LordKnight Explains Defense and Defensive Option Selects in P4U2

[RWA Announcer]

Definitely watching these videos, but thanks for actually writing Fuzzy Jump down for us Anne!  Been looking to both add that to my game and practice grabbing people out of it if I can program a Training Dummy to replicate it now that I have the inputs.

[mixedmethods]

Definitely watching these videos, but thanks for actually writing Fuzzy Jump down for us Anne!  Been looking to both add that to my game and practice grabbing people out of it if I can program a Training Dummy to replicate it now that I have the inputs.

You want to beat an OS that's designed to deal with throw mix-ups with a throw? Did you actually watch the video Anne and bace made? They cover how to deal with Fuzzy Jump, but it's not "throw."

I think there's a lot of confusion regarding the use and implications of OSes, despite Anne and Bace doing a damn fine job of explaining how the layers of the metagame work. In any event, choosing to option select does carry risk. If the opponent is aware of the OS and knows how to beat it, bait it, and check for it, then there's a very good chance that attempting to OS will get you CH'd and afraid to OS, meaning the attacker can force respect. Additionally, knowing the inputs (and practising them) for Fuzzy Jump does not mean "I should OS EVERYTHING." Stronger characters have safe ways to beat the OS and continue their pressure, and some things can't be OS'd at all -- Aigis's Orgia mix-up and Minazuki's pressure come to mind.

Learning Fuzzy Jump and other OSes is good, and even if you aren't ready to implement them in a match, practising becoming familiar with how they work, the timing, etc., in training mode is beneficial, as is being aware of their existence. The existence of these OSes shapes the metagame and changes how the game is played, a fact that's crucial when you watch high-level footage and evaluate decision-making. But OSes are not a 100% failsafe way to up your defence, nor are they something that exist in isolation. Again, as Anne and bace said: Fuzzy Jump was developed to deal with a situation (throw mix-ups, including high/low/throw) that commonly occurs in play. As Fuzzy Jump became common knowledge and routinely used, the next level of problem-solving occurred: How do I safely pressure my opponent without losing to Fuzzy Jump? And it turns out that the stronger characters can absolutely shut down this OS, because they have ways to pressure opponents that pose low or no risk to them, maintain their momentum, and that don't lose to Fuzzy Jump -- some methods will even punish a defender attempting Fuzzy Jump! Once the defender is scared to option-select, the situation is much more tense, as if you OS and get baited, you're going to suffer, and if you're freaked out and overrespect, you may find yourself being thrown (or worse). Things that can be OS'd may not be when the defender has been shown the risk for option-selecting, which adds layers to the interactions between attacker and defender. Just how respectful is the defender going to be? How much risk is the attacker willing to take, or does the attacker still retain strong mix-up without taking risks? While considering all this, did the defender just eat a run-up grab?

Look at the video. See what happens when you try to Fuzzy Jump Minazuki's 4A>4A>5C. Oops. Look at all the ways Narukami can stop this OS and how threatening certain options are versus others. That is the game. It's not "hey, Fuzzy DP is an awesome trick" -- Fuzzy DP can actually get you killed from full life; rather, it's whether the attacker and/or defender are aware of OSes and the decisions they make based on that knowledge.

[MegaBlues]

So, just to double-check. The OS game is mostly about trying an escape method while also preparing to tech a throw, right?

 

Does this mean that, aside from Fuzzy Jump, you do the input you're looking for, then plink into throw?

 

Annel already listed Fuzzy DP and Fuzzy Roll, but if you wanted to do something like, say, Fuzzy Guard Attack, would you tap C+D, then go into 6A+B as soon as possible?

 

And for Fuzzy Backdash, would you tap C+D then 44 ASAP?

[Kikuichimonji]

So, just to double-check. The OS game is mostly about trying an escape method while also preparing to tech a throw, right?

Does this mean that, aside from Fuzzy Jump, you do the input you're looking for, then plink into throw?

Annel already listed Fuzzy DP and Fuzzy Roll, but if you wanted to do something like, say, Fuzzy Guard Attack, would you tap C+D, then go into 6A+B as soon as possible?

And for Fuzzy Backdash, would you tap C+D then 44 ASAP?

From what I've heard, fuzzy backdash typically doesn't involve throw tech. It's a backdash input on wake-up where you'll only backdash if the opponent didn't do a meaty, and you hold down back after the backdash to block any meaties.

The term "fuzzy whatever" just implies that there's an OS involved in an otherwise simple option.

[Ichipoo]

Sometimes when I try to Fuzzy Jump with Naoto, I sometimes have SB Trap come out, and there would also be times when she super jumps. Obviously the former situation isn't supposed to happen but what about the latter, I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to have a normal jump come out?

[Anne]

You're messing up. SB trap (I assume trap is 214 input) is you rolling the stick accidentally and getting 214CD, I've done it before with missiles lol. If you get superjump it means you you went from 1 > 7 quickly without holding 1. You can avoid that by holding on 1 very briefly before going to 7.

[Ichipoo]

Yeah that explains things. It is also my understanding that you're not supposed to use Fuzzy Jump, or any OS in general, mindlessly as an end all be all answer to everything so I was most likely trying to "mash" it out last time I tried to use it without thinking just for the hell of it now that I look back on it.

[mixedmethods]

Adding this from AnneIFrank on when to OS.

Common Q: "When exactly do I fuzzy jump?"

A: When you're in a situation where you'd be committing to a grab tech, the OS makes it "safer".

[Ichipoo]

So I made this post in the Naoto General Discussion thread just recently and I'm just wondering if my thought process behind the usage of Defensive OSs is correct. Obviously I haven't mastered them yet but I think I get the general point of them now.

 

The way I understand them is that these OSs cover an additional option on defense, which in turn, carries less risk than simply committing to one option (such as just using or grab tech, F-Action, Roll, etc. when we feel it'll work). However, even with this discovery, they're not to be seen as techniques that can get out of every situation as there's still ways to blow it up. That being said, utilizing these OSs are STILL better than committing to just one option on defense, which is what most of us were doing during P4U1. Now, it seems that a sort of Rock-Paper-Scissors type metagame where each player tries to guess which OS their opponent is doing on defense and tries to blow it up has emerged as a result?