mixedmethods

Testing last night suggests 6A is 16f startup for the projectile. Can still RC and escape Jin's Yukikaze even on first frame catch.

I hate being the fun police, but much of what you've written is 100% false, AchedSphinx. The reason this MU was tricky in Arena was because Aigis had no options against well-spaced 5As from Mitsuru; she simply could not challenge Mitsuru at certain ranges, particularly round start. In Ultimax, that's no longer the case, as Aigis's sweep is one of the best in the game (in addition to being Aigis's best starter) while Mitsuru's 5A is 1f slower and has a reduced vertical hitbox. If Aigis lands a sweep starter near the corner or with sufficient meter, the game may very well be over, as her damage is ridiculous, so claiming Aigis has no answers to 5A and that her sweep isn't a problem is empirically untrue. Neutral got tougher for Mitsuru thanks to 5A now being contestable along with the buffs to Aigis's neutral and crazy amounts of Orgia gauge. Her ability to whiff punish Mitsuru is much better, while Mitsuru now has more problems anti-airing due to the head invuln frames being moved back on her 2B. Aigis's 2B still stuffs any bad attempts at setup at neutral (Bufula, bad Droits), and since Aigis will probably be in Orgia more often than not, she can Boost-cancel any blocked 2Bs and fly in for mixup. Mitsuru's DP is slow enough to be reliably baited and safejumped off a 5B > boost-cancel j.B, so once Aigis gets in, you'll need to make the right defensive calls based on the player's offence to escape. Double Megido combos are still painful, albeit not meterless -- midscreen, j.B is 3.7k or so, sweep is 4.6k, j.C(1) is about 3.9k, and you'll be back in the vortex afterward. (And if the Aigis has another 25 meter to add air mortars, the damage is even higher.) (Also, let's not talk about the corner.) Off reliable starters, Aigis is going to do huge damage for 25 meter, whereas Mitsuru is going to need a crouch confirm or counter hit to achieve equivalent damage for resources. That's one problem. The other is that the reward Aigis gets for a Megido knockdown is a safejump into safe pressure and unreactable mixup, so not only does Aigis need fewer hits to close a round than Mitsuru, she's also more likely to get those hits. Orgia combos aren't dependent on FC or CH starters, so it's more likely Aigis is going to convert any hit, normal/standing/midscreen/corner, into major damage for 25 SP (which is meter she doesn't have to justify spending), whereas Mitsuru... well, isn't, and Mitsuru has far more issues with meter management than Aigis. On the defensive side: Aigis has a 5f 5A, so any A Droit can be Fuzzy Mashed, as well as sweep and sweep feint, which is a huge problem for Mitsuru's pressure. It's much harder for Mitsuru to keep Aigis locked down now than in Arena due to her inconsistent reward on hit and the changes to her knockdown game. Combine Mitsuru's issues with Aigis's increased Orgia meter and it becomes much harder for Mitsuru: if Aigis isn't locked down or 5As a Droit, it may be the end of the round. On the bright side, Aigis's DP is one of the weaker ones, so there's that, but she does have very good reversal supers -- 236236C will punish over-commitment and can be made safe with an OMC/OMB, while C and SB Spear are plus on block, Fatal Counter, and combo with or without Fatal, so be very careful on Aigis's wakeup in Awakening. 236236CD hits twice and with an OMC can lead into a hard to see high-low mixup (or an Orgia backdash out of a preemptive punish followed by Aigis whiff-punishing you, etc.). Mitsuru still has a very good DP and it will tag bad cross ups, but then risk-reward comes into play, as if the cross up doesn't come and/or the DP is baited, it's a free punish for Aigis. For 5A>2A>5A pressure, Mitsuru's buttons are too slow to poke out (even on IB). In Orgia, it comes down to selecting the appropriate defensive options based on what the Aigis player is doing, but the problem with Aigis is that you can't block everything, so once you start blocking, it's a matter of time until you're opened up. GCR is very useful tool, but it costs the meter that Mitsuru loves so much, which means even a good GCR is not entirely to Aigis's disadvantage -- Mitsuru may escape Aigis's offence, but if she spends all her meter to do so, Aigis has much less to worry about. You can read Anne's Evernote on dealing with Aigis here: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s589/sh/be7c451a-775f-4f5a-9abb-6e4e2fbb4676/60121a31b193478b0eb64b807a603398 -- OSes can work, just don't get baited. Aigis's fuzzyguard setups work on Mitsuru. Mitsuru's pressure is better and more obnoxious compared to Arena, but her risk-reward, setplay, and average damage all took a hit from Arena. Aigis's risk-reward is skewed, her ground throw is still glitched (cannot be preemptively teched), her damage is explosive, her mixup and pressure now lasts longer due to Orgia gauge buffs, and she's a jetplane. The old tactic of playing "runaway" against Aigis in Orgia to drain her gauge isn't as effective as Aigis has too much Orgia, so her turn isn't going to hurt less just because you make her chase you down. Both sides need meter but Aigis gets a knockdown meterless and is going to build to 25SP for double Megido combos more easily than Mitsuru will stock meter for optimal damage. Unlike Mitsuru, Aigis doesn't need huge amounts of meter for supers, so any time an Aigis has 25SP, it's a double Megido combo, knockdown, rinse and repeat. Finally: Aigis is much better at robbing people than Mitsuru. Again, once Awakened, Aigis has FC on C and SB Spear and SB Spear is one of the fastest reversals in the game. Even if you block them, Aigis is plus, so you don't have the leeway to hit buttons. Any combo with Spear(s) + Megido is going to negate your Burst, so, yes, you can do well all match and then ... well, robbery. Her max damage without Orgia EXO is over 11k, so if Aigis has a Burst for OMB and/or gets a mortar loop starter, you may as well consider the round done. The MU is definitely Aigis's favour. Fun fact: DIE-chan switched to Minazuki because Aigises were everywhere at the start of Ultimax and Mitsuru doesn't do as well against Aigis as she once did. Obviously, the MU has evolved since then (and he plays Rise now), but it's still an uphill battle for Mitsuru. tl;dr this MU is hard for Mitsuru because she lost the ability to effectively and reliably anti-air and her reward is too low versus Aigis specifically. It's not that Mitsuru's damage is actually bad so much as that Aigis has too much Orgia meter and too much damage in Orgia, so Aigis is going to kill you much faster than you kill her... and you can't let Aigis live.

Rurouni, thank you again for your hard work! Evo schedule is out; P4AU is starting and finishing Friday. It's going to be a long day.

BLEED is already on the known and confirmed players list and has been since... well, at least since KSB, possibly even earlier than that. It's the players without tags and/or recognisable tags that are the unknown entities. You can find BLEED in the bracket; it's JEO and purepure who are there but mixed in with all the other names awaiting ID.

And here's another list, this time of Japanese players without recognisable tags/no tags and/or recognisable players from other games who are also registered for P4AU (meaning we need confirmation on whether they still plan to play and their character). Pools are still subject to change, but for the sake of ease, I've listed them by pool. Any help IDing names is appreciated! Remember: we have confirmed that certain players are attending but they're either missing from the bracket (less likely) or registered using only their name and/or a tag we don't know. I did not list confirmed players such as Souji, nor did I include unmentioned attendees who are notable P4AU players (such as Akira). Known Unknowns Pool A126 Motoshi Ukai (Gacyapin001) (Kanji) Wako One tree Pool A127 Shingo Ono (Bancho-) Pool A128 Atsushi Haraguchi (Hazama) Pool A130 Shogo Kitagata (G.x) Yutaka Hinoue (Heartia) Pool A131 K S (Kuni) Pool A132 Kazuya Kamisue (Mekasue) Wakabo Pool A134 Kenichi Itsumi (Ragajin) (Minazuki) Pool B125 Hiromu Tokuda (Butayaro) Pool B126 Hisatoshi Usui (Rion) Pool B127 Takuo Rai (Rairai) Pool B128 Takuya Abe (Abetakuhj) Pool B131 Koichiro Ishihara (Cojiro) Pool B132 Genki Abe (Abegen) (Kanji) Pool B133 Taichi Higashi (Taitsu) (Kuma) Footage. Takaaki Tsutsui (Taka) Pool C125 Yohei Shimizu (Soraneko) (Aigis?) Pool C129 Takano Masayuki (Supo) Pool C130 Yosuke Ohtani (Dr. strangelove) Pool C133 Yusuke Ikegaya

Evo list updated (scroll up). Setsuo and wakabo are officially out. JEO and purepure confirmed still in, regardless of what the bracket shows right now. There are a lot of mystery names that have popped up in pools -- some are obviously BB and GG players who entered P4AU, some may be unknown threats. Stay tuned for more updates on that front!

Updated Evo attendance list: Aguro (Narukami) Pet (Adachi) Okusan (SHO, Minazuki) Tahichi (Margaret, Yukari) DIE-Chan (Minazuki, Rise?) Mui (Aigis) Damosu (Adachi) Souji (Kuma) Shuuto (Ken) purepure (Labrys) Koichi (Aigis) Domi (Akihiko) JEO (S. Mitsuru) Hagiwara (Kuma) BLEED (Margaret) Uinyan (Rise) Cho (Ken) via Evo bracket Tochigin (Ken) (Top 8 in BB 2014) New names from pools will be continually added as they're confirmed. Confirmed but not competing: Yume (Aigis, 2.0 Marie) No longer attending: Mokke, Setsuo, wakabo Updated July 3.

Okusan Tweeted some new names coming to Evo: New names are Uinyan (Rise?), BLEED (who was at KSB, Margaret), Hagiwara (Kuma), and JEO (S. Mitsuru). Cho (Ken) is attending as well, and Setsuo (Aigis), purepure (Labrys), and wakabo (Mitsuru) were confirmed roughly a month ago.

I'd be happy to assist with commentary/feedback/critique, if you need voices.

When pressuring Shabrys while the bull is blocking, you are unsafe after Asterius guards 5C.Her DP has 15f start-up, autoguard for the duration -- but the more problematic issue is that the hitbox is large enough to easily tag you out of pressure.

For anyone preparing to fight BananaKen or wishing to learn more about the Shab MU in general, I created an Evernote detailing various grab set-ups and escape options. Enjoy. This was aimed at players already relatively familiar with the MU, but if there are further questions, let me know and I'll open a "How Do I Stop Shab" thread in her sub-forum.

Guys, I want to let this thread rock, but if it devolves into "well, opinions aren't wrong" and other tangentials, infractions are going to be given out like lollipops at a doctor's office. Talk about CPE, discuss SKD's posts, talk about how to structure offence, whatever, but I don't want to wake up to 30 posts about what constitutes an opinion.

Rurouni, you are the actual best. Some of us were actually coordinating to compile footage for each player while you took on the task alone. Thank you for all you do to here on Dustloop and for helping the P4AU community. If you weren't already awarded, I'd award you, and if I could give you the opposite if an infraction, I would. Rock on.

At the risk of playing captain obvious, since we're playing 1.1 at Evo, there are a few tasks that stand out for mods and interested parties to take on: 1.1 video threads, not 2.0 ones. I'm especially guilty in this regard, as not only have I not finished coding everything to update Shab's 2.0 video thread, her 1.1 video thread was never formally organised due to the forum being modless until 2.0. Suddenly/not-so-suddenly, this is an actual issue (and something I see taking up many hours of my life), as footage offers insight on how MUs developed, what solutions Japanese players found, and, for matches featuring players confirmed for Evo, tape to review to study player habits blah blah blah. That... needs to be organised; matches featuring players confirmed for Evo need to be flagged -- is it worth having a general video thread for matches featuring the squad Japan is sending? Alex already posted a list of US players who can help our top players learn crucial MUs. Just adding that Okusan is likely playing Ken, so that's another MU we need to learn. Frame data stuff is already on the to-do list. Ideally, we'll get a breakthrough there. Japan already singled out the MUs they think we're going to have the most trouble with, so keeping in mind that we're dealing with 1.1, not 2.0, tiers... well, it is what is and we know where we're lacking. I mentioned to Jose that I was working on an article to understanding Titanomachia and some other issues people have with Shab and he mentioned that this wouldn't be a bad idea for other characters, particularly for the characters that are most likely to give us trouble. I believe we can do it and put up a strong showing against Japan. In terms of collecting resources, I'm all ears, as that's what I'll be focusing on to help make life easier.

I'm giving everyone one warning to remain on topic right now. After that, it's an automatic infraction. This thread is for collecting resources and building the community, finding solutions, etc., for Evo, so off-topic posts and derailment completely undermine the purpose.

I added certain info from LK's doc to the wiki awhile ago, but it's still a good resource.

In the interest of compiling Evernote data, here are two known ones, and I'll add links to more as they're posted: Margaret's 1.1 Gatlings and Pressure (written by LK) Margaret 1.1 Pressure Strings (written by Will of Fortune/KarzeonFortune, not a 100% databank but a possible jumping off point for labwork)

The timing is very strict, but if done properly, Power Slash clashes with command grab set-ups (leaving you -50SP and taking a massive punish). Your DP, even if teched, breaks a card if Asterius is active. Going ham with it is a bad idea, but it's still an option.

Most of the Skype chat focuses on combos, combo theory, and other technical info regarding playing the character -- you're welcome to join, but MU discussion is from the perspective of those of us playing Shadow Labrys. If you'd like to learn how to fight against her, the general gameplay thread and MU threads are good places to ask questions. I'd also strongly prefer that MU questions/discussion stay on the boards, not Skype, so that info is publicly available and can be corrected as need be.

Everybody, chill. A number of players have had difficulty with 236236 and 214214 inputs. I already linked to the thread discussing that particular issue, solutions, and known shortcuts. I'm not a pad player, so I don't have any first-hand experience with the issue; I have switched from pad to stick, however, and during the transition, execution is a garbled (you'll have to relearn motions and build muscle memory for even basic actions, so during the adjustment phase, you will drop combos you can reliably perform on pad). That being said, there are a number of top players who play on pad (both XBox and DualShock), so playing on stick is not a requirement. As was noted in the thread on input difficulties, Ultimax has input shortcuts. And they're very real, as I've seen numerous players accidentally perform an IK instead of a super, and I've had issues with supers being performed instead of a special due to my own sloppiness combined with how the game reads inputs. This isn't a new issue, and it's not relevant to the original post. Good, that's crucial! Also, don't be afraid to ask your opponent what they did and why if you can't figure it out; there are alwys going to be some sourpusses, but most players are decent people who are happy to help others. Unfortunately, since I don't know who you play, I can't offer any substantial comments on the video. To borrow from Colpevole, though, whenever you watch a replay, if someone were to pause the match and ask why you hit whatever button you did at that moment, you should be able to give a thoughtful answer. You can do this yourself, in a way: just pause and ask yourself why you did whatever action. If you can't answer the question or the answer is "I mashed because I was panicking," then that's something you should evaluate and/or lab. Maybe you tried to poke out of a pressure string that was designed to bait mashing (you can recreate that in the lab to check), or maybe you DP whenever you're pressured, making the DP easy to bait. If you notice you use something as a crutch (such as Evasive Action or AoA), then try to play without using your "panic" option for a day. I autopilot certain moves and have found that consciously banning them for a session is a good way to break out of a habit. If you elaborate, perhaps I or someone else could help. The concepts he talks about are valuable -- such as recognising that out of a character's entire moveset, only one or two moves are likely in a given situation (and then preparing how to deal with or beat those options), noticing that players of the same character tend to do similar things (which is important for learning MUs), etc.

You don't need a stick to play P4A, but there are a number of known input shortcuts, which may or may not be part of your issue.

Watching replays is invaluable. You learn more from losses than wins. Also, I really recommend checking out LordKnight's archives, as his old Twitch streams break down how to learn, which is something I think a lot of players (myself included) don't fully grasp. It's relatively easy to say "review replays, find patterns, lab solutions," but even that can be overwhelming. This video talks about using netplay with regard to reaction times, and this video discusses learning MUs and forming assumptions. If you're eating a safe-jump on wake-up every time, that's something you can notice both by reviewing replays and during matches, and then start finding solutioms: varying your tech times (some players auto-pilot, meaning you can catch them whiffing a safe-jump), committing to standblocking on wake-up, etc. As for combos, make sure you've practised hit-confirming, particularly for your character's most common starter(s). Record your own pressure strings and try to learn what, if any, vulnerabilities they have, both on regular block and on IB. Do they lose to mash? Rolling? Reversals? Can hou space yourself to make certain DPs whiff? Some DPs are much better than others -- start-up and range vary, as well as how easily some can be baited. Narukami's is fast; Yosuke's has a godlike number of active frames; and Shadow Labrys's is actually not bad but has autoguard instead if invuln. If you know where there's a DPable gap in your string, you can then start baiting the DP (hold back) and punish, rather than autopiloting. tl;dr As was said: it's not the time you spend playing or in the lab, it's what you do with it.

Adding this from AnneIFrank on when to OS.

You can try BananaKen's suggestion (adding an extra 214C between dj.A > 214A); I've used that timing myself. The theory behind the j.214A + C sequence it that the 214 input from the Aerial will also serve as the 214C for the Buffalo, which will net a knockdown when combined. Generally, 214A, the most minute of pauses, hit C works for me; if you simultaneously mash on A+C, you'll get airturn. Is the Hammer not appearing at all or is it just hitting too late after the Aerial? Are you getting another move entirely? Zouf also made a video showing his hands as he performed the 5AAA > hop cancel > j.2B route; since the combo ends j.B > > djc.A > j.214A + C, it should help. Here you go.

If you're looking for games and critique, the Beginner-Intermediate Player List & Match Finder thread and the general Match Finder/GG thread are more likely to yield matches, as well as character subforums. The Beginner Mode subforum is invaluable and has numerous threads regarding stagnation, limbo, and all of the other enjoyable side-effects of fighting games. I'm going to close this topic since match-finding belongs in the online play area, and dealing with plateaus is a topic for Beginner Mode and/or your character's subforum.