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Well Isuyaru commented in IRC about possible counters I haven't tested. I'll copy/paste his comments: And a possible alternate way to end the setup: Oh and word? MTW gets beat out by another DP after clash? Wow lol.

Okay so I was testing that 4D 5D 214D setup again and it's actually really good against Tager. Yes, he can A sledge through it but you can actually do a really subtle dash 2B 623C to eliminate the A sledge and also a lot of his options. In about half an hour of testing the only way out of this setup mid-screen is to time a backward roll tech at a very specific time after the explosions go off. If Tager times the backroll incorrectly he eats the explosion. Even if he blocks he loses guard primer. The dash in 2B will eliminate his A/B sledge options and you can hit confirm this to deal more damage with a combo. His other option is to burn meter on a Magna-Tech Wheel. What this means is that mid-screen this setup is really effective if Tager doesn't have meter. I tried having Tager do wake-up 720's /360's/normal grabs but all attempts failed. Tager can try to do a timed neutral tech into 360 grab after the explosions goes off and IT WILL CONNECT if you don't time 2B 623C correctly. If you do the dash in 2B correctly you'll be too far for him to grab anyway and the explosions will hit. Emergency Rise / Quick Rise / Forward Roll/ Back Roll teching all result in him getting hit by explosions. Hopefully this is actually useful. The important thing about this is that after 2B you see what Tager does and change it up depending on how he techs. I might be missing something about Tager. I mean he can also burst or something but that's standard stuff. Or maybe there are better things to do mid-screen anyway and I just wasted my time lol. The damage isn't very good but you score another knockdown etc. Maybe I'll just make a vid to explain this to make it easier. EDIT: Here is a vid. All done in one take lol. Complete with annotations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiVfNg-mBLA

5D 4D stein setup on wakeup is pretty good against Tager's large hitbox. Most of the time I see opponents forced to block the explosions and sometimes I get away with breaking 5 primers via fully charged sword.

Yeah fought a couple and the key was to respect Makoto when she has meter. Otherwise go apeshit with zoning and bait those dps all day.

Haha Jan so clutch. Well that was intense.

Pozer for qualifiers.

online is for trolling and losing to Nu (or to learn very general match-ups)

If you are too low after doing the jc to 2d it means your j.c at the beginning of the combo was too early. I find even that needs slight delay.

Yeah just like p-links etc. It's all muscle memory in the end.

What's funny is that online, if I do it normally without thinking about that slight delay, I seem to land it more often (lol online).

Don't worry Axis. He doesn't know the real Rachel match-up because he plays my Rachel a lot

Feels the same.

It works. The timing is just strict. Important points are to delay the j.c a bit and to wait a bit on j.2c after 2d.

I guess it's all about going to the lab (training) and finding every little quirk in match-ups to help you win!