[P4AU] Margaret Gameplay Discussion

[So-Called-Chaos]

She actually does have a few methods to deal against zoners so I don't get how she has trouble against them, sweep, AoA, gale slash (214 A/B AB) and dvine wind C version can be quite useful, especially since gale slash low profiles things like yukiko's fans and divine wind can blow through projectiles.

 

edit: forget to mention that sweep low profiles fans as well when the invul. kicks in

 

another edit: divine wind D version is also good becuse it absorbs projectiles before cu chulain throws his spear

[uberdeluxe]

loli bacon you are fantastic and I love you

[So-Called-Chaos]

Um so he was joking? I'm confused xD

 

edit: sweep and gale slash low profiles Narukami's Zio (finally)

[Zouf]

Finally found a follow up to J.2B.

 

air gale slash (214 A or AB) or air divine wind (236 C or CD) but no idea how to continue from there.

 

Also couple ideas on the jump ins mentioned before by hiroguy I believe.

 

J.B>J.C (J.C itself is enough) is a freaking awesome jump in, you can do things like J.B and if they're expecting the J.C and you're close to the ground, you can go right into 2A for a tricky mix up.

 

edit: also 2B first hit causes the opponent to stand on hit.

Best I found is : j.2B > j.214AB > dash 2B (only the tornado like move hits) > j.C > j.2C > j.214B for a neat 1703 damage... lol

 

This starter is incredibly bad.

 

Even on fatal I can't top over 4900 damage with HT and 125 meter. That's so sad.

 

I'm so amazed FC J.2B > 5C > 2C doesn't link. Just, why? Opponent is on crouch state and Fatal, even so 2C is so slow it won't connect.

[So-Called-Chaos]

Yeah, other than ending air combos, I'm not finding much use out of J.2B.

 

J.A,J.B and J.B are better for jump ins IMO

[Zouf]

More optimized version of the earlier combo : 

 

Midscreen or corner : CH 5C > 2C > 2D > j.22C > 214C > 5B  > 5C > j.C > j.2C > dj.C > j.214AB > 214A > 236236AB > 214214A [7124 damage / 150 meter used] 

 

Corner FC 2C > 214D > 2A > 5C > j.2C > j.22D > j.22C > 214C > 5B > 5C > OMB > 214CD > 2B(1) > 5C > j.B j.C j.2C > dj.5C > j.214AB > 214A > 214214AB [7417 damage / 125 meter]

[So-Called-Chaos]

working on some combos from sweep and combos into phanta rhei, Finally found one!

 

her sweep is actually fairly useful mid-range, becuase it low profiles, it can be used to punish narukamis who are pressuring with things like 5B in the corner but it shouldn't be used so carelessly since it's slow.

 

here's a combo from mid- range sweep: Sweep>214B (gale slash)>2B>J.C>J.2C>jump cancel>J.C>J.2C>236C (divine wind)> 236236C (phanta rhei) does 3124!

 

This is a REALLY good example of J.2B's potential in combos, similar to before: Sweep>214B>2B>J.C>J.2C>jump cancel>J.C>J.2B>J.214B.

 

does 2653, but after the J.2B, you gotta wait till the opponent falls a bit before using 214B, if you have meter, you can go into C phanta rhei after the J.2B for 2898.

 

edit: pretty sure these could be optimized further.

[Zouf]

More optimized would be without 236236C lol

 

sweep > 214B > OMC > 2C > 2D > j.22C > 214C > 2B > 5C > j.C j.2C > dj.C dj.2C > j.214A [4165 damage / 50 meter]

 

Can also OMB after 214B for the same effect. Couldn't find a way for j.214B to hit twice. Maybe with 5B pickup after 214C, but the timing is a bitch.

 

Also, 2B prorates very very poorly, you'll always want to use 5B instead except when it's not possible.

[So-Called-Chaos]

you can use 2A>5B instead of 2B after the 214B, since 5B is too slow to pick up from the 214B without meter lol

[zerosoulreaver]

I have a question. I don't have the game yet but was wondering what is her gameplan in a match?

 

I have seen a few vids of her but man it's hard to even understand what her concept is.  She seems to have some zoning but it doesn't look like Yukari/Yukiko level keepaway.  She also seems to have some attacks that put her in close range but they look so unsafe.  So I wonder if she is more poke/counterhit oriented or something.

[Zouf]

She plays kinda like Liz to me. (if that does help). Some pressure with the persona, with the command throw mixup at the end. But she's more offensive.

 

She definitely needs her counter hit to deal some decent damage, or meter, but she can't provoke them, as almost everything is negative on block. 

 

Her neutral is average, her defense is mediocre.

 

Well she's awkward, no gameplan really defined. But again i'm not the greatest player, and some will probably guide you more than me :P

[Elochai]

Well there isn't a video thread or anything so I guess I'll just leave these here . Three hours of Kubo playing Margaret vs various people:

 

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24562214

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24562289

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24562319


 

[So-Called-Chaos]

YES YES! all my likes!

 

edit: looks like you can combo after DP! YES!

[gamewizard108]

combo after dp is counter hit only of course and the combo window is a little strict.  best ive gotten is dp>j2c>jc>214AB>236236A it does 2360. pretty meh for 75 meter but i guess its good if you can kill them. 214AB hitbox seems to whiff very easily if i add another j2c or air attack to the combo, 

[So-Called-Chaos]

still it's better than nothing, just the j.2c is enough for now, there could be other, better routes, plus we don't need to super cancel like say mitsuru.

 

watching kubo with margaret is pretty riveting tbh lol

[Mooglebane]

Finally, videos. I've been waiting for this! Thanks, Elochai!

[So-Called-Chaos]

I never realized how scary god's hand can be, combined with sweep and 5D, it gives some pretty cool mix up options without risking so much, I love it!

 

edit: I like how kubo uses gale slash to get out of the corner/pressure, it's nice knowing we have that as an option.

[susano]

What are you supposed to be doing in neutral? I can do basics but her neutral is weird.

[ThatHiroGuy]

FOUND SOME REALLY COOL, ACTUALLY USEFUL STUFF. But I'll reply to the question first, Susano.

 

I guess, from watching those videos, not caring. From how that Kubo guy plays her, it seems like he just plays a solid, patient spacing game until he knows he can go in with a 5B. From 5B, a lot of options seem to open up for safe pressure.

 

5B>5A>5B>5C is what I took away from those videos. Essentially, he uses 5B to get in since it travels so far, and pretty fast. Then uses 5A only so that he can go back to 5B again. I'm not entirely too sure why he does that, but whatever. After that, technically, you could go anywhere. That's where it seemed like he gained the most leverage in his matches. You could use God's Hand, since a DP will only break your Persona, and allow for them to be counterhit. If they dodge roll it, you won't be counterhit for trying, and from what I saw, it only put them in a worse position. Sweep isn't a bad idea, if the opponent is conditioned, and you still won't be close enough to be punished for trying. Any other option works pretty well, too.

 

NOW THE COOL STUFF.

 

Kubo also uses a very basic BnB in the air. j.C>j.2C>jump cancel>j.C>j.2C>j.214B. What's really interesting about that, is the potential for a scary setup afterwords. Notice, you'll still be left airborne while your opponent is thrown to the ground. You can still act while falling. Apparently, Yoshitsune doesn't move from his position after knocking them down for quite a while. This means you can actually throw things out, and they won't even see it, since he's off screen.

 

It makes it so that your Persona is in their face while you're on the complete other side of the screen, RIGHT on their wakeup. Some things I've messed around with, after finding this...

 

-After the combo, while Margaret is falling, j.2D. Ardha will fire an ice-ball from off-screen. It'll catch people who are jumping, but if they run forward, they should be fine.

-After the combo, while Margaret falls, j.22C will throw Yoshitsune in their face. It'll be there basically right when they tech bounce. You can immediately cancel that into 2D if they jump after wakeup, and it'll catch it. Really good setup.

-Blah blah, as she falls, j.2D>2C (on the ground after you land). The effect of this is, it places Yoshitsune on the opposite side of the opponent. The Ice-Ball should be incentive for them to not do anything. As I said before, they can just run forward, but since you placed Yoshitsune on the other side (off-screen), you can throw a projectile (236C) and they'll be forced to stop and block it.

 

There's actually a lot more you can do with this knowledge. It allows you to keep a bit of a lockdown on them from full-screen after the combo. And not only that, but you can pretty much get 2k-ish damage from full-screen, with no worries of being punished for (most) things you try.

[TD]

liz seems like a good comparison to margaret. If I had to guess she would be a well rounded fighter with not so great tools for every situation. so while she can fight at every angle, there will likely be several weaknesses she has to overcome. her strong point though, seems to be her movement and properly utilizing the advantages of each of her ranged moves, so those would be the most prominent of her strengths, even if they aren't the most safe.

[Buttface]

FOUND SOME REALLY COOL, ACTUALLY USEFUL STUFF. But I'll reply to the question first, Susano.

 

I guess, from watching those videos, not caring. From how that Kubo guy plays her, it seems like he just plays a solid, patient spacing game until he knows he can go in with a 5B. From 5B, a lot of options seem to open up for safe pressure.

 

5B>5A>5B>5C is what I took away from those videos. Essentially, he uses 5B to get in since it travels so far, and pretty fast. Then uses 5A only so that he can go back to 5B again. I'm not entirely too sure why he does that, but whatever. After that, technically, you could go anywhere. That's where it seemed like he gained the most leverage in his matches. You could use God's Hand, since a DP will only break your Persona, and allow for them to be counterhit. If they dodge roll it, you won't be counterhit for trying, and from what I saw, it only put them in a worse position. Sweep isn't a bad idea, if the opponent is conditioned, and you still won't be close enough to be punished for trying. Any other option works pretty well, too.

 

NOW THE COOL STUFF.

 

Kubo also uses a very basic BnB in the air. j.C>j.2C>jump cancel>j.C>j.2C>j.214B. What's really interesting about that, is the potential for a scary setup afterwords. Notice, you'll still be left airborne while your opponent is thrown to the ground. You can still act while falling. Apparently, Yoshitsune doesn't move from his position after knocking them down for quite a while. This means you can actually throw things out, and they won't even see it, since he's off screen.

 

It makes it so that your Persona is in their face while you're on the complete other side of the screen, RIGHT on their wakeup. Some things I've messed around with, after finding this...

 

-After the combo, while Margaret is falling, j.2D. Ardha will fire an ice-ball from off-screen. It'll catch people who are jumping, but if they run forward, they should be fine.

-After the combo, while Margaret falls, j.22C will throw Yoshitsune in their face. It'll be there basically right when they tech bounce. You can immediately cancel that into 2D if they jump after wakeup, and it'll catch it. Really good setup.

-Blah blah, as she falls, j.2D>2C (on the ground after you land). The effect of this is, it places Yoshitsune on the opposite side of the opponent. The Ice-Ball should be incentive for them to not do anything. As I said before, they can just run forward, but since you placed Yoshitsune on the other side (off-screen), you can throw a projectile (236C) and they'll be forced to stop and block it.

 

There's actually a lot more you can do with this knowledge. It allows you to keep a bit of a lockdown on them from full-screen after the combo. And not only that, but you can pretty much get 2k-ish damage from full-screen, with no worries of being punished for (most) things you try.

You can also do 5C when you land after doing j.2D and it'll put Cu Chulainn just close enough to hit with his spear, keeping them from trying to walk forward

[gary]

So what exactly does Mediarahan do?

[ThatHiroGuy]

So what exactly does Mediarahan do?

 

Heals both players. I'm not sure what's with the deal with it's inconsistent heal amounts, but there's matches where I heal a ton, and others where I heal really low (worthless) amounts. 

[MegaBlues]

Maybe Mediarahan heals for a set total amount, split between the two players randomly?

 

I don't have the game, so this is pure speculation, of course.

[Buttface]

CH 2A > 2C > 2D > air dash j.22C > dash 214C > 2B > 5C > j.C > j.2C > dj.C > j.214AB > 214A > 214214A = 5300 damage from midscreen to corner

 

Starting from CH 5C increase damage by 1100. Great punish combo and not too hard to do.

if you do CH 2A > 2C > 2D > air dash j.22C > dash 214C > 2B > 5C > j.C > j.2C > dj.C > >j.2C > j.214AB > 214214A  you can land the super from almost anywhere on the screen as long as they end up in the corner by j.214AB, and if you use the SB version you can always land it