[XRD] Sin Kiske Gameplay Discussion "Playing with Poles"

[Dreiko]

Opening people up is tricky with Sin, you wanna do fuzzies with jH into jD/2k/grab or runup rising jD. Most of your damage WILL come through poking and hitconfirming from half screen, though. Make sure you are used to rcing a max range 236H into 6H confirms.

[Pwnzor]

Yea beak driver/stun dipper rc into 6h might as well be his bnb I'm just making sure im on the right track

[Dreiko]

Yeah that's it, just be careful against May Faust and Millia cause 6H whiffs em when crouching (and far Slash forces crouch).

[Brandinoli]

@brandolini hey I been following your bids on YouTube and so far your the most competent sin player I've seen, outside of comboes how do you go about opening up people with the character? Right now I mostly use pokes and hit confirms of beak driver,bull bash and stun dipper and what's a good solid option to do after you get the knockdown ?

 

5K > 3K gatling is really good and combos into 6HS on hit. J.D is really good for rising overhead and meaty DP is really good, especially against characters who don't have strong DPs / reversal options. Another neat thing about Sin is that it's really hard to punish Sin from spamming special moves on block if you know how to manage food meter so he can crank RISC bar REALLY well. 

214S is really slow, but you can bait blitzshield, catch jumpouts (thanks to the slow down) and dash up low / 5D thanks to YRC.

 

A lot of your damage is going to come from his neutral and anti-air game. He's really good at punishing sloppy neutral IMO. 

[Soviet Bear]

So, apparently Faust's food slightly increases Sin's hunger meter. That's a neat attention to detail.

[onemic]

Is there any way to combo of an IOH j.D other than using 214S? I cant get it to confirm off a jump cancelable normal and the challenge mode combo that has it has very tight spacing that seems pretty impractical to pull off in a real match

[Dreiko]

Thing is, if you're not in that tight spacing that would allow a dash jP or a 5H to connect, the j214S won't connect off of the jD either, so if the j214S DOES connect, take it as a sign that you can do the combo. If you're failing it you're likely overestimating the recovery of j214S and are taking too long to dash after you do it.

[onemic]

I think I phrased my question incorrectly. My problem isnt that I cant connect after a j.214S, it's that I can't connect after an IOH j.D unless I'm right in the opponents face. j.214S will always whiff if I try and do j.D after a jump canceled normal. Is j.214S the only way to connect after an IOH j.D or is there another way? If not are my only options for opening an opponent up with highs through 214S?

[Dreiko]

You can also do RC>stuff or supers, that's about it.

[Pwnzor]

Faust match up is awful, he does everything you want to do

[Villainous]

Faust match up is awful, he does everything you want to do

Try to jumping 236H to hit him when he goes to toss his head. You'll either counter hit him or detonate the bag right on top of him usually. Either way its a win win. Counter hit combo is hard to confirm because of spacing affecting the timing but you can get damage off of it too. 

Also 236S seems to have upper body in the last half of the move so you can use it to go through Faust's 5S / 5K / etc. 

Biggest issue for me is stopping low j.2K from faust. Feels pretty hard to anti air for sin. 

And speaking of matchups, is it just me or is Ky kind of bad for Sin? I feel like he has just as good of pokes as you but they're faster, and all of his pressure is outside of your DP range so there's not an easy way to get him off of you once you're cornered. I find myself just blowing all my meter on dead angles to get breathing room. Also he can just 2H every time you command jump out of a special and there's nothing you can do about it other than parry. 

[Dreiko]

Ky has shorter range than you do and 236K goes under his projectiles. Yeah if you're cornered you just have to block well but in neutral it's not that bad. Also, 2H is a pretty slow antiair, if he has time to 2H you you're utilizing the air approch wrong. 6P is what's actually dangerous and difficult to deal with. You can try using air voltic dein to call out these AAs though.

 

 

In the end it's all about having the superior neutral and confirming pokes right. Same with Faust. You can 236k under Faust far S if you are getting outpoked and you can DP his instant overheads since they tend to be close range ones.

[Villainous]

I mean what would be the correct application of command jumps outside of oki? If you do them on block pretty much anytime after a special, any competent player will anti air you for it, unless you jump install it or something and double jump to bait the anti air or back dash asap or something. Its a tool that looks good on paper but I dunno if it'll be useful for offensive purposes other than as a full screen jump or oki. 

Unrelated, but I found out you can do j.D j236236P and it'll combo. If they block you get more pressure and if they get hit you get a combo off it! Also works from further away than the normal follow up. 

[Dreiko]

No you're not supposed to do the command jumps in blockstrings, indeed. They're good for combos midscreen (off of j214S clean hit), for oki and for covering distance, that's about it. Just end stuff in 236K which is + on block and go from there. No need to go into the jumps. (and yeah I mentioned you could do supers off of jD a few posts up :P)

[Nov Ganon]

Hey guys what are some safe and unsafe block strings for sin? Like can I cancel specials into other ones to make them completely safe?

[NagorbMan]

Judging from the wiki, 236 K is + on block so you can always end your blockstrings with that. 236H is a little bit minus but you are so far away most characters won't be able to punish.

[Dreiko]

Anything into 236K or ending in 6H (so something like 2K>5K>3K>6H)  is safe.

[onemic]

Can you be punished if you eat after ending your pressure with 236K? Also what are some options you can do after a blocked 236K?(other than cancelling into another rekka) I tend to be too far away to continue pressure with 2P/2K

[Dreiko]

Can you be punished if you eat after ending your pressure with 236K? Also what are some options you can do after a blocked 236K?(other than cancelling into another rekka) I tend to be too far away to continue pressure with 2P/2K

Yes of course you will. Only when you knock someone down or RC will you not get punished for eating.

 

 

2S still reaches after 236K.

[Destin]

What is the optimal combo off i.jd 236236p super in the corner?

[Uzumakihero]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IiQgeWbS5Q I thought I found something iffy but it was just Jump Install.

[Villainous]

So if you REALLY need to eat, you can RC a beak driver and then eat. The RC extends the block stun so you have enough time to eat. Pretty useful for those "fuck can't get any breathing room" matches. If its a charged beak driver, it might even still be + on block after you eat lol

Also YRC > eat at neutral can be ok for buying time if they're full screen away, still not 100% safe though, unlike the beak driver RC version.

[NagorbMan]

Did anyone figure out any throw invuln moves? The wiki doesn't seem to list any atm.

[Pwnzor]

Need some insight on the Potemkin match up , really having a hard time with it. I don't think sin has any throw inv moves, be nice if he did though

[edollarports]

Potemkin matchup: Just poke at him. Pot has very few options to beat beak driver/catch Sin flipping around with command jump like a goofball.