Mengjun Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) So I've started the work of compiling frame data (starting with Daigo) and there seems to be some unusual things with how normals work. It looks like links are impossible even though the normals should allow them. For example, Daigo's 6B is +5 on hit, he very clearly goes back to his idle animation, but even still his 5A, which has a 3 frame startup, simply won't link no matter what. It's like there's "chain frames" after the recovery that only allows you to use a normal that can be chained from the normal you just used and nothing else. I suppose it does make chains easier, but completely eliminating links makes me sad. EDIT: Daigo's page updated with frame data. Double edit: Whoops, forgot his Big Bang Break. I'll get to that later. Did some testing myself, on the wiki it says that 6B is +5 on hit/block, but the jump test seems to suggest that 6B is completely neutral on block. Tried Fraps recording as well, and it seems that there are some (3?) weird frames in 6B's recovery that look a lot like Daigo's idle animation, but are not. Considering that, 6B might actually be +2 on hit, explaining why 6B won't link into 5A. Also, is it me, or does the game react weirdly to trades? EDIT: "KojiroU" should be "Kojirou" right? (on the wiki) Edited October 6, 2011 by Mengjun
TSHKN Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 yeah it is I did it that way because their were u 2 wiki for him and i couldnt name it Kojirou if you or someone wants fix that be cool
Mengjun Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) Fixed that, and the Changelog page. EDIT: Lol, apparently the jump startup has a smaller hitbox or something. Daigo's jab whiffs on Rouga during jump startup o_o. Edited October 6, 2011 by Mengjun
TSHKN Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 LOL Mengjun also should add Agito corner chainsaw loop to his page
JohnGrimm Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 Did some testing myself, on the wiki it says that 6B is +5 on hit/block, but the jump test seems to suggest that 6B is completely neutral on block. Tried Fraps recording as well, and it seems that there are some (3?) weird frames in 6B's recovery that look a lot like Daigo's idle animation, but are not. Considering that, 6B might actually be +2 on hit, explaining why 6B won't link into 5A. That's why I was going with my "chain frames" theory. Every move in the game is like that, it looks like you go back to your idle animation, but you can't do an attack unless it's a normal or special that can cancel the first normal. It makes it weird to actually record frame data, because I'm pretty sure you could block after these things, but links are impossible.
TSHKN Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 good shit on the change log stuff for the wiki Mengjun i also fix Kojirou name on some of the other pages so it should look better now
Mengjun Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 That's why I was going with my "chain frames" theory. Every move in the game is like that, it looks like you go back to your idle animation, but you can't do an attack unless it's a normal or special that can cancel the first normal. It makes it weird to actually record frame data, because I'm pretty sure you could block after these things, but links are impossible. Makes sense, but it's pretty weird. Makes it pretty bad to put links in blockstrings, even when using "frame advantage".
JohnGrimm Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 Makes sense, but it's pretty weird. Makes it pretty bad to put links in blockstrings, even when using "frame advantage". Block strings will consist of chains anyways. It sucks that they made links impossible, but I suppose that links would probably lead to more problems. At least we can know which moves are advantageous so that you can make blockstrings safe.
Mengjun Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 Chains are causing enough troubles as is, indeed ^^ *Looks at Kojirou's 6A(1 hit) > 2C loop.*
Negative-Zer0 Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 As far as that kunagi video i watched, that kunagi was not abusing her godlike blockstings. She can basically push you to the corner and do some real damage. But he just went with straight ABC chains which isn't a good blockstring. C is not a good way to end a blockstring, i just end with low b into a b fireball. But i delay hit to see i can get a hitconfirm. That Erika was godlike though, and so was that rouga. I think that Erika could've done a little better but that rouga showed me some b dash mixups i didn't even know. Then again, rouga is like my 3rdary. toodles.
JohnGrimm Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 I personally didn't like that Rouga's damage. He did not maximize his damage output at all. He had good pressure, but good pressure with Rouga is like being able to breathe well. He often didn't capitalize on hits and his main BnB was not optimal to begin with. Also, that boost mixup is pretty basic I though. It's good for the ever popular triple overhead setup in case the first overhead is blocked.
Mengjun Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 I dunno, it seems like the 214A > 5A link was removed in the last version, so I think the 214A > 214B > 2C loop is optimal.
JohnGrimm Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 I dunno, it seems like the 214A > 5A link was removed in the last version, so I think the 214A > 214B > 2C loop is optimal. That's not the problem. Of course 214A > 214B > 2C is optimal, my problem is that he ends every combo with 5B > 5C > 6A > 623A, which is NOT optimal. Even just doing 5B > 5C > j.B > j.C is more damage than that. The most optimal damage combo ender with Rouga though is 2C > 6A > j.A > j.B > boost > j.B xx j.214A, but that's new technology and I don't expect the Japanese to know about it yet (funny how this is the first game where the US and other countries seem to be ahead of Japan).
SolxBaiken Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 Erika "kumite" Erika vs Rouga Erika vs Kunagi
JohnGrimm Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 Erika "kumite" Erika vs Rouga Erika vs Kunagi I take it these are your matches? Does the game record replays or do you have to record while playing?
SolxBaiken Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 I take it these are your matches? Does the game record replays or do you have to record while playing? LOLOL I wish I was that good! Nah I grabbed these from Nico, but once I get netplay I would LOVE to test out these combos and setups + w+
JohnGrimm Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) LOLOL I wish I was that good! Nah I grabbed these from Nico, but once I get netplay I would LOVE to test out these combos and setups + w+ Well never mind then, hah. That Rouga player boosts a lot, it's pretty weird to see someone land a j.214A and then boost. Also, that Ren player was godlike. EDIT: While that Rouga player wasn't doing optimal combos either, he certainly helped me figure out an even better one. Doing 5C after 6A has a kind of tricky timing, but you certainly get quite a bit more damage off of it. Edited October 7, 2011 by JohnGrimm
Mengjun Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 That's not the problem. Of course 214A > 214B > 2C is optimal, my problem is that he ends every combo with 5B > 5C > 6A > 623A, which is NOT optimal. Even just doing 5B > 5C > j.B > j.C is more damage than that. The most optimal damage combo ender with Rouga though is 2C > 6A > j.A > j.B > boost > j.B xx j.214A, but that's new technology and I don't expect the Japanese to know about it yet (funny how this is the first game where the US and other countries seem to be ahead of Japan). Bit of testing gives me that 5B > 5C > 6A > 623A probably pretty close to being the optimal ender; it at least does more damage than 5B > 5C > j.B > j.C. (only ~60 more after a long combo) But yea, that boost ender seems to be the real optimal ender. I wonder what kind of ender that Rouga in that first vid is trying to do =o 2C > 6A > 5C > 6A > ...?
JohnGrimm Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 Bit of testing gives me that 5B > 5C > 6A > 623A probably pretty close to being the optimal ender; it at least does more damage than 5B > 5C > j.B > j.C. (only ~60 more after a long combo) But yea, that boost ender seems to be the real optimal ender. I wonder what kind of ender that Rouga in that first vid is trying to do =o 2C > 6A > 5C > 6A > ...? No idea what he was doing, but I know what I'm doing from now on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDLOk2nzCCY
Squil Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 I used him in bbb1st, right now he isnt finish, missing moves and combo wise he is very very limited Are you sure that he isnt finished and the "combo,missing moves" are not intended to be this way to balance or something? Cause its kinda weird to see that they release a lot of patches and let a char unfinished...
TSHKN Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 yeah even if BBBR out still feels very unfinished to the old one to me
JohnGrimm Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 So does anyone know why Ren's falling and standing animations are faster than everyone else's in the game?
Mengjun Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 No idea what he was doing, but I know what I'm doing from now on. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDLOk2nzCCY Nice!
TSHKN Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 yo Mengjun have u tried testing chainsaw corner loop with Agito i havnt found how many loop u can do yet
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now