[XRD] Sin Kiske Gameplay Discussion "Playing with Poles"

[Dreiko]

Off of raw 6H would you not be able to just 236K>623S>214S>214K>stuff as usual?

[stickystaines]

Off of raw 6H would you not be able to just 236K>623S>214S>214K>stuff as usual?

This is if you want to leave your blockstring at 6H but they get hit anyway, you can then confirm in 2P. If you want to go that route you have to at least commit to 236K, which isn't bad but might not be what you want. Its just another tool in his arsenal now.

[Dreiko]

Hmm yeah. I was thinking of doing that off of something that you punish with 6H. Though it's also a mixup tool since 236K is a low and people may not always expect having to block a low after blocking a 6H lol.

 

 

But yeah I see what you mean, situational confirms for days~

[BladeOfJustice7]

Any Sin players besides Greenix and Ken who live on the upper east coast? I want to get familiar with this matchup as much as possible.

[eirei]

Okay, so after a few hours of grinding I realised that 236[H] does not in fact need to be charged forever to wallsplat an airborne opponent, you just need to hit them while their legs are around your head level. I don't know if it has a clean hit property or what, but it doesn't wallslam at other angles unless they're grounded.

 

Suddenly everything is a lot more consistent.

[stickystaines]

Are you sure? Because i'm trying 236H on a jumping opponent and it doesn't wall splat. Also tried 236K > 623S > 236H (small charge, not enough for [H]) and doesn't work.

[Brandinoli]

Some netplay matches of myself against Eroji's Sol.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuc-ARkoUzQ

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHwOrKFTv3M

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1yFsX_H548

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLaltFFzpBA

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU91p82uwDk

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk1uzwIiESY 

[Dreiko]

Are you sure? Because i'm trying 236H on a jumping opponent and it doesn't wall splat. Also tried 236K > 623S > 236H (small charge, not enough for [H]) and doesn't work.

I think it just has 3 levels.

 

level 1: No charge at all - does not splat

level 2: A little bit of charge (can combo off of 214S) - wallsplat

level 3: Max charge (you see Sin sparking with power all around him) - causes Fafnir-like tumble on normal hit even on standing.

[eirei]

Are you sure? Because i'm trying 236H on a jumping opponent and it doesn't wall splat. Also tried 236K > 623S > 236H (small charge, not enough for [H]) and doesn't work.

You still need to charge it, I didn't mean that 236H splats on its own.

 

REGARDLESS

I figured out I was cancelling it on the first hit with amazing consistency and not getting the wallsplat because of that

 

Nothing to see here, move along

 

I think it just has 3 levels.

 

level 1: No charge at all - does not splat

level 2: A little bit of charge (can combo off of 214S) - wallsplat

level 3: Max charge (you see Sin sparking with power all around him) - causes Fafnir-like tumble on normal hit even on standing.

It only has 2 levels, as soon as it charges it will tumble if grounded/wallslam if airborne

Either way, it splats in the corner

[Dreiko]

I could swear I saw the move become much wider/flashier when held down for longer than how long it is held during the recent combo vids. Maybe it just does more damage instead of have unique hitstun properties or something. Sadly I only played at locals and I don't have the game yet so I can't test but I can definitely say that it has something that it gains, even if only in visuals, by charging it longer than how long they charge it to have it combo after 214S in combo vids.

 

 

 

I guess you may need to charge it purely for timing's sake and let it go early just to have it hit right and if you don't charge all the way it just reverts back to the uncharged state.

[Ferrio]

Anyone know what to do if you're pinned down in the corner as Sin?

[Dreiko]

Anyone know what to do if you're pinned down in the corner as Sin?

623S and 632146H have startup invincibility so you can use em in the first frame of recovery to beat things that are close enough to you to be hit by them or you can use them during holes of your foe's blockstring to hit em out of their next move.

 

Dead angles and bursts are always good too. Finally, Voltic Dein will make people move off you for a bit allowing you to get out of the corner. 214K-6 covers lots of space so use that too.

[klaww]

His P buttons are good for poking out of pressure, if you don't have meter/ don't want to risk a DP.  Wait til they jump for an overhead and 6P, or if you see a hole poke em with a 5P.

[Dreiko]

Caution with 5P, it tends to whiff crouchers completely (or at least some crouchers, I'm sure it hits Potemkin but...yeah...you get the point). I've had a plethora of jH hits into 5P confirms drop due to 5P whiffing crouchers too much. 2P is the way to go unless you really need that superior 5P range.

[Linkexelo]

Does anyone see the 5H loop in the corner ? It's a great stuff : great damage (~200 on Sol) and use a little amount of calories. I can't send the link of the video because I'm on my phone...

[Destin]

Kinkuli is correct, tested it myself. Point blank 2D>623S(crit)>214S does 103 dmg, while 2D>623S(crit)>RC>Walkback>214S does 94 and bounces them higher.

You might want to test your first part with an RC, I believe RC's have forced proration.  

[Kinkuli]

You can see the damage difference easily if you test it with jD j214S RC to dash 214S. If you hit with the head of pole, less dmg, with the middleish part -> more dmg.

[Dreiko]

I have a suggestion for whoever (prolly a mod) can edit this but I believe under the big SIN KISKE letters in the top of the page here http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/forum/306-sin-kiske/ you can edit a subtitle. Please oh dear mod make the subtitle be "Polelarizing discussions", it'd please me greatly. :D

[stickystaines]

Does anyone see the 5H loop in the corner ? It's a great stuff : great damage (~200 on Sol) and use a little amount of calories. I can't send the link of the video because I'm on my phone...

Yeah it's in the video thread. I'm not too fond of the loops where you've already used like 5000 cal doing the 214S route, but off something like 2C(3) its great since you can get 200dmg for no calories. Also helps off RCs inthe corner when you've already used some clarories. Like if you were doing a block string then went into 236K 236H and it caught them, you could RC and get a nice combo without using calories.

 

Edit: Just thought, probably better to do 214S > 236K to catch jump outs since you can go into the 5H IAD j.KSK combo if you catch them from the air.

[Linkexelo]

It's great from jD->j214S.
 

After a 236HS->214K in the corner, I use 214K[6] air dash -> jHS (2)-> jD (not combo, reset) -> j214S.
But I have some trouble to do the 5HS after the j214S on this mix-ups, but I'm sure I will find some way to do it ! But I have to work on the basics first.

[king of heart]

Hi i just tried Sin i am just wondering about some stuff!

His eating move doesn't have any recovery frames! You always get a YRC no matter when you cancel.

You can dp into the eating move on block and YRC as soon as the block stun ends!

[stickystaines]

Hi i just tried Sin i am just wondering about some stuff!

His eating move doesn't have any recovery frames! You always get a YRC no matter when you cancel.

You can dp into the eating move on block and YRC as soon as the block stun ends!

The thing is, you only get the calorie gauge filled when the green aura comes out; not when he actually eats and that is right near the end of the  animation anyway. It is good for safety though, if you feel someone is going to punish you.

 

Did some testing with (air hit) 5H > 6H > j.K > dj.SK > 5H. You need to time the 6H on different characters if you want to get it to work. The groups in this list are also in order; the higher in the group the higher you can get away with hitting them (and imo more consistent). The asterisks describe characters where if you do an air hit 214S, then a 236K will always whiff. This is good since you can guarantee  that when you get an air hit 214S you can follow up with 236K(whiff) 5S or 5H if you hit them high enough. The others you have to do a weird delay and sometimes it still hits, it's weird.

 

(Works nearly anywhere, preferably near the head though)

Sin

Pot

Bedman

 

(Upper body to center)

Axl

Venom

Sol *

I-No

Ky *

Zato

 

(Center to lower body)

Elphelt

Chipp

Ram

Millia

 

(Lower body)

Slayer

Faust *

 

(Impossible)

May

[king of heart]

J.D YRC is really good it completely stops his momentum in the air.

[xXavierx]

Couple of questions I have after playing Sin for a few days. 

 

What should I do after counterhit 236h wall bounce? It seems like you can't get much of a combo off it but you can 214p(6) and land right in front of them so maybe just some kind of oki?

 

What is the combo route after an air hit 214s, both midscreen and corner? The higher bounce seems to screw up my 214k(6) stuff.  

 

How do you convert off air-to-ground normal hits? j.k j.s and j.hs all seem to have weak hitstun and not knowing how to convert makes it hard for me to incorporate his 214p/k into pressure. Crossup j.k feels especially awkward but I know it's going to be important for mix ups. 

[edollarports]

Off a decent wallbounce you can do 236H CH whiff 236K get a followup.

Midscreen you can confirm into 236H charge, or 236K whiff 5S air combo. I'm assuming you meant off the high bounce hit. 214K~6 works too, depending on spacing/timing.

 

Sin's jump ins aren't the greatest for confirms. You kinda have to land the deep hit or the double hit to get a combo off of jump in afaik.