[Xrd] Leo Whitefang General Discussion

[Mal]

True, I just tested with them very very close, and they always got caught. Maybe they weren't just as close the time the second BT D came out.
Can you test how easy it is for them to wait for the second BT D to trigger and throw?
I don't think it would be easy because it would trigger the proximity counter... but I still need to test it.

[greatfernman]

Sorry I'm about to head out. Maybe later

as far as i'm aware leo won't be throwable until he can act again so if they run up and try to throw you can P or K them i think.

if they meaty your invul to beat P or K then you can counter again to beat that.

this is just theory fighting though so that it with a grain of salt

[zankoku]

The counter trigger is indeed unblockable. If they're close enough they literally teleport into the animation.

[DocCeaser]

I've seen a lot of discussion here about how good [4]6S YRC is in neutral but has anyone tried it out in blockstrings? A string like 5K>c.S>5H>[4]6S YRC seems like a really good way to continue pressure. 5H>[4]6S YRC is a frame trap that leads to full combos on hit and if they block the projectile then you can keep going with pressure. If you do this from point-blank range you can be thrown before the projectile comes out but the timing is really tight. I just started messing with this last night and I was wondering if you guys have already been using this?

[Mal]

DocCeaser, it may be something cool to throw once in a while. I do prefer to use 2D after 5HS in the situations where you would like to use [4]6S YRC - it's safe and you cannot be thrown, and I will use the tension to start [4]6HS YRC oki if it hits. Do you have time to apply a legit mixup after [4]6S in a blockstring without meter?

[DocCeaser]

DocCeaser, it may be something cool to throw once in a while. I do prefer to use 2D after 5HS in the situations where you would like to use [4]6S YRC - it's safe and you cannot be thrown, and I will use the tension to start [4]6HS YRC oki if it hits. Do you have time to apply a legit mixup after [4]6S in a blockstring without meter?

[4]6S is -8 on block so you can't do a mixup. The only way you can get a legit mixup is with an RRC. A YRC only gives you enough time for pressure until you condition them to block. 

[R. Mika]

Can bt.D counter any Overdrive that makes contact?

[greatfernman]

I translated the changes from the change list

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s296/sh/81dc6240-3441-41c0-a695-1a31d8829abd/343aa75820e81634b9e3e4fb3ca1c2dd

[Pichy]

And Google removed it. Just copypaste the text into a post.

[greatfernman]

my bad edited and here it is pasted

5K: 

5K now gatlings into 6P

 

[4]6S:

Now has infinite range

Lower region of the hitbox is larger

 

[4]6H:

Moves slower

Lower region of the hitbox is larger

 

214S (during rekkas):

Added throw invul

 

Stance D (b.D):

Damage changed from 60 to 90

Can now be YRCed, but only at the beginning

 

j.236H:

Cannot be burst on hit

Advantage on hit changed from +2 to +3

[Tenj|n]

Can bt.D counter any Overdrive that makes contact?

 

I think it only works for physical ODs, i managed to counter Bedman's clock super once. :s

[Mal]

Yay buffs! :D

5K into 6P - slightly more damage to some combos since you can now 5K 6P cS air combo? Standard combo starter is now 5K 6P cS 5H/6K? Also new blockstring possibilities (anything useful? I can only think of 6P>6HS)? It would be nice if you could empty gatling it lol

[4]6S infinite range rofl :D also, no more stun dippers under it, probably...

214S during rekkas throw invuln - I guess this only makes sense if you did Rekka12 on block and they could just throw without having to fear mistiming a 3f-4f attack and eating a b.D after it... 

 

b.D - YRC is nice, and even more damage? OP! :P When I read this I thought they were removing the followup combos, because right now you can do an easy, tensionless 140dmg combo on mid weights and 160+dmg on light weights after it.

j.236H - now b.K cannot be beaten by perfectly timed 3f moves :P

[DarkZero197]

Judging by the buffs, these aren't ground breaking but leo is definitely stronger and has a better time anti airing and competing with characters with projectiles that go full screen

I'm theory fighting but maybe Counter can be yrc OS'd

Are these changes official? The damage buff is great, since I get more damage for countering FREAKING BURSTS

[Maho]

- 5K into 6P : It's nice for conversions on 5K air hit, you get fS a lot of times and that screw up combos (or make it impossible), also this means that there will be one use for a far CH 2D > 5P > 5K on lightweights, as it will result in some nice damage and oki.

 

- Fireballs changes : really nice for neutral and pressure, one thing i fear is that [4]-6H YRC oki will suffer a lot from blitzshield buff.

 

- 214S throw invuln : I was hoping for raw 236H to get that, this is really gimmicky.

 

- bt.D : YRC is interesting, we'll have to wait and see for how long we can wait to do it, damage buff is nice and needed IMO as easier reversals will be a big problem for stance mixups,especially against DP characters.

 

- j236H : it should have been like that from the start, more a fix than a buff.

 

Hopefully he'll get more changes, because with those only, Leo is better but not by much, stance mixup is still a guessing game that doesn't favor really favor (just think of easier reversal backdashes), you just have more damage if you guess right with a counter.

[Zeero]

i hope the sonic boom hitbox can actually hit eddie now, coz it couldn't before and thats just stupid.

[zankoku]

rekka123 on block is generally stupid and especially bad without meter for RC, but situationally handy as a frame-trap against people mashing or up-backing, or as a funny way of hitting people failing to switch block direction after blocked rekka12. Unfortunately it could also be thrown on startup even when doing Dritt as soon as possible. I guess this just stops throw from being a braindead solution while still maintaining its limited usefulness as an option on block.

[Zeero]

you can throw the 2nd hit of rekka too btw if they ib, make that throw invincible then this might actually be helpful.

[greatfernman]

https://twitter.com/simo_niki/status/563158324628041728

 

dash distance extended

S DP is like Reload bentengari?? (not sure if i translated that right)

seems that DP changed so all hits will hit (was there ever a case where all hits of DP didn't hit?)

stance D can really only the YRCed at the very first few frames

[zankoku]

There's two situations where not every hit connects. I wonder which one they'd refer to.

- If you were high enough hits into a corner combo, H flashkick will be pushed too far back after the first hit to land the rest.

- If the opponent crosses you up during startup of H flashkick, they'd get sent away from you backward while you continue forward, making the knockdown hit worthless.

 

All I know about Bentengari is that it's this

[greatfernman]

yeah idk what he means that it's like bentengari now but we'll see. i'm still trying to find tweets about the full list of leo changes but to no avail

[Tenj|n]

Raw 236H throw invincible sounds pretty pointless to me, rekka 2's would help a whole better. My match opponents are always holding H while blocking rekka 1.

 

D stance YRC, what is a practical use for it?

 

 

 

 

seems that DP changed so all hits will hit (was there ever a case where all hits of DP didn't hit?)

 

 

Not sure if this means the DP horizontal range for all hits are now equal to that of the final swing's :s

[DarkZero197]

 

 

D stance YRC, what is a practical use for it?

 

If your opponent does not press a button, the yrc is a safer way and less expensive meter wise to make your self safe I would assume, but if it can only be YRCd during the beginning frames I do not know how that would work out

 

Also I think you are throw invincible during the slow down of yrc so perhaps throw gimmicks?

[R. Mika]

Making his HS Graviert Wurd slower is actually really cool, cuz it means that YRCing it will give you a crazy amount of coverage plus more time to plan your mixup once it hits. I really like these buffs overall <3

[Tenj|n]

If your opponent does not press a button, the yrc is a safer way and less expensive meter wise to make your self safe I would assume, but if it can only be YRCd during the beginning frames I do not know how that would work out

 

Also I think you are throw invincible during the slow down of yrc so perhaps throw gimmicks?

 

D stance YRC during start up frames window sounds like a fake-out but i guess bt.D > YRC > bt.K is a mix-up option? Unless you go back to neutral stance after the bt.D YRC.... Any confirmation on this?

[Maho]

YRC does get you out of stance now, it would be cool for mixups if it doesn't but YRC couldn't be used as a fast way out of stance anymore so I'm not sure I want it.

 

Raw 236H throw invincible sounds pretty pointless to me, rekka 2's would help a whole better. My match opponents are always holding H while blocking rekka 1.

Throw invuln on raw 236H would mean that you can use it as a mixup on wakeup (depending on distance it goes crossup or not) and you'll get a combo with meter or CH, also a mixup on block. It would also be a bit better in pressure, of course the opponent would be able to mash out with normals, but normals needs fastest reflexes, and it would get rid of the OS throw that's easy to do against it.

Rekka 2 on block is more gimmicky, when Rekka 1 is blocked your pressure is over and you're safe unless IB'd by a few characters, if you do Rekka 2 you're exposed to a punish unless you have meter and having throw invuln wouldn't change that.

Not being able to throw there would just give you a safe way to go for the new Rekka 3 gimmick "do I stop at -6 and hope my opponent doesn't punish or do I do another move that's even worse on block to fish for a CH?"

The problem is unless they change it, CH Rekka 3 isn't a big threat unless you have meter to combo out of hit (there'e no ground slide state like CH bt.214S), so the payout isn't really worh the risk IMO.