[CPEX] Noel Vermillion Change List.

[Litherain-XIII]

CP2 Noel Change Updates:

 

- Can now reverse gatling 2A > 5A.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A06_ZsLnFy0&feature=player_detailpage#t=1619

 

- 5D now Fatal Counters.

 

- XI.Optic Barrel (236A/B) can now be dash-canceled on hit and on whiff.

 

- Chamber Shot (236C) is now easier to use. Causes low ground slide midscreen. still wallsticks in the corner and can be comboed meterless with 5A, 2A , 5B , 5C , 6C depending on the height of it being used in corner combo.

 

- Bloom Trigger (236D) now wallbounces instead of wallstick and is very low to the ground. looks near impossible to follow up unless a 5A can pick up. if done slightly away from corner you cannot follow up. opponent falls too fast to the ground. has to be point blank most likely. (pure speculation on 5A follow up)

 

- Seen noel can special cancel drive on whiff now. 5D > chamber shot on whiff confirmed. not sure if its the drive starters only but this is wats seen.

 

- 5D seems to have no guardpoint or invuln. she tried it a few times got CH out of it in the beginning startup frames and later frames as well.

 

- J.D on counter hit seems to cause auto float ground bounce on standing opponents.

 

- J.D lost its forward thrust momentum from 1.1 so its now stationary when being used. this explains why j.C > j.D combos no longer work making j.D whiff all the time if not most the time. speculation of 6C > j.D may work with super jump involved. waiting for conformation.

 

-  Seen noel do a 6B > 5D seemingly with no delay of 5D and it didnt combo as a red beat anymore. seen once waiting on confirmation.

 

- Saw a lot of d.5B>236A>66>5A>5C>stuffs. Most likely her new BnB routes to replace j.D stuff in her combos

 

- Saw this combo being used: 3C>22C>66>5B>5C>j.2C>j.4D>stuffs.

 

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Tweets / Needs Translation Info:

 

- CP2ノエル(仮2 jD…慣性ほぼ削除(？)，ヒット時ダウンに，硬直増加 CS…スライドダウン，端のみ追撃可能，火力弱体 BT…壁バン，追撃状況限，火力強化 AT…鈍化(？) ODBT…火力強化 ODAT…動きが見やすく 各種D始動…cOD追加，透かしても必殺技キャンセル追加

 

Translated from above:

 

Temp. Noel CP2 Changes 2

j.D kills almost all momentum(?), causes knockdown [not sure on this one's context beyond knockdown], has more recovery

Chamber Shot causes slide, can combo afterwards in corner, and combo potential has been lowered [very unclear about this one. It has something to do with weaker combos, but I'm not confident on it being a damage thing, proration, or something else]

Bloom Trigger wallbounces, is difficult to combo off of [not sure if diffcult or impossible], and combo potential has been improved [same wording as Chamber Shot, very unclear on this one]

Assault Through is slower(?)

OD Bloom Trigger combo potential up [etc, etc]

And the OD Assault Through and OD Cancel stuff I frankly have no clue on.

 

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- CP2ノエル(仮 2D…バレキャン可 4D…fc削除，無敵変更，コンボ時間減少 5D…fc対応 5A…攻撃レベルup 各オプ…dc追加(dcで2F有利) cr5A…高速化 cr5B…高速化 cr6B…鈍化 cr6C…fc対応 j2C…受け身不能時間増加 j4D…めくり削除，追尾化

 

Translated from above:

 

Temp. Noel CP2 Changes

2D cancels into Thor

4D no longer fatals, invincibility has been changed, is harder to combo with.

5D fatals

5A has a higher attack level

Optic Barrel is dash cancel-able. The dash cancel is +2

d.5Ais faster

d.5B is faster

d.6B is slower

d.6C fatals

j.2C's untech time increased

j.4D doesn't flip anymore and tracks the opponent

 

 

 

http://puu.sh/c5DW9/d9689d1361.jpg

 

http://puu.sh/c5DYh/b59135d064.jpg\

 

http://puu.sh/c5DZq/c33ee0256f.jpg

 

http://puu.sh/c5E0K/65c655966e.jpg

 

https://twitter.com/oboronoel/status/520106561469808640

 

 

place holder for now.

[LunaKage]

lol 4D weakened even more. So how is she strong? 6k off of a fatal move that never sees usage doesn't seem like a good tradeoff to me, unless they changed 5D to make it more viable as a punish tool, like made it faster or something.

 

Due to Noel's weakened staggers she got since 1.0, and her "All or nothing" drive mixup, it was tougher to stay on an opponent, and now they made it harder to escape pressure, so what's her gameplan now? I don't get it man, this character needs to just stop.

[Litherain-XIII]

idk to be honest Luna. they also mentioned that d.6B was also slowed down  thus making her mix up even more weaker and we're damn near close to being reversaless in a meterless fashion with that 4D nerf which sucks considering her tools are already finicky in their own ways and that theyre werent buff to help out with neutral or pressure im just lost out of wat to do with noel atm. its like taking a stroll back to CS1 ville and reliving nightmares of character inefficiency when i go over this stuff its all over the place. not to mention i see ppl like Jin didnt even scratch a nerf from the devs and he's kickin it freely with buffs like others. Im looking at ragna atm...may have to back seat noel as a sub if this goes on to be worse for her.

[LunaKage]

I mean, Oboro is a Noel player, maybe he knows something we don't, but it just doesn't look good.

 

The whole "hurr durr now you need to block" is fine and all, but the reason other characters can get away with not having a reversal is because they are usually really good in their main area. I agree that being able to get 5k off of a reversal is silly, and even getting 3.5k off of 4D like we did in CP1 was a little silly, but it's the only reason we were able to stand a chance in certain matchups, like Azrael. Even still, if it had to take a nerf, I'd much rather it lose damage than lose invuln.

 

Right now it just looks like: Below Average Mixup, below Average Rushdown, High Speed, bad neutral, below average defensive abilities, Stupid High damage on CH Punishes.

 

But again, we probably just don't know the whole story. Oboro should know the struggle himself, so if he says she's strong, there's gotta be something we're not seeing.

[Litherain-XIII]

true but you'd figured he would explain why shes strong outside of say omg shes nerfed and blazey blah. if saying she can do high ass dmg off CH is her only strong point atm in 2.0 then fuck that. i want character efficiency to be able to do shit on the field not wat she can produce in terms of situational CHs damage off hard reads because so far thats all im hearing. noel always could pull off high damage hell she was doing that since day 1 before azrael even knew what damage was when he stepped into the picture. all i know is i better be +2476 on 2c or somethin... somethin goddamn it. _-_

[LunaKage]

There's kind of been this trend where the more I get upset about her changes, the better she ends up being. I remember thinking she was gonna be ass in CS2 before the game came out. So I'm kinda hoping this ends up the same way lol

 

It worked in reverse too, I thought CS1 Noel looked hype.

[Litherain-XIII]

i hope that sticks in your case because if you think she ass now im praying to the gods and stars constellations that its the opposite at the end of the tunnel. or else my name is John Mcbrown. holla at me bruh..

[Demon Wind Bomb]

There's kind of been this trend where the more I get upset about her changes, the better she ends up being. I remember thinking she was gonna be ass in CS2 before the game came out. So I'm kinda hoping this ends up the same way lol

 

It worked in reverse too, I thought CS1 Noel looked hype.

It's a bit unrelated, but I was thinking the exact same thing lol.

 

In any case, I've been hearing that her drive moves (sans d.6B) have been speed up for the most part.

And then there's this

 

https://twitter.com/HiagoXYZ/status/520281728133632000

https://twitter.com/HiagoXYZ/status/520281793887739904

 

Oboro also mentioned some sort of change to our 5A.

[LunaKage]

That 2D info is some weird shit. Though honestly there's not much reason to do the Ground cancel thing, since we can already do 2D > d.6D. Unless Starter 6D is faster now. 

 

5A change has me hopeful, please be a buff, 5A can't take anymore nerfs ;w;

[Demon Wind Bomb]

Well, Google translate says 5A's attack level went up.

[LunaKage]

That leads me to believe it's at the very least no longer -3.

 

If it were -1 it would be fine, but +1 is ideal. If they returned it to CT status +3, then that fact alone would convince me that Noel is strong.

[Arcknight]

Just some minor observations.  It is hardly anything more than anecdotal:

 

Counter-hit 6B > 5D still works(just for confirmation).  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG9zkIdys0M&feature=player_detailpage#t=24

 

d.2D seemed to beat 4D clean.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG9zkIdys0M&feature=player_detailpage#t=36

 

~d.5B(wallbounce) > 236B > 66 > 5A > 6C(2) > 2D seemed to miss completely.

 

j.C > j.D definitely looks almost useless and non-confirmable.

 

 

 

4D later beat d.6A (I -think-) and counter-hit d.6B.  It also ate some other random single hits from Azrael.  It makes me think the overall invincible window is a lot smaller, and that a multi-hit attack like 2D/d.2D can get around it now.  Not sure if that was possible before but I do not recall it as such.

[GreeniX]

From those same videos.

 

Normal hit 6B into 5D still works fine. Stay calm, people. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-JBytnySNYc#t=166

 

It looks as though hitting 5A after corner 236C on a grounded opponent requires being incredibly close. d.6C 236C 5A did not work, but d.5C 236C 5A did because d.5C moves Noel forward a lot more. In drive strings, the way to go will still be launching the opponent before wallsticking them if at all possible. In the above example, d.6C d.6D 236C likely makes it so Noel can follow up with 5C or at the very least 5B.

 

sjC jD still works as a corner air combo, but it's not usable midscreen at all. Midscreen launch into j2C j4D does not sideswap because Noel tracks the opponent and j4D hits towards her front, but j2C j4D d.6C connected at some point which leads me to believe you can still sideswap at will with j4D d.2D if close enough. Also Noel players have completely forgotten combo theory and never go for 22B oki or d.5B 214D corner carry, instead they're still pretty much flailing around.

 

And yeah, 4D got beaten clean by another Noel's d.2D, which may mean it lost projectile invincibility and thus was beaten by d.2D's head attribute. Or it simply doesn't have invincibility for the entire duration of the 30f startup but that would make the move suck major ass so I dunno. RIP 4D.

 

The one time I saw a Noel try and end her drive corner combo with 236C 6C(2) 6B 22B, the 6C whiffed... but it was from a throw combo so in BBCP1 it would have also whiffed after d.236D. Nothing conclusive on that front. I'm thinking it probably still works because in all other situations new 236C behaves as good or better as old d.236D in corner combos.

 

Edit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcfem2G2ufc&feature=player_detailpage&list=UUyV9c57z3v5Ot5d4PklDxeA#t=810

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcfem2G2ufc&feature=player_detailpage&list=UUyV9c57z3v5Ot5d4PklDxeA#t=852

Combos/resets still need fine tuning but this is a start.

[mMarikom]

Iunno about you guys but after seeing those I'm definitely hopeful. Let's give it some time and see what people come up with. We might be surprised.

[LunaKage]

Few notes:

 

- Noel's grab whiff animation has longer recovery

- Tager is still a stupid matchup

 

Just from watching these videos, I can tell they didn't make any attempts at fixing Noel's fundamental problems. They just nerfed her drive reversals AGAIN, changed her combos AGAIN, and nerfed some of her general abilities even more. That grab speed was one of Noel's few saving graces. I don't know guys, I just don't see how she's strong at all, if anything she just seems worse than her CP1 incarnation.

[Litherain-XIII]

See what im saying? _-_

[Arcknight]

Moving the Fatal property from a strong/popular punish, and then slapping it onto a crippled 5D, is a very bizarre move. I am not sure anyone throws out a random 5D any more. Maybe they thought the old way was too strong?

 

I saw 4D do a regular counter-hit and it hurt my soul.

[Litherain-XIII]

this new noel so far is hurting my spirit....need....auto life spell.....and regen...

[Demon Wind Bomb]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iw_lHleGAGc&list=UUrGNVruyuifBK_GeeWN2Rgw#t=36m38s

 

Alright, time for some good news.

 

j.C>j.D is midscreen can still combo. This Noel manages to do it on both Ragna and Jin. I don't know how well it'll work on smaller characters.

4D >AT is also still works in the corner.

Noel still has 22B oki in the corner so that's a relief.

 

The d.6B nerf is very noticeable. It looks like using it in some combos causes the whole thing to fall apart. Jin was also able to backdash out of it as well.

 

In any case the above link has a Noel experimenting in training mode (as well as some matches) so feel free to check it out.

[LunaKage]

Some notes:

 

-d.6B doesn't seem to be that bad, the only reason it dropped in that combo was due to the previous move. That particular confirm doesn't work in CP1.1 either.

-j.C > j.2C > j.4D does combo, but it seems like it has to be early in the j.C, and it must be close to the ground.

-4D must have lost projectile invuln, it completely lost to Jin's 6D. 

-Corner Standing hit 236C > Microdash 5A works, giving us a little more leeway that we previously thought.

-Midscreen 236C > Rapid > 665B now looks to be impossible.

-Upon closer inspection, forward momentum was added to 236C

- 6B > 5D > d.5C > d.6C > d.4D > d.6C > 214A is still possible, but due to the changes in j.D, it's followup is uncertain, it's currently unknown if there's a way to put them back in the corner afterwards.

-It seems her stagger pressure may be more viable now, the buff in 5A has a lot to do with it, perhaps her 2A and 2B received a buff as well?

 

I dunno, her major flaws are still present, but they weakened her gimmick, and it also seems likeher oki is situational. The changes to j.D and Bloom Trigger really hurt us here.

[Adsfzxczxc]

Combo Video with the new routes (by watagashi)

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24697900

Edit: www.youtube.com/watch?v=XigKr2GFSYI&feature=youtu.be

if you can't watch nico videos,  then for the moment too bad. It has a bunch of midscreen confirms and corner confirms from drive mixup, 4d 5a, 2b, 6b and throw.

he also posted most if not all of the combos onto his twitter (https://twitter.com/watagasi414)

 

Couple of notes:

-Corner 22B oki is still totally feasible, just doesn't seem like you can convert midscreen to corner hits into 22b oki as easily because of the BT change

-Corner/midscreen damage seems about the same with exception of 4D

-4D combos lost like 800 damage and now only do about 3k midscreen/corner

-6B into MF combos in the corner still allow you to side swap and put them back in the corner(!!!)

-6B...MF>2B>6C(1)>j.D>d.2D (sideswap)

-236C seems to replace 236D in all the corner combos now, and it does allow you to follow up with 5B/6C/5C if you do something like 6D>236C

-CT doesn't bounce as high now (if at all). Has enough untech to follow up with 2C/5C

-combos into 236D in the corner can still followed up with 5B/6C if you hit them high enough (e.g. 6C>4D>236D>665B)

-5A>5B>6A>j.2D>j.4D works so you can get okay damage from 5A midscreen

-236D wall bounces midscreen so no more super long slide

-you can do d.5B>236A>dc>6C but it seems like you have to hit them really high up (with a 6D before d.5b)

-corner carry still seems really good, maybe even better than before due to how far you move with the j.2C combos

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87gOfyQQTLc&list=UUyV9c57z3v5Ot5d4PklDxeA

-You can actually do standing hit 236C>RC>2B>combo midscreen (2:31)

-Midscreen to corner combo into 236C>66C>6B>22B oki seems possible in some combos

 

Overall nothing too crazy, just a showcase of a couple new routes.

[Litherain-XIII]

Finally. watagashi has saved a few of us from going bitch mode for another day. the combos in his vid now gives us a more clearer view of her combos and damage potential in 2.0 i agree its not that bad. she lost some damage in certain areas but actually got more damage in certain combos that would be under 400 damge in 1.1 which is actually cool. takes a load off my mind now.

[someonewhodied]

I don't see 4D>214D>6C>6B in the corner used anymore.

 

Did 214D get nerfed?

[Litherain-XIII]

No really its just that we basically cant get into that route much most of the time because bloom trigger was nerfed to the point we cant get that set up anymore in the corner OR we could but its not optimal enough since we still trying to figure out her bnbs with all the nerfs. And the j.D nerf also helped in nerfing noels basic combo routes forcing us to do things that do less damage and less combo potential overall.

[Altimit01]

I was talking about the changes with some of my local community and someone pointed out that if d.6B got slowed down to match d.6D, it would remove the high-low block OS some people use during drive mix-up. So it might not be all bad news for that move.