are better.

 

Zoning is better.

 

Because it's never been just the steins or the specials, it's been the combination of those and her normals. The gain of whiffcancels and buffed totsuka far, far, far outweighs the negligible stein startup.

[bakahyl]

How is mu's overall damage? I am not saying that her corner damage is worse since it looks silightly higher but based on the footage, her average damage seemed lower to me because of the worse damage on air hits (knockdown on j.2c, losing 5c>6c without CH etc.) and minor things as 6b not forcing a crouching state which causes things like CH 5b>6b>6c or 6b>6c on standing opponent not working

Also what about her overall corner carry after losing ikutachi as the main source

[C0R]

How is mu's overall damage? I am not saying that her corner damage is worse since it looks silightly higher but based on the footage, her average damage seemed lower to me because of the worse damage on air hits (knockdown on j.2c, losing 5c>6c without CH etc.) and minor things as 6b not forcing a crouching state which causes things like CH 5b>6b>6c or 6b>6c on standing opponent not working

Also what about her overall corner carry after losing ikutachi as the main source

Damage is fine, I think it'll be higher in the end with more combo development.

 

6c in combos is actually way batter due to them reverting the prorate to CS status. midscreen route is like (crouch 5c 6c 2d 6b(2)>stuff)

 

You can link 5a after j.2c if you hit it just right!!!

 

6b(1) might be her best close range punish, it's a fatal now and has different prorate than the overhead hit!

 

Corner carry looks the same, IAD stuff still works.

[StylisH]

Have you played the Tager MU yet? If so, how does that fare for us?

[C0R]

It's a joke, continues to be a joke I should say. I mean you might not want to fish for 5d 5c in neutral because trading with sledge is a bad idea but new j.2c rocks him so hard.

 

Plus there's no worries about him 720'ing you out of 6b because you can do gapless strings into it.

 

Plus Totsuka stays out longer so it's not as easy for him to sledge.

[StylisH]

Well that's a relief. Nu, Tager, and Hazama were my big MU concerns due to changes, but Nu should be about even still, and screw Hazama. Just have to figure it out. Are there any matchups that have changed much in your opinion?

[C0R]

Well there are the bad rushdown characters that are actually pretty good now, but µ never really had a problem in CS2 with high tier Makoto/Tsubaki.

[StylisH]

Yeah, Makoto players finally got some civil rights this time around, and she looks pretty good.  Thanks for the info C0R

[bakahyl]

Has the gattling to 6b changed? I haven't seen players use the old 5b > 6b and they dont seem to use 6a>6b much either as blockstrings , instead they are more likely to use 6b after 2a, 2b (not even sure if it's even a new gattling since FunyaQ got CH mashed out of it ) or some of the c normals

 

Also is Mu able to use c normals on blocked 6b or just specials and 6c?

 

edit: j.b > j.2c comboing looks like a good change

[C0R]

Everything gatlings into 6b except 6c and 3c.

 

Everything, including steins.

 

6b (either hit) gatlings into any c normal and any stein.

[pochp]

Started working on translating the mixi pages for bbcpex. Started with the corner combos one. Not sure of some of my translation attempts, put "(?)" after those I'm really not sure of. The post-okizeme combos just mean that you're starting really close to your opponent. When I say "gives you okizeme", I'm partly refering to the okizeme section. I kind of want to get these done before bbcpex comes out, I'll do midscreen combos tomorrow or later idk.

source : http://page.mixi.jp/run_page_apps.pl?page_id=303690&module_id=1722491&from=menu

BBCPEX Mu-12 Corner Combos

dl = delay

j.xd = any direction j.d

SoD = sword of decimation (63214c)

ikutachi = 63214b

() = optional/conditional

1. Basic corner combo

~SoD dash 2b 5c 2c 5d jc dlj.2c 623c (6b)(5c)2c 4d j.2c j.xd

(something about the range, I think it says you can do it from far)

you need to delay j.2c a lot

if you don't delay enough, you might still be able to pick up with 2b 5b?

4d j.2c ender is nice because if they get up asap, 4d's shot will meaty

2. post-okizeme combo (except 6b starter)

~SoD 2b 6a 4d 5c (dl) 6b 2c [5d] ikutachi (crossunder?) 6a 2c [5d] (or 4[d]) j.2c j.5d/2d

gives you okizeme

on some characters you need to add a delay between 5c and 6c or ikutachi won't hit them well (has to do with the cross up thing)

buffer the dash as you're landing from ikutachi

ikutachi is untechable until they touch the ground so take your time when doing 6a(?)

3. 6b(2) starter post-okizeme combo

6b 6c 5d dl 5c SoD dash 3c 6[d] 2c dl ikutachi (crossunder?) 2c 5[d](or 4[d]) j.2c j.5d/2d

gives you okizeme

you need to use the 5d 5c chain after 6c in this combo, so make sure you didn't use it in your string prior to hitting them.

on some characters you can replace 3c with 5c (relius, izayoi, etc.)

on some characters (azrael is known), you need to delay ikutachi

when dashing under, 2c will take input precedence if you input it correctly, so you don't get dash 3c instead

4. omohikane ender combo

~ SoD dash 2b 5c 2c 5d j.c dl j.2c 623c 6b(1) 5d 5c 2c 4d j.c j.2c omohikane

same beginning as 1. but with omo ender(?)

delay j.2c as much as possible, if you aren't sure the rest will connect, do 2b 5b instead

5. habakiri held omohikane ender

~ SoD 2b 6a 4d 5c dl 6b 2c 214[d] backdash 6c dl omohikane

if you're close enough to them after SoD, this is an easy combo you can do

you can just mash 4444444 for the backdash

sometimes you can do stretch it a bit and do 5c 6b(1) dl 4d dl 2c 214[d]

~SoD 2b 6a 4d 5c dl 6b(1) dl 4d 2c 214[d] 5d dl j.c dj.b? j.c j.2c 6c dl (set 5c) omohikane

both jumps are neutral jumps

(something about the height required concerning 6c. I think he says if they're high enough you can do 6c stein 5c super)

6. 6b starter into omohikane ender

6b 6c 5d dl 5c SoD dash 3c 5[d] dl 2c ikutachi (crossunder?) 6a 5d 5c 2c 4d j.c j.2c omohikane

omohikane version of combo 2.

the part from 6 to the held laser shot can be teched if you did it wrong, be careful

5[d] delay 2c to charge beam shot part is easy?

----

Okizeme

(note : I'll use the word Katame, as I don't know of an equivalent. I believe it means to keep the opponent at a range at which you have a clear advantage)

mainly happens from the 5[d] j.2c j.d or 4[d] j.2c j.2d setup.

if your opponent choses to emergency tech, you're approx +5 after landing

you can do microdash 2b 5b 3c charge beam comes, normal beam comes, to be massively plus frames, and go for mixup

if he delays tech, you can still do like 2b 5c dash, or 2b 5c 6b(1) 214[d]

basics

2b 5b 3c 5d 9jc [land 2b 6a 3c] or [low airdash j.b j.2c] is your mixup

if you chose to do land 2b 6a 3c (beam hits), so you can confirm into 2b, or on block go into 236d or set a stein and start katame, for example.

if you chose to do airdash j.b j.2c land 5b (beam hits), so you can confirm into 3c SoD on hit, or same as above on block.

you can basically loop this if you keep hitting them (?)

application

~ 5[d] j.2c j.d microdash 2b 5b 6b(1) 5d j.2c RC j.2c

option with meter(?)

opponent usually stands for 6b(2) so this allows the first j.2c to be blocked standing.

~ 5[d] j.2c dl j.2d microdash 2b 5b 6b(1) 5d j.2c land 5b

j.2d allows this to combo meterlessly

if they block, 2a 2a 5c (shot) 236d allows the stein to go back and forth

----

throw corner combos

meterless

throw dl [soD] dl 4d 5c 6b dl 2c 5[d] (or 4[d]) j.2c

okizeme options :

j.2c j.d 2b 5b 3c 5d jc airdash 3c/empty jump 2b

throw 6a 4d 5c 6b SoD 4d 6a 6c 5d 5c dl 8sj.2c

4d 6a is character specific

okizeme options :

j.2c j.d or delay j.2d : shot 6b(2) 6c shot (example)

50%

throw dl [soD] 6[d] 2c 5d j.c dl j.2c j.623c 6b 5c omohikane

useless(?)

100% + OD

throw delay SoD (tip) 5d 5c 2c 4d 8j.c j.2c 6c 6d 6b 3c yata omo

throw delay SoD (tip) 5d 5c 2c 6d 8j.c j.2c 6c 2d 6b 3c yata omo

need practice to get SoD (tip)

if you have OD, you can do yata > od omohikane (5300~)

or 6b ODc 3c yata omohikane (5600~)

throw 5c 6b(1) 4d 6d 3c SoD 3c jcODc 6c 4d 6d 5c yata (5[d]) omo

throw 5c 6b(1) 4d 6d 3c SoD 3c 6d 6c 6d yata (od) omo

stable version

throw 6a 4d 5c 6b SoD 4d jcODc 6a 6c 4d 6d 5c yata (5d) delay omo

throw delay [soD] 6[d] 2c 5d j.c j.2c j.623c 6b ODc 6a yata dl omo (5600~6000)

[Errol]

(note : I'll use the word Katame, as I don't know of an equivalent. I believe it means to keep the opponent at a range at which you have a clear advantage)

 

 

It's closer to pressure.

 

It's what happens when a rushdown char gets up close to you. I think it's literally to stiffen up, in other words to get them to stop abare'ing dat ass so you can attempt to land a mixup. also there's kuzushi which is directly breaking the opponent down.

[malaka47]

A long time ago that I have not followed the news of the game but is there a definitive list of changes for µ12 from version 1.0 to BBCPEX ?

[pochp]

The first post of this thread is our best attempt so far.

"Official" list of changes can be found here : http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=BlazBlue:_Chrono_Phantasma_Extend_patch_notes

[pochp]

Midscreen combos

source : http://page.mixi.jp/run_page_apps.pl?page_id=303690&module_id=1723115&from=menu

my attempt at a translation again... Some of these combos I'm like "how can it even go so long"...

-Ikutachi starter

Grounded opponent starter combos. Should be the same combos for 2b 3c RC or 5b 3c RC, but probably not if you're too close to the corner.

ikutachi 6a 6c [soD] dash 6a 6b 2c 2d 2c 6d j.c dj.c j.2c j.d j.c land j.2c (4309)

I haven't tried this one yet, but I've been told it works

ikutachi microdash 2c 2d 2c 2d j.c dj.c j.2c j.6d j.2d dash delay 6a 2c 2d delay sj.c dj.b j.c j.2c 6c [soD] dash 6a omohikane (5114)

delaying the 6a relaunch gives the air combo more stability

for the 2d delay sj.c part, wait for the shot to jump, kinda. how much you have to delay is hard to explain.

be careful of the carry (?)

ikutachi microdash 6a 6d 5c 6b delay 2c delay 2d microdash 2c 2d j.c dj.2c(?) j.2d j.c j.2c 6c 214[d] microdash [sod] dash omohikane (5135)

for delay 2d to microdash 2c, you're not cancelling

the amount you have to delay that 2d is hard to explain

if you don't delay enough, 2c won't hit

if you delay too much, j.2dj.c won't connect with j.2c because (?) (character specific)

on some characters, 214d will hit twice(?)

6a anti air starter

6a 6b 2c j.c j.b dj.b j.c j.2c 6c (tbh I think there's something missing in this combo, should be a stein set after 2c I think?)

stable part

replace j.c j.b with j.b j.c if you need to raise them higher for 6c (they'll fall at the same place, but just a little higher)(?)

1. ~6c 5[d] 2c 6d j.c j.2c

if you're midscreen, this is a good choice

you can replace 6d with 5d and j.c should still connect

if they roll back at the fastest timing, the charged 5d will make it.

if they emergency tech you should be able to ???

2. ~6c [soD] dash 6a 5c omohikane

~6c [soD] dash 3c ODc 6a 5c omohikane

easy kill combo

3. ~6c 214d microdash 2d delay 5c 2c 6d j.c j.2c dash 6a SoD (3c omohikane)

if you prefer blowing them away fullscreen

if there's a stein that is placed high there (unsure if he means "if" or "because", because the original combo part didn't include a stein, but I think it may have been a mistake)

if you recognize that you're close enough to the corner, this route can end in omohikane

throw combos

(empty)

[C0R]

Throw combos will be the same as 6a combos.

 

From what I tested anyway, full charge SoD might change that but requires testing,

[malaka47]

Thank you Pochp

[pochp]

serizawa's mixi stuff :

he says some of it is outdated and will be updating soon due to console release, but it could still give some ideas.

http://page.mixi.jp/view_page.pl?page_id=103472

6a anti air combos

6a 6b 2c 2d j.b j.c dj.b j.c j.2c land j.c j.2c

6a 6b 2c (2d?) j.c j.b j.b j.c j.2c 6c 5[d] 2c 6d j.c j.2c

this combo from Urano sets it up so the charged beam chases them no matter their tech. This is a great midscreen combo. You should also do this route from 3c RC.

6a 6b 2c 2d 2c 2d j.c dj.c j.2c j.d j.2dc land dash 6a SoD

6b midscreen combos

6b 5c 6c ikutachi dash 2c 2d 2c 2d j.c dj.c j.2c j.d j.2c land dash 6a SoD (3300)

6b 5c 6c ikutachi dash 2c 2d 2c 2d j.c dj.c j.2c j.d j.2c land 5c 2c 6d j.c j.2c (3500)

basic corner combos

2b 3c SoD 2c 5d delay 2c 5d j.c dj.c j.2dc j.d j.2c j.214d 6c

6b 3c SoD 2c 5d delay 2c 5d j.c dj.c j.2dc j.d j.2c j.214d 6c

midscreen throw combos

throw [soD] 6c 5d airdash j.b j.c 6a j.c j.b j.2c

throw [soD] dash 2b 6a 6c 5d 6b 2d 3c

throw [soD] dash 2c tachi 6a 6c 5d 2d

throw [soD] dash 2b 6a 6c 4d ikutachi 6b 3c sj.2c

throw 6a 6c ikutachi 6a 6b 3c SoD

sideswap combo

corner throw combos

throw [soD] 5d 2c 5d sj.b j.c j.b dj.b j.2c j.5d j.2c j.2d (3268)

throw [soD] 2c ?d j.b j.c j.623c ]d[ 6a 6b 3c (3431)

throw 6a 4d 5c 6b SoD 4d 6a 6c 5d 5c delay 8sj.2c (~3300)

[pochp]

Just tried it out, combos are fun. So many buttons and lasers.

I feel like j.b's back hitbox is a tiny bit smaller, stuff like jump over airdash back j.b doesn't always hit. Might just be me being tired though, lol.

[Starkaiser]

The first post of this thread is our best attempt so far.

"Official" list of changes can be found here : http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=BlazBlue:_Chrono_Phantasma_Extend_patch_notes

From that reading note, I do not be able to understand whether she is stronger tier now or weaker tier or just stay the same?

[pochp]

Although she changed a lot, she's perceived to be around the same strength, relative to the rest of the cast. However, she has a lot of potential, and with access to training mode she may become a lot stronger.

Also, forgot to post this yesterday, but this route seems good for damage and a setup on both 6a anti air and 3c RC for midscreen combos, there was indeed a 2d missing (forgot numbers, but if someone has them, for comparison's sake they could be useful. I'll just get them later when I get back from work if not) :

6a 6b 2c 2d j.c j.b dj.b j.c j.2c 6c 5[d] 2c 6d j.c j.2c

2b 3c RC 6b 2c 2d j.c j.b dj.b j.c j.2c 6c 5[d] 2c 6d j.c j.2c

[DaiAndOh]

Is there any reason why it's j.c j.b for the for the first part of the air combo instead of the other way around?

Haven't had too much time to play much but Mu's changes do seem quite unique (for me at least) and interesting to play with...

[pochp]

It's a height thing. If the height is wrong, either j.2c or 6c will whiff. I tried both and j.c j.b, while slightly harder, seems more consistent.

[KonannFriends]

Trying to do these combos but some of the notations are a little hard to understand.

I'm not a fulltime Mu player so please use move names sparingly and use imputs

Sj.b?

Ikatuchi

And those 6b starters aren't working for me. Are they fatal counters. Or is there a trick to get 5c and 6c to combo

[C0R]

Trying to do these combos but some of the notations are a little hard to understand.

I'm not a fulltime Mu player so please use move names sparingly and use imputs

Sj.b?

Ikatuchi

And those 6b starters aren't working for me. Are they fatal counters. Or is there a trick to get 5c and 6c to combo

Sj.b = Super Jump B

Ikutachi/tachi = 63214B

6b is an overhead, combos starting with 6b usually assume crouching state, which is how 5c>6c combos on ground hit.