[Xrd] Venom Q&A Thread

[Badoor]

Hi there, first time poster on Dustloop. So with Bishop Runout sometimes when I'm trying to setup balls for it and then activate the overdrive, the balls spin around it like they're in gravitational pull before getting sucked in (instead of what usually happens which is the balls immediately get sucked in as soon as the super flash timestop ends and the bishop ball grows). I believe this happens if you use a H ball as the last one you set. Is there any use for this variation of the bishop runout at all? Or is this to deter some sort of exploit or something?

[DaiAndOh]

To be completely honest....I have no idea what causes it or what the properties of it are. It doesn't power up your Bishop though with that ball if it doesn't get sucked in during the duration somhow...so that much is quite disappointing (I'd just rather have the ball at its max strength right way...

[Raynex]

I'm having problems stopping iad pressure when I'm cornered, as 6P and AA 2H don't seem to work well at that angle. A specific example would be a Sol blockstring like: 2K,c.S,5H jc iad j.SH. It's a stronger iad string that catches me into a dp confirm if I jump out, or leads to more pressure if I block it. 

I've come up with 3 solutions but I don't know if they're good / if there are more alternatives. Mine seem risky / inconsistent based on my testing.

- FD to push opponent out of range for 5H to hit, negating the jc
- Blitz the iad aerial
- Just Guard the JCable normal and airthrow

Am I thinking about this correctly or can I do other things?

[DaiAndOh]

Those are generally some of the main options. There's also dead angles and bursting as well. You can also try 2D, making j.S potentially whiff and having Sol land into it.

Also make sure you're ready to potentially whiff punish the 5HS on that first option again.

[PANDEMlC]

So I've been wanting to play Venom for years but I find him incredibly daunting. Is there a good place to start with him? Maybe some basic bnbs, some simple ball formations, some general tips for normals, oki, charge tricks, etc. I feel like if I can just get into the basics of the character I can slowly stack on more and more info until I can actually be fairly competent. If you guys know of any posts, videos, or whatever that you think could help I would greatly appreciate it. One of my favorite fighting game characters to watch and it'd be amazing to finally play him.

[Pomparomp]

the combo thread and ball formations OP are really good. Start out with basic p ball oki with TK mad struggle for overheads and once you're comfortable start learning K ball oki. You will have no pressure game if you can't learn 2k > c.s (2) > carcass raid, which isn't an air tight option but it's your most basic pressure string and you'll learn how to be a charge wizard through it. 

The only real advice i can give you that isn't really in any OP is ball sets are for when they're not running at you, and your best neutral tools are actually 6p, 2s, and f.s canceled into ball sets, stinger aims and carcass raids. Greedy ball sets lose every venom in the world games.

[AznSpyderman]

@Pomparomp really hit everything possible, I think.

I'd like to add a few things.

2D is a really good, low profiling move. It beats some moves clean like Sol's Bandit Revolver and (DO NOT RELY ON THIS AT ALL) will sometimes beat Chipp's TSM (The leaf command grab). My point being, it's a really good move. It's also his only low other than 2K.

You asked about BnBs.

The basics are these:

Normal, standing opponent:

cS(3), IAD (pause on Sol, immediately on Pot, everyone else is almost the same), j.SHD -
- 6H > set (P or K is recommended, H for advanced setups)
- 6H > QV (corner only)
- dash, j.KSHD, land, 6H, set (Ky, Bedman, Potemkin, and a few others only. It might work on Sin and Faust. It doesn't work on any female characters)

Normal, crouching opponent:
cS(2), 5H, KQV, 5k, 6p, 6h - There's a few variations on this, and I think it doesn't work on everyone but it's a good start. I have upwards of 15-20 different combos on crouching characters, depending on what I want to do, including multiple QV combos for setups and knockdowns for okis. Play with QV as much as you want. Note that Leo and Potemkin can be hit by cS(3) while crouching, so there's that.

Throw, mid-screen:
throw, dash, cS(3) or 2H(2), SCR, IAD, SHD, end with 6H > set or 6H QV.

Throw, corner:
5H, KQV, 5k, 6P, 6H, SQV (I like S for this because you can jump back and hit the ball for oki and have a variety of options)

Air throw:
cS xx H set, dash, 6P, 6H, set.

 

That should get you started. The next step is to get creative with setups from the combos and then learn how to integrate more sets and/or QVs into your combos for more advanced setups. Don't go for damage. Getting hit with a bunch of balls does more damage than his combos, very generally speaking.

[DaiAndOh]

Just to clarify a couple of things

c.S(3) IAD is NOT a true IAD. Do a neutral jump then airdash. 866 instead of 956. Also you'll need to slight delay on Millia as well as Sol.

Wiki can help too with what I have filled in...and of course, specific questions are all good. Hoping I can finish the guide soon *sigh*

[AznSpyderman]

25 minutes ago, DaiAndOh said:

Just to clarify a couple of things

c.S(3) IAD is NOT a true IAD. Do a neutral jump then airdash. 866 instead of 956. Also you'll need to slight delay on Millia as well as Sol.

Wiki can help too with what I have filled in...and of course, specific questions are all good. Hoping I can finish the guide soon *sigh*

Dai, you sure? Because I swear I only put two inputs in. I'm not anywhere near home to test that out though.

[DaiAndOh]

956 is generally done during throw and QV combos. I tried it when the game came out and couldn't get the combo. I asked Ruu for advice and he does 866, but also said some players use super jump. In the end, if it works for you, it works.

[Pomparomp]

956 works on everyone, you just got to do it slowly, not a true IAD. 866/super jump IAD seems to work for most people, but the extra input made it hard for my hands to do reliably even in just training mode.

I guess what I'm saying is if you've got a disability see if you have more reliable results with a slower, simpler input?

[AznSpyderman]

That all makes sense. It's perhaps why I end up mashing 6 when I'm online because I'm not doing it slow enough, coupled with lag - live, i'm fine with it.

I wasn't sure if you were saying that it doesn't work at all. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Also, Pandemic I wanna add something to corner combos. If you end the combo with a QV, you could also end with HQV. In the case you're close enough due to a shorter combo, it will be off screen and you can use that as a way to cancel any hit/blocked normals into teleport and you'll be VERY close to them and super low. At most, you'll have 3 really solid overheads from it, which can of course be mixed up with mad struggle to pause and max distance 5D.

Another crouch combo off of cS(2) is cS(2), 2D(1), SCR, microdash, cS(2), JC, whatever you want. It doesn't work on some and since I don't do this combo often, I can't off the top of my head. I'm in Dubai and my PS3's in New York so there's that...

Edited January 3, 2016 by AznSpyderman

[TittyFOFO]

Does that combo even work outside of the corner? I almost never do it unless I'm doing K ball oki and go for a 2D without meter for RRC. If you're confirming off of 5S(c) on a crouching character and you have the skill for microdash combos, you should prolly be doing SQV>5P>BH>IAD combos instead to maximize damage IMO.

Now, a question of my own. Does anyone know how many frames faster it is using the button hold method of ball summoning rather than doing it manually? I can't tell if its really just faster, or if my inputs are just slow. That's something I wanna start implementing into my game more since it'd allow for better charging options and more rock-solid oki.

[Badoor]

1 hour ago, TittyFOFO said:

Now, a question of my own. Does anyone know how many frames faster it is using the button hold method of ball summoning rather than doing it manually? I can't tell if its really just faster, or if my inputs are just slow. That's something I wanna start implementing into my game more since it'd allow for better charging options and more rock-solid oki.

It's the same speed as doing them manually. Of course with the button hold method you do guarantee quickest possible multiple ball summons (and can charge in the mean time, as you mentioned, which allows for some interesting oki set-ups). However, be wary of using it for zoning since you may end up committing to multiple ball summons when the opponent can rush in and punish you. Do NOT do ball holding method for Ball Set SH, 5P ball hit, for example.

[AznSpyderman]

On 1/3/2016 at 9:47 AM, TittyFOFO said:

Does that combo even work outside of the corner? I almost never do it unless I'm doing K ball oki and go for a 2D without meter for RRC. If you're confirming off of 5S(c) on a crouching character and you have the skill for microdash combos, you should prolly be doing SQV>5P>BH>IAD combos instead to maximize damage IMO.

Now, a question of my own. Does anyone know how many frames faster it is using the button hold method of ball summoning rather than doing it manually? I can't tell if its really just faster, or if my inputs are just slow. That's something I wanna start implementing into my game more since it'd allow for better charging options and more rock-solid oki.

Which combo are you asking about?

[TittyFOFO]

5S(c), 2D xx SCR, microdash 5S(c).

[AznSpyderman]

On 1/5/2016 at 9:30 AM, TittyFOFO said:

5S(c), 2D xx SCR, microdash 5S(c).

Meant to answer this much earlier, but I forgot. It works with a 2K starter too.

 

[AznSpyderman]

On 1/1/2016 at 2:32 AM, AznSpyderman said:

cS(3), IAD (pause on Sol, immediately on Pot, everyone else is almost the same), j.SHD -
- 6H > set (P or K is recommended, H for advanced setups)
- 6H > QV (corner only)
- dash, j.KSHD, land, 6H, set (Ky, Bedman, Potemkin, and a few others only. It might work on Sin and Faust. It doesn't work on any female characters)

 

Correction.

It works on Ramlethal.

2K, cS(3), IAD, SHD, 66, jKSHD, land, 6H works on Ram. The timing is REALLY awkward... But it CAN work.

Notes:
cS(3) - maximum delay before IAD. Ramlethal needs to be almost grounded when the D hits.
then you'll need a 'longer' microdash than say against Ky so she falls SLIGHTLY lower.
Lastly, j.KSHD - Normally, the delay is on the K. This time, you want to NOT have that but maximize the distance betweeen H and D. If you don't do this, she will be too high to 6H.

That said, it's easier to NOT go for the 6H, and instead set up an H ball for teleports instead. If she recovers forward, the teleport will crossup.

[AznSpyderman]

I have a question about cancels.

I've been trying the last week to mess around with the 310 BRO setups and you know what part I'm having the MOST difficulty with? Canceling the ballset into BRO.

Meaning, I'll start out with whatever into knockdown, cancel the 2D into a ballset which I attempt to cancel into BRO... I've looked at my inputs and I have it perfectly as: 2, 1, 4, 4P, 2, 3, 6, 3, 2, 1, 4, 4H.

Sometimes it comes out, sometimes it doesn't. Is it a timing thing? Can I only super cancel at a specific point? If that's the case, how do I tell if I'm doing it too fast or too slow?

[Badoor]

5 minutes ago, AznSpyderman said:

I have a question about cancels.

I've been trying the last week to mess around with the 310 BRO setups and you know what part I'm having the MOST difficulty with? Canceling the ballset into BRO.

Meaning, I'll start out with whatever into knockdown, cancel the 2D into a ballset which I attempt to cancel into BRO... I've looked at my inputs and I have it perfectly as: 2, 1, 4, 4P, 2, 3, 6, 3, 2, 1, 4, 4H.

Sometimes it comes out, sometimes it doesn't. Is it a timing thing? Can I only super cancel at a specific point? If that's the case, how do I tell if I'm doing it too fast or too slow?

Execution stuff like this is really hard to get help with online due to the nature of it. I mean the inputs look fine, all I can say is practice and maybe change up the timing a bit. Slow it down, speed it up,  do it early, and do it late, then see where the sweet spot is and you should get the hang of it.

 

One thing I can comment on is your odd use of the terms "Canceling" and "Super Canceling". For one, Guilty Gear Xrd does not have Super Cancels (and the series never did). You can't cancel the recovery frames of a special move (like ball set) into an super/overdrive (like Bishop Runout). If you are actually trying to do that then that's probably why you're messing up. You're gonna have to wait a tiny bit after ball set so you could then do Bishop Runout. But you should be able to buffer BRO during ball set easily and activate it the first frame after ball set ends. That's actually how you do 310's (pretty amazing) BRO setups.

[AznSpyderman]

28 minutes ago, BadoorSNK said:

Execution stuff like this is really hard to get help with online due to the nature of it. I mean the inputs look fine, all I can say is practice and maybe change up the timing a bit. Slow it down, speed it up,  do it early, and do it late, then see where the sweet spot is and you should get the hang of it.

 

One thing I can comment on is your odd use of the terms "Canceling" and "Super Canceling". For one, Guilty Gear Xrd does not have Super Cancels (and the series never did). You can't cancel the recovery frames of a special move (like ball set) into an super/overdrive (like Bishop Runout). If you are actually trying to do that then that's probably why you're messing up. You're gonna have to wait a tiny bit after ball set so you could then do Bishop Runout. But you should be able to buffer BRO during ball set easily and activate it the first frame after ball set ends. That's actually how you do 310's (pretty amazing) BRO setups.

Not having cancels REALLY helps. Thanks, I know exactly what I'm doing wrong then. Much appreciated.

[DaiAndOh]

While true in methodology, there are super cancels, it's just normal to super, but yeah it's not a cancel here. Also Sin can do special > super since he's a special little snowflake.

I'm having a weird problem myself with the midscreen ones, I can't hit the Bishop as low as he does after the S Carcass, so 2S whiffs Bishop. I can use f.S to do similar, but worse things...anyone else run into that issue?

[AznSpyderman]

14 hours ago, DaiAndOh said:

While true in methodology, there are super cancels, it's just normal to super, but yeah it's not a cancel here. Also Sin can do special > super since he's a special little snowflake.

I'm having a weird problem myself with the midscreen ones, I can't hit the Bishop as low as he does after the S Carcass, so 2S whiffs Bishop. I can use f.S to do similar, but worse things...anyone else run into that issue?

I had that problem. After the BRO bounces off the corner, IT MUST hit the opponent upon reactivating. It will bounce off of them and get low enough. I don't know how to describe it, but it's absolutely position specific.

 

I can't get it consistent at all. I think I'd be able to figure it out if I understood the properties of how BRO activates / deactivates, or rather is a hitbox versus a ball set.

[AznSpyderman]

On 2/8/2016 at 5:31 PM, DaiAndOh said:

While true in methodology, there are super cancels, it's just normal to super, but yeah it's not a cancel here. Also Sin can do special > super since he's a special little snowflake.

I'm having a weird problem myself with the midscreen ones, I can't hit the Bishop as low as he does after the S Carcass, so 2S whiffs Bishop. I can use f.S to do similar, but worse things...anyone else run into that issue?

Dai, you figure this one out yet?

[DaiAndOh]

No, but i didn't put much time into it frankly...might just stick with simple Dark Angel there in those situations...