[Xrd] Tier Discussion

[D.R.F.]

Anybody have any thoughts about Bedman?

I don't think his damage is bad, but IMO he can lose easily to mindless rushdown from Sol, Elphelt, Sin, Ky, Millia, Leo etc. By no means do I think he's a bad character though, he has some useful and annoying shit he can do, but he can't just press any button and be successful in matchups. I think he can solidly beat Pot though, and that's about it. Any other matchup does not feel easy or even, and he seems to get by with character unfamiliarity than anything else.

Actually, his damage and overall combo theory is lacking, so he doesn't get as much payoff as I think he should. He has few reliable defensive options as well, so he struggles under pressure more than other characters

[jeef]

What makes Sol so good in this game? I'm new to the game but I can see why characters like Millia, Zato, etc. are really good but can't quite get my head around what makes sol so strong. I'm trying to main Sol, so knowing his strengths relative to the rest of the cast might help

[Stellarcircle5]

What makes Sol so good in this game? I'm new to the game but I can see why characters like Millia, Zato, etc. are really good but can't quite get my head around what makes sol so strong. I'm trying to main Sol, so knowing his strengths relative to the rest of the cast might help

Really solid normals, 3 frame anti air, fantastic damage conversion with meter, best uppercut in the game, solid oki options with safe jumps and Gunflame YRC, decent grounded mixup with Wild Throw. As far as I know, the few characters that do well against him are those who can keep him out. Besides that, he's a really stable and rewarding RTSD machine.

[XXXDC]

While yes, i am new i can pick up on a game rather quick. I fail to see how someone who can basically do whatever he wants from anywhere on the screen, has a reliable dp and two parries to be a bad character.

 

Also if potemkin doesnt have a single tool to stop a character from simply rushing in, thats really bad. Hes a grappler you DONT want to be in his face and ive seen everyone here rush him down stupid

You are underestimating Pot way too much. He is far from being helpless in Xrd and i'm just under the impression that you've never seen/fight a slightly decent Pot.

[Poultrygeist]

It's easy to write Pot off based on the old black and white "he's bottom tier" mindset, and I defintiely understand that, but Pot still has matchups in his favor doesn't he?  I think "far from being helpless" is the best way to put it at least.

 

 

Actually, his damage and overall combo theory is lacking, so he doesn't get as much payoff as I think he should. He has few reliable defensive options as well, so he struggles under pressure more than other characters

 

Well he's not Venom, who doesn't have ANY kind of non-universal reversal, and Ogawa has been pretty high on Venom lately regardless.  

[madigawadesperate]

You are underestimating Pot way too much. He is far from being helpless in Xrd and i'm just under the impression that you've never seen/fight a slightly decent Pot.

 

I fought a decent one but i play i-no and the same player got murdered by a faust and axl player later __shrug 

[jeef]

Thanks for the quick reply Stellar!

[D.R.F.]

It's easy to write Pot off based on the old black and white "he's bottom tier" mindset, and I defintiely understand that, but Pot still has matchups in his favor doesn't he? I think "far from being helpless" is the best way to put it at least.

Well he's not Venom, who doesn't have ANY kind of non-universal reversal, and Ogawa has been pretty high on Venom lately regardless.

Yea, I understand about the fact that bedman could be worse. Idk but tbh, it's still his damage that holds him back, and we have seen what Tsubu and Lox can do. In short, I hope the Bed gets new stuff later on

[Poultrygeist]

I don't think his damage is bad.  I think the things holding him back is that they were very keen on playing it safe with him, not wanting to go overboard.  Hence why there are things that "feel" like they would work but don't.  I do think things will get better for him, but I also don't think he's trash just because he's not top 10.

[D.R.F.]

Hmm well no one is straight trash haha. But I do the struggle when I fight him, that's all

[Vashimus]

I'm sure Slayer is still pretty free for Potemkin. Perhaps Sol too.

 

Really he just needs some of his AC tools/properties and he'd be peachy, notably 2S vaccuum and Heat Knuckle dropping them in front of you. I don't see why they had to take that away from him.

 

The 6K overhead that comboed into sweep was nice too. Faust being able to crouch under Potemkin's Dust is just sad. 

[Destin]

Because AC was done by a totally different team, and the original team wanted to go back to their game as the base.

[madigawadesperate]

Potemkin is not easy to rush down. He has a fast command grab with invincibility, a safe on block move that makes him low invulnerable, a move with armor, a super that covers the whole air space, an actual uppercut, a move that will always counter projectiles and gives him the best projectile in the game, a backdash that literally can only be punished on a single frame, and probably the best priority 6P in the game. Potemkin has always made up for his terrible movement with super broken moves like unblockable Slidehead. He's probably the best character in the game at punishing offense. He's weaker in this game because he doesn't do enough damage when he hits you and he can't follow up midscreen hits into super dangerous mixups because of the nerfs to stuff like 2S (used to Vacuum and be plus on block) and the removal of his throw invincible overhead (old 6K).

 

Yes these are tools he can use but are they that useful, I'll just use my character as an example just to show you how i just can completely disrespect him

 

Slide head- Simply tk notes and air dash

Backdash - Can be caught with j.hs or if you're feeling ballsy note

6p and hammerfall - Lose to stbt

The air attack is a REALLY hard read and heat extend isn't too useful as an anti-air without yrc

 

He literally has to choose to sweep me or to jab me out of the air, that is his only option against i-no 

 

I-no can put the notes in such a way where flick won't even work, yes he can potemkin buster he but he needs to know when I-no's turn is over. Also when I-no gets in she can start her game. I really fail to see how this isn't extremely skewed.

[StylisH]

Yes these are tools he can use but are they that useful, I'll just use my character as an example just to show you how i just can completely disrespect him

 

Slide head- Simply tk notes and air dash

Backdash - Can be caught with j.hs or if you're feeling ballsy note

6p and hammerfall - Lose to stbt

The air attack is a REALLY hard read and heat extend isn't too useful as an anti-air without yrc

 

He literally has to choose to sweep me or to jab me out of the air, that is his only option against i-no 

 

I-no can put the notes in such a way where flick won't even work, yes he can potemkin buster he but he needs to know when I-no's turn is over. Also when I-no gets in she can start her game. I really fail to see how this isn't extremely skewed.

 

This.  

 

And usually once she gets in, it becomes a combo/mixup exhibition.  It's not impossible to win, but it is very difficult because of her tools vs. his.

[Ryd']

Yes these are tools he can use but are they that useful, I'll just use my character as an example just to show you how i just can completely disrespect him

 

Slide head- Simply tk notes and air dash

Backdash - Can be caught with j.hs or if you're feeling ballsy note

6p and hammerfall - Lose to stbt

The air attack is a REALLY hard read and heat extend isn't too useful as an anti-air without yrc

 

He literally has to choose to sweep me or to jab me out of the air, that is his only option against i-no 

 

I-no can put the notes in such a way where flick won't even work, yes he can potemkin buster he but he needs to know when I-no's turn is over. Also when I-no gets in she can start her game. I really fail to see how this isn't extremely skewed.

 

You realize you're basing a character's worth entirely off of a matchup that is acknowledged to be problematic, without taking into consideration how other matchups play out for that character, right?  I-No has several characteristics that affect Pot harder than most other characters, but said traits aren't always in her favor.  Many of those same blessings vs Pot result in having a more difficult time dealing with Axl, whose kit happens to make I-No's life a lot more difficult than it does most characters.

[Angry Guy of DE]

Pot has bad match-ups, and the world goes on.

That said Potemkin can get a lot of mileage with the YRC as well as good use of the Blitz shield in some match-ups.  Obvious rushdown against an intelligent player regardless of character choice can stop it with the game mechanics.

Now let's look back and laugh when Pot is allowed to Potemkin Buster Axl's chains full screen.

[DaiAndOh]

Truth be told, Axl "benzen-sama!" or whatever he says, is ten times more annoying for I-No than any shoryuken in the game, he and Venom have always been one of her worst matchups and top tiers or not Xrd is certainly no exception.

 

In +R Venom vs I-No was definitely I-No's favor, several players told me it was 7-3 which I thought is a stretch, but no doubt it's in her favor. In AC though, it was definitely Venom's favor pretty badly. I've heard that I-No wins the matchup in this game, but I think it's pretty close, maybe about even or slightly in her favor?

[XXXDC]

Yes these are tools he can use but are they that useful, I'll just use my character as an example just to show you how i just can completely disrespect him

 

stuffs

You are judging a character based entirely on your personal 'netplay' (most likely) experience. If i were to do that then i'd say he and May are S/A-tier only because i can easily beat most of the locals here, but guess what, they're not. Things don't work that way.

The matchup is on I-no's favor, it has always been that way (almost), but is FAR from being a "lol-free-win--old-Tager-tier".

[mynus]

Truth be told, Axl "benzen-sama!" or whatever he says, is ten times more annoying for I-No than any shoryuken in the game, he and Venom have always been one of her worst matchups and top tiers or not Xrd is certainly no exception.

Really not. Axl's actual really good DP gets safe jumped by Ino for free (as does every other DP in the game) and VCL YRC destroys all reversals anyway. Axl loses that match the second he gets knocked down which isn't hard since his chains all have hurtboxes now. One full screen 6P and round is over. Chain stance is free to IB>5P/6P/BS and full screen dive.

The only game Ino has EVER had a bad matchup against Venom was AC since his buttons, combos, and damage in that game were OD. She has always had the unique mobility to navigate balls with STBT, hoverdash>DJ/Airdash, and Chemical love has the property of nullifying projectiles without losing its hitbox (Blows through w/ infinite projectile durability).

[mynus]

Yes these are tools he can use but are they that useful, I'll just use my character as an example just to show you how i just can completely disrespect him

Slide head- Simply tk notes and air dash

Backdash - Can be caught with j.hs or if you're feeling ballsy note

6p and hammerfall - Lose to stbt

The air attack is a REALLY hard read and heat extend isn't too useful as an anti-air without yrc

He literally has to choose to sweep me or to jab me out of the air, that is his only option against i-no

I-no can put the notes in such a way where flick won't even work, yes he can potemkin buster he but he needs to know when I-no's turn is over. Also when I-no gets in she can start her game. I really fail to see how this isn't extremely skewed.

I-no vs Pot is literally a high 7-3 (if not a sad 8-2).

[StylisH]

I'll go with 7-3, if only because he has the Grappler Factor, which is known to throw everything out of the window with one well timed (or heavily mashed) command grab.

[Poultrygeist]

Because AC was done by a totally different team, and the original team wanted to go back to their game as the base.

Come to think of it, is there ANYTHING left of the AC characters in Xrd?  I'm trying to think of something but the closest I can recall is "Bishop Run Out bounces in a very very very vaguely remniscent way of his force breaks" and even that one is a bit of a stretch.

[DaiAndOh]

Come to think of it, is there ANYTHING left of the AC characters in Xrd?  I'm trying to think of something but the closest I can recall is "Bishop Run Out bounces in a very very very vaguely remniscent way of his force breaks" and even that one is a bit of a stretch.

Actually Venom's 5D has balls bounce off walls like FB Stinger did...but they don't bounce of characters like FB Stinger did, so it sucks (as well as sucking for being 20+ frames to launch a ball...

AC/+R only stuff I can remember offhand:

Axl has 2 hit chains on his AA chains and the 5P > 6K > 2S gatling from +R.

Slayer has j.2K.

Maybe some frame data stuff?

[ChexGuy]

 

Come to think of it, is there ANYTHING left of the AC characters in Xrd?  I'm trying to think of something but the closest I can recall is "Bishop Run Out bounces in a very very very vaguely remniscent way of his force breaks" and even that one is a bit of a stretch.

 

May being able to hold 6P and 6H, I think she could only hold one of them in Slash and neither in Reload.

 

...that's all I got.

[StylisH]

I-No supers are still GDLK, although they added a slight bit of recovery to the aerial though