Ice Cube

623D corner combo, posted for the heck of it: Knockdown:623D, 6C>(delay)623B, 6C>dc, jump back j.C>jc>j.2C>either 214C or 214D, land 6C>214C (DA 25%=4073, 50%=4654) Damage: 623D, 6C>(delay)623B, 6C>dc>623D, 6C>6D, (623D, 6C>6D,) 5C>jc>j.B j.C j.2C>jc>j.C j.2C (DA 50%=5272, 75%=5932) Also, the 6C>6D, 6B>623B, 6C>6D, 623D, 6C>6D, 5C>jc>j.B j.C j.2C>jc>j.C j.2C combo can be initiated with 2C, 5B(1)>5C, 6B>5C, j.B>5C, 6C CH>dc, or 6C>6D itself. Anything shorter will also work but anything longer (like 5B(2)>5C or j.B>2B>5C) will not work. 6C>623B 6C is an interesting combo filler. Higher damage than 6C>6D, only loses to 6B>623B 6C>6D but seems to prorate less. Will do extensive testing with it sometimes soon. Oh, and Actually spending 25% on front throw for damage is not a good idea imo, except for kill combo (but then you should have done back throw instead) since the proration sucks. Just go for 3C knockdown is the safest option, sometimes going for some freeze resets like 3C>236D on Tager, Hakumen, Arakune and Rachel or 623B 6C>dc>j.C>j.D land, or even gimmick stuff like 6D>6B>6A/6B/6C/throw/whatever can also work.

Clarification: for corner loops, dash before 6B works on everyone except for Lambda, Tsubaki, Haku-men. It all comes down to a matter of preference. Personnally, I find the timing for 6B>623B easier and more consistent if I add in the dash.

Neutral game: Best positions are outside her 5D range (reducing her options to C sickle storm, C spike chaser and 4D, all are very slow), and high above her head (about the only safe air space you have). 236A and j.236A is good. Worst is you trade with 4D but still good. If she is in the air and you are not in her j.2D range, position yourself right under her (cross up if possible) and do 2A. Beats everything. IB 6DD then air dash/air backdash j.236C Dashing in from the ground is better than anything in the air. Once close enough, mixup between 2A, 6B and 2D. If possible, react to her jump with 6C/j.A/air throw and her air backdash with IAD j.2C (don't randomly do these). Dash in, super/double jump over that Spike Chaser, punish. Very difficult but not impossible. Force her to either jump or block, much less threatening than a standing Lambda. 214C beats 5D, sickle storm, spike chaser, all her 236 stuff for knockdown. Lose to 6D, 2D, 6A, 2C. Whiff her low normals. RC for mixup. Even Ren used it. Your choice. The other fullscreen punish is C super. Offense game: 6D is good, outrange all her fastest normals and even score you a CH if she DP. Abuse this shit at max range. Mix with 6B to CH that 3C. Her DP is really bad, bait it whole day Walk back a bit after knockdown with 214C in corner to keep her honest. 2A at this range would whiff her DP. Without meter, Lambda cannot effectively punish 6A (only something like 2k + pushback, no 4k into corner bullshit). Just something to take note of. Defense game: If you want to jump out, always barrier super jump. IB stuff then back dash. Or just keep IB'ing. 214C/D on reaction that Spike Chaser. Safer choice is 236A. Safest is super/double jump, no reward. IAD over that Sickle Storm. Always neutral tech after combo'd. 2A stuffs all her 236 attacks. Close enough, you can technically jump over Spike Chaser and score a CH combo. Go training mode and figure it out. Don't rage burst, especially after DP'd. Burst during her multiple hits normals is your best bet. Notes: Delay 2D after 6C in combos. For corner loop, do 6B without dashing. Block/backdash after throw reject, Her air throw is retarded. Beware of it when you jump.

Sorry for trolling, I was pissed off IRL and then I come here and saw a triple post, two of which are too much troll bait to be ignored ... and it took me quite a while to write those troll post xD You should have stated the source before posting that combo, but then it still doesn't help much since you should have rationally analyzed it before posting. I mean, 6D(non-freeze)>6C !? That guy on the BBS must be trolling. The key to doing the most damaging Jin's corner combos is to do as many 6C>6D as possible, adding fillers such as 6B>623B; 623D; 5C>hjc>j.2C>air 214D (what tetsu did) in between. After testing, the combo I posted above did 6503 after ice arrow and 6700 in total (tetsu's did 6508, I tried adding 6C>623C and it did 6638). @ smooshman: I was referring to doing TK 236B/C for pressure reset.

When done at about 2A's max range, the reaction time is so small, it's as good as a non-escapable blockstring. When done a bit further away (5B's max range), ways to avoid I can think of are DPs (which will whiff -> easy punish, can even punish Litchi's with 2D), Noel's D attacks and 2C (whiff but cannot punish, can continue pressure afterwards), Arakune's 2C (serious trouble here, but there's a slim chance to block it?), Taokaka's crawling (damn), Carl's Vivace (goddamn), Tager's backdash (not really reliable) and Sledge (ZOMG). Jumping/crouching/backdash here won't help. Even if it's a bit predictable, it's still safe pressure reset when used against character with no effective way to punish it. And no, at 5C's max range I do 2D instead. Also, just realized that Sledge beat all of Jin pressure reset options except for 6B. This combo is so ridiculously impossible in so many ways, it's quite interesting to list out the errors The obvious impossible parts are in bold. No no no, D normals can only freeze the first time in combos. And the 125% heat condition. The non-obvious impossible parts are underlined. The proration point of this combo is so ridiculously high, D DP, 6C will not connect. (seriously, go read the combo thread or something) There is one more impossible part I haven't mentioned. Anyone bored enough to point it out? Best damage & LEGIT combo I can think of: 6C>6D, 6B>623B, 6C>6D, 623D, 6C>6D, 623D, 6C>6D, ice arrow, 6C>623C (something like 6600~6700) And they have a very good reason not to. 2C>623B>623A do less damage than 6C>214C Best way to score extra damage after air combo>214D is to spend heat on either 6C>dc>5C>623D or 6C>ice arrow, 6C>623C. If you don't have heat, then don't even bother trying. Or sometimes just 6C>dc>air (purple) throw>236C SELECTIVELY (against scrub/people with CT habit of buffering Throw Reject). Trust me, this is so obvious, I always got Throw Reject Miss whenever I do it . The most important part here is SELECTIVELY.

How about doing both of them 6C(CH)>dc, small dash, 6C>2D, 6B>sekkajin, either 6C>214C (DA=3999) or 6C>214D, 6C>214C (DA=4572) or 6C>ice arrow, 214C (DA=5055) Not terribly reliable, not so easy to hitconfirm, but should be the best damage possible. If the first 6C was an air hit, do air combo after second 6C instead. In corner, just do 25% heat corner loop for sweet 5100 damage w knockdown or 5700 damage w/o knockdown. I have been testing using TK 236B/C, as a way to reset pressure and it works quite well so far. I can do 2D/5C/dash 5B after landing. TK 236C also works for me as a safe tool to throw out to cover my approach (especially against Lambda) or to stop people charging at me (Tager's 2D, Hazama's chain, and general running). Can someone else test these ideas?

What element of surprise are you talking about? Since the usual combo filler after 2D is 6B (which is highly telegraphed), it's quite obvious that you are aiming for a reset if you just run straight at them. More so if you air dash/jump at them. A backdash/DP/well timed 2A is more than enough to prevent all of Jin's reset options. And we shall always keep in mind that Jin's mixup sucks. And why would any competent player in their right mind be mashing A while frozen . Or do you mean that most player are incompetent enough, they don't know that they cannot tech out of ice or they think that freeze = stagger? Fact: Freeze = hitstun and IT AUTO UNFREEZE!!! And when they don't mash A, THEY BLOCK. Only scrubs do nothing. Attempting a reset after j.D is different since both characters are falling down and Jin usually stick quite close to opponent after j.D, it looks quite ambiguous. The reward is much higher, and you also have valid mixup options (both 6A and 3C will hit after unfreeze). Verdict is that this is more of a gimmick than a solid reset option. It has it uses, but use it sparingly. IMO, doesn't really worth it. (and I never managed to run under opponent after 2D. Maybe cause I always delay 2D for solid damage + pushback and I don't risk eating backdash+GETB ) Might as well post some throw combos: Midscreen: Back throw>214A(whiff), 5C>6C>dc, either j.C jc j.2C 214C or j.C j.2C jc j.2C 214D, land 6C>214C Front throw(3 hit)>214A(whiff), 5B>2B>5C>3C>214C (works on Tager, Taokaka, Arakune, Rachel) Front throw(2 hit)>sekkajin, 6C>2D, either 6C>214C or 6B>214D, 6C>214C (maybe character specific) Corner: Back throw>214A(whiff), 5C>6C>6D, 623D, either 6C>214C (knockdown) or 6C>6D, 5C jc j.B j.C j.2C jc j.C j.2C (damage) Front throw(2hit)>623B, 6C>6D, either 6C>214C or (small delay) 6C>dc, j.C 214D, land 6C>214C. Note: for back throw combos, must connect 5C while opponent is still airborne. 5 frame buffering helps. To mods: can we have threads for matchup discussions now? Or are we supposed to create them ourselves?

Those combos are meant to be round finisher and/or those times of frustration when you forget to hit confirm 5B>3C but instead do 5B>5C then don't want to follow up with 3C>214B for some lousy 1750 damage and lose momentum anyway. 1200 extra damage is well worth the 25% meter spent. Anyway, I think someone asked earlier in the thread for follow up after 2C(FC) on airborne opponent: Corner only: 2C(FC)>6C>(delay)6D>corner loop (DA=5233, 25%, no knockdown). Skip the first 6C if too close to corner, else 6D won't connect. Anywhere on screen: 2C(FC)>6D, dash 6B>5C>6C>dc>2C>6C>dc, j.C j.2C>jc>j.2C 214D, land 6C>214C (DA=4384, 25%, knockdown). Add a 6C before 6D and change dash 6B to dash 6D in corner for DA=4650. In rare cases where the opponent is too far for 6D to connect, change to j.D and skip 6B for DA=3815.

After trying to figure out how to improve Jin's pathetic damage with midscreen 5B>5C on standing opponent by using meter: 5B(2 hits)>5C>3C>236D xx 6C>dc>5C>hjc>j.B j.C j.2C>jc>j.C j.2C (DA = 2971, 25% meter) (works on Rachel, Haku-men, Tager. Skip the 5C then it also works on Ragna and Arakune, DA = 2909) 5B(2 hits)>5C>623B>ice arrow, super jump, 214C (DA = 3389, 50% meter, knockdown) Since you can 3C>214C knockdown Rachel, Tager and Arakune (and have much better options after that) your best bet of landing the first combo is on Haku-men. But then, since it reminds me so much of Ky Kiske's 2D>Earth and May's 2D/2HS>FB dolphin, might as well use it as much as I can. If only ASW would improve 236D's proration, speed and htibox in the next BlazBlue so that we can deal easy damage off random hits (like Ragna). (maybe I should just learn how to hitconfirm 5B>3C ) (Just realized that I should have posted this in the gameplay thread. Sorry.)

A bit of improvement (for that FC combo) 2C(FC)>6C>(delay)2D>dash 6B>5C>6C>dc>2C>6C>dc>j.C j.2C>jc>j.2C>214D>land 6C>214C Delay to push the opponent further towards corner. (or maybe just a bit. There are 3 6C in this combo to do this job after all). 2C instead of 5C because it does 50 more damage, it only works in FC combo, and is much slower, making the opponent float lower -> extra j.2C possible. Note that 214D weird hitbox sometimes slash the opponent to the opposite side if done midscreen (perfectly fine if done in corner though). Haku-men is one example, need more experiments. Skip the extra j.2C if this happens. EDIT: After experiments, conclusion is that you just need to delay every hit of your air combo (or just the last j.2C) for 214D to connect properly. Delay just a slight bit or else it will blue beat. Another conclusion is that this combo works EVERYWHERE on screen (tried punishing Inferno Divider in left corner, still managed to push Ragna to the right corner and do 6C>214C).

CH 6B into corner loop (see combo thread) does 5577 damage with 25% heat but gain more heat, can set up into purple throw, have option to throw ice swords (air 236C xx air 236B/D) at opponent to keep him in corner if he neutral/back tech (just saying. The only Japanese player doing corner loop is Dennou anyway) (glad that discussion has not derailed into how some Taiwanese? player screwed up ice arrow. BlazBlue General is )

On the matter of midscreen 5C (CH or crouch) I usually do: 5C>6C dc (small dash) 5C>6C dc jump j.C j.2C jc j.2C j.D 214D land 6C>214C The first part pushes the opponent a huge deal so you usually put them into corner by the end. Also do 400 extra damage compared to the sekkajin combo at the cost of 25% meter. But if you are too far from the other corner then don't bother doing this.

Hirensou combo (or 6C>6D loop) (or Jin's corner loop): (demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jIkLmiNr0U#t=4m41s (the dennou vs matsu match everyone is talking about)) (Note: AC means 5C hjc j.B j.C j.2C jc j.C j.2C) Must be done in corner with 25%: 6C>6D xx 6B>623B xx 6C>6D xx 623D xx 6C>6D xx AC (DA = 5497, 5356 w/o 6B, 5229 w/o first 6C) 5C (CH or crouch) >6C>6D xx 6B>623B xx 6C>6D xx 623D xx 6C>6D xx AC (DA = 4773, 4665 w/o 6B) 623B xx 6C>6D xx 6C>6D xx 623D xx 6C>6D xx AC (DA = 3938) 5B>5C>623B xx 6C>6D xx 6C xx 623D xx 6C>6D xx AC (DA = 4091) 5D>dc>623B xx 6C>6D xx 623D xx 6C>6D xx AC (DA = 4503) (tight timing on 623B, add a 5C if you cannot do it) (5D can do damage on normal hit ) Double Hirensou combo (must be done in corner with 50%) 6C>6D xx 6B>623B xx 6C>6D xx (623D xx 6C>6D)x2 xx AC (DA = 6104, 6016 w/o 6B, 5903 w/o first 6C) Triple Hirensou combo (lol) (623D xx 6C>6D)x3 xx AC (DA = 5643) (All combo tested and fully worked) (Note: for 6B>623B, delay the 623B or air 236B will come out, and hold B for easier timing) Now people cannot call Jin players scrubs anymore .

fixed for more damage with less meter Ok, was that a serious question? 5C and 2C have the same attack level (if you don't get it, it means they hitstun the same amount) so change it to 2C push your opponent further from you and ... that's it, fix nothing (oh yeah, do more damage, if you can get it to work with the added distance, even in CT). Problem with old 5C>j.B is that j.B's hitbox is not as low as before, so now it only works against a certain red, HUGE mecha. So if you've ever seen j.C and know that its hit box is as thin as a thread, and know that jump has 4 frame startup, you know what I mean.

you can only roll or "flash white" (and no, in CS "flashing white" is only throw invincible) if you're in knockdown state... and hitstun IS NOT RELATED TO knockdown, neither is freeze. But I think I managed to get what you think: freeze does not knockdown, so your opponent is in standing state after freeze (no rolling/"flash white"), and freeze means HUGE hitstun so you can run up and do whatever if you end your combo with j.D or whatever. and in CT, 5c>j.b nets you extra damage so if you never find the need to do it, ... Anyway, to shtkn: 1) Since 2C fatal counter, why don't you try (on a reversal happy Ragna preferably): 2C(CH)>6C>2D>6Bxx5C>6C>dash cancel>5C>sjc>j.B>j.C>jc>j.2C>214C if the 6B doesn't work, just replace it with normal dash. 2) Does 6C>dash cancel>j.B still combo?? or maybe 6C>dash cancel>j.C? cos you know, shorter combo (omitted 5C) means easier knockdown in this game, so this might be important. 3) I have seen j.2C combo into 214C on youtube before (in a Jin Vs Litchi one). Can you try: 5C>6C>dash cancel>5C>sjc>(j.B?)>j.C>jc>j.2C>214C and (maybe falling j.C (CH))>2D>dash>6C>dash cancel>5C>sjc>(j.B?)>j.C>jc>j.2C>214C 4) If 2C does not CH a blocked inferno divider, can you test which is the most damaging way to begin your punish: with 5B (2hit) CH, 5B (1hit) CH or 5C CH into 6c?

Some stuff I noticed after my first play of BBCS: - 6D and DPs does not fatal counter. 2C does. - IMO, ending your non-sekkajin ground BnB with 3C>214B at least gives you anti-air/air throw/poke with j.C options at lower combo damage, whereas ending it with just 214B means you either backdash or IABD (it leaves your opponent standing out of 2A/5B's range, and my 5C seems to get easily countered) - 214B doesn't feel like it gives neutral/frame advantage as stated in the changes thread. It seems to guard break, and since all guard break moves seems to be punishable during startup (like 6D) or recovery (like 623C) or spend heat, 214B shouldn't be +frame anyway. - Air 236D no longer have one billion advantage frame, except for maybe TK 236D? (or maybe I just couldn't get the correct timing to link air 236D's landing recovery to a ground dash). Anyway the landing recovery feels the same as CT Air 236A/B/C. - 623B links to 6C. I might have seen this on youtube already. - Throw>ice arrow>air 214C works (forgot the dmg). The changes thread says that super damage is not affected by prorate, so dmg should be pretty high, and knockdown as well. - In corner, if you can finish your air combo with 214D, where as in CT it used to be land>2C>623B>623A (or 2C>air throw for pressure), I managed to do land>6C>214C for knockdown all the time (probably the window between 6C and 214C shrunked due to floating 214C?) - 214C GOES OVER Lambda's 5D, sweet CH. I lol'ed pretty hard. Maybe this means that it goes over some other stuff as well? Maybe even Ragna's 5B (wishful thinking). Anyway different trajectory of 214C and 214B as well as their guard crush ability may generate more ice car spammers? - 214C also goes over some character's crouching motion. 5B>2B>214C maybe a good way to escape corner/reset position? (until they react to ice car as an overhead, but then 6A is meh so I doubt they will) - 623A at beginning of round BEAT HAKUMEN'S 4B, no longer hit blocking Tager (needs confirm). - 6B feels faster, so 6C>6B in blockstring may be more safe. 2D also feels faster and seems like a solid poke.