Mizzet

What nerfs were there? 5d having less invulnerability is not exactly an easy thing to test for, might be less, might be the same. I'll hold my judgment until I get more more than just anecdotal evidence. 22b/c changes were described as negligible, we'll see. 22b's change gets translated as either 'hitbox narrowed' or 'reduced range', the latter might actually be a buff as 22b hitting so far away is what makes haida loop spacing difficult on anyone that's not Tager/Hakumen/Bang. In any case, you could completely remove haida loops and Noel wouldn't be that affected, you can get comparable damage (100-150 less at most) for far less effort with her 623d 66c link combos, and this is compared to a full 4 rep haida. Depending on how fast the new j.4d is it could be very very good. Right now it's literally not used at all. 2c>5c is like.. a 100 dmg increase to her piss poor abare if you don't hitconfirm your 5a's and 2b's to 6a, so now you can do 5b 5c 2c 5c. Meh, anything helps, it's a start. Overall I'm pretty optimistic, and it's the first loketest anyway, no point losing too much sleep over it.

My friend who translated it mentioned something about j.4d being fast enough to act as a legit crossup, think Taokaka's D~B shenanigans, if that's true it would be pretty sweet. On jumping in you can make people guess between high (j.a/j.b) and low (j.4d), might be interesting.

Twitter update Noel: j4D is low hit. Haida aoe smaller, but not noticeable.

Regarding the "u can't even see her falling" bit of j.4d, maybe they removed the movement component of it and made it a teleport, that would be cool haha. And if it still crossed up depending on positioning I don't know what to say anymore. Would be somewhat balanced if it retained it's slow ass startup time. If j.4d becomes a little better/faster/whatever, maybe JC halfway out of a blockstring at 5b into j.4d might be worth a damn. Come to think of it 2c>5c gattling means Noel's god awful abare is.. still awful, but at least you get an extra 5c! another 100-200 damage? Land a poke and you can do 5b 5c 2c 5c. Noel's abare still sucks and 5b 5c 2c 5c is a terrible reward for landing a poke, but if you JC at the end and could use j.4d to continue pressure it might be somewhat useful. Quite a lot does hinge on whether j.4d will be worth using or not.

On a side note I laughed so hard when I read about Bang's SUPA CRASHH fire punch losing it's wallbounce. It's rough but that shit is so annoying, especially when you know daifunka is coming and you have to sit through the entire animation which takes ages. Will be interesting to see how they change things up in subsequent loketests.

Good ol' google translate. Heider * B narrow range. * C increase stiffness? Lolwat. 22b hitbox less generous perhaps, I have no idea about the 'stiffness' part though.

From general, translated by Zephyr07. Noel: 2C>5C gattling added (cannot re-input 2C) j4D is damn fast. As if you can't see her falling from the air. 5D reduced invincibility frames

Although 2d doesn't hit overhead, because of it's property of crossing up on people who are crouching, it essentially serves the same purpose - if your opponent is crouching, he's going to be hit by it (until people learn to block crossup 2d). I would also say that at the moment, since it's so new, it's more difficult to block a crossup 2d than an overhead 2d as well. For example, if I'm pressuring someone with 5a and I see he likes to crouch block I will sometimes go right ahead and 2d for the crossup. Gives him another thing to worry about other than Noel's mediocre high/low game and the occasional throw. Of course, this has it's own risks and downsides, but I think it's worth mentioning.

Hm, since we're talking about Tager, I always wondered about this. As you know if you're knocked down and don't tech, even if you don't press any buttons, you automatically stand up after a period of time. On occasion I'll be in this situation next to a Tager and he'll do a 720, which I, after that period of time, automatically wake up into since 720 super freeze lasts for several frames. I can't roll as if I'm magnetized, as is usually the case, I get dragged back into it. Noel has no reversal other than Fenrir, and I think I would be grabbed out of that too - Fenrir only beats 720 if you execute it first. Jumping is not an option since I'm literally waking up into the 720 (meaty 720 ). I could tech immediately instead, but then you'll be teching right into a normal 720 tech trap, and if I don't, he just delays executing it slightly so it covers the automatic wakeup window and I'm in the above mentioned situation.

On a related note, I consider it the highest praise when, after playing someone for awhile, I go for reset shenanigans and they opt to sit through it and give me a blue beat combo instead of trying to tech. It's like an acknowledgment of, "Alright I don't know how to stop this shit so I'm just going to let you beat on me since it'll probably hurt less in the long run." Makes me feel like Litchi except everywhere is a corner.

Just to clarify, is this from d.5a hit to d.6b? So if I'm understanding correctly you break off the combo and an opponent teching out at the first possible frame would have 1 frame to reversal out before having to block d.6b?

Pretty neat that you can get two mid-drive 5d's in the combo and get away with it too - what with same move proration and all. Guess it prorates really generously.* Also, on a random note, for those 623d 66c links, in some instances you can squeeze out about 100 more damage by doing 623d 66c 236a 66c > continue as per normal. Basically an extra 236a 66c. For the instability it causes, and trouble you go to for executing it, it's not really worth the damage I feel, but it's there nonetheless. *Doh I forgot the 5d after the 66c is a starter 5d.

I've been having some success using chain revolver oki on opponents with 1-2 primers left, really not much they can do to avoid getting guard crushed. Sometimes they are able to air tech backwards though, after d.6b and before d.6c, is there something I'm doing wrong? Proration specific perhaps? Sometimes I just freestyle the combo that leads into it, as long as it ends with a j.d d.6b d.6c

This is true, you can technically get up to high 4k, almost 5k from stuff like 3c without haida loops, if you do some funky stuff like including d.6c (character specific) or the recent use of 4d d.5c from JP vids. For the most part I try and list the highest damaging combo that you would still dare to use in an actual match. That said I used to have an 'extra' combo section with exceptionally situational/difficult combos, perhaps I should put it back. And 4.4k from 3c without 623d 66c? That's interesting, I'd like to see that.

The 2nd 5d counts as a mid drive 5d while the 5d that starts it is a starter 5d, from the perspective of the game they are 'different' moves so same move proration doesn't apply. If you take a look at the frame data page for Noel, they're listed seperately as 5d (starter) and 5d (follow-up). Also a bonus is that if you wanted to combo into Fenrir from that, you can change it up to 5d 6b 5c j.d Fenrir with no wastage of moves. Without the 5d, just doing 6b 5c won't cut it because 6b is too slow and j.d's hitstun won't hold, you would have to omit the 6b and just do j.d 5c j.d Fenrir.

For counterhit 5d CH 5d 6c 6d 2d 623d 66c j.d 5d 5c 6b 236d [4363]

I knew about 4d d.5c++ replacing 6d d.5c d.6b as Noel's drive enders, but I thought it was too unstable and finicky for the reward. Putting it earlier in the combo (like the video demonstrated) seems to make it more stable though, perhaps I should experiment a little.

5d 6a 6c 6a 6c 236d actually does less damage overall than 5d 6a 6c 236d, because of same move proration. Also why 236d after 6c when you can continue the combo with 214a? If you CH 5d you can get 4.4k'ish if you do it right. Bait an id and he loses half his health. If the Ragna likes to do random hell's fangs' to get in range, keeping away and tagging him with 5c as he recovers is an option, it will counterhit and you can go into 5d/3c. If they do the hell's fang followup and you block it, you can punish with CH 5c even on normal block, that move is terrible for Ragna on block - good Ragna's will stop after the first hit which leaves him at something like -4 only. Know what Ragna's high low options are at different points in his blockstring, he has numerous options at any one point and that's one reason his offense is so scary. Typically they end blockstrings with 2d (hits low) and Gauntlet Hades (hits high). 2d nets him more damage if it hits you and it's harder to block on reaction, so block low and guard high on reaction if you see something coming. For jump in j.c, I don't really recommend trying to AA it, j.c's range is ginormous. Instead I slide through with 5d, on hit, go into a drive combo; On block, get out of drive with something like d.5b or 4d. Noel's 5c is good for spacing (though not as good as Ragna's 5b) and fishing for counterhits.

Hm that's interesting. Might explain why sometimes I'm expecting that portrait to start flashing white and it doesn't. I believe my point still stands though, it's terribly easy for Noel to combo into hers.

Noel has hands down the most number of astral setups for a character in the game (grab, j.d, 6d, d.5c, d.6c, 6c, I could go on), and also not a lot she can do with heat. You can say if you had 100% heat and the opponent was below 20%, anything would have killed them, not always true. You will occasionally run into situations where the tail end of your combo brings the opponent below 20% and nothing else other than an astral will kill them because of proration. If I wanted to play 'nice' and not do it, I might not even get to land another combo and it will cost me the match, in this case using that astral is literally the only correct action. So yeah, I will astral you if I have the opportunity to. That's Noel of course, she has so many ways to combo into hers. If it's, for example, a Jin sandbagging the entire match and trying to go for a throw just to combo into his astral, yeah that's really weak. TL;DR Comboing into astral -- fine Purposely going for a throw into astral -- douchey, but fine random astral hoping it will hit -- hey man, it's your funeral

Oh I see, so basically if your combo would have normally stopped short of the corner and ended there, you can use it to push them that extra bit further into the corner to enable Fenrir after 236d? Neat, that's something to know.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean, how does it go into a corner combo, is it a reset of some sort?

I'm not familiar with that setup, was there some vid or discovery that I missed?