-Ladon-

less random IDs, it's not the answer for throwing out unsafe moves considering it puts you in a worse position. don't end blockstrings with tsuika, if you HAVE to use HF, just end at HF, you're a lot more safe after HF than tsuika. stop using 236C as your combo ender, 214C puts them on the ground and if they tech roll your falling jC will hit them. 6B-5C-6C combos are a lot of damage for the risk you're putting in using 6B, learn how to maximize your damage from it. other than that you need to learn your safer variations of blockstrings, ending with spikes, jump cancelable normals, and maximizing your damage in certain situations, like counterhit IDs, or how to play 22c oki.

it's really just learning the timing of when ragna's considered out of 22c and buffering in the dash-4/5b, the frame window is tight without fatals, I can't really think of anything as tight in ragna's strings, so it'll probably be pretty hard to get used to if you haven't played a character with very tight/unforgiving strings.

the topic was on POKING with it, in which ragna is not safe POKING with it. IAD, guardpoints, and IB can catch it trying to use it at max range. -8 ON BLOCK is not a reliable way to poke at all. The gatlings are awful for poking and in truth can put you in a worse position than trying to poke with it. what mixup? the most you can do is 2C to cover yourself from getting punished, going any deeper after 5c is never safe. Oh i forgot, you could always do a meterless GH or 2D and hope they're not blocking right, what a crazy mixup but hey, get all defensive about a character you clearly lack knowledge about and try to make it sound like you all of a sudden know his whole game plan, it's not like you're telling us to do anything silly though, like ID after a 5c poke. oh god I just noticed "the base of ragna's gatlings" HAHAHAHAHA

it's like you don't read

this is to fix any kind of issue with 6B coming out.

the discussion was started when people(a certain bang) questioned why 5C wasn't safe when it can be canceled then it was about blockstrings and why 5C isn't reliably canceled the point is moot anyway, majority of the time 5b-5c-hf combo will put you at the position you started so even though it does a decent amount of damage, it still keeps people out of ragna's big damage range, specifically 3C range.

CS numbers are out? where is this frame data

considering you're taking followups into account, IB an HF, GH doesn't even need to be mentioned considering how many ways you can punish it, and I don't even wanna go near a "delayed ID" after 5C. what's unsafe is unsafe, whether you're punishing it or not is up to your playing ragna isn't gaining ground after 5C pokes even if you can't punish it, so what are you worried about? he has very limited options from 5b-5c range and only one of them involve getting in safe -if he has meter-. I'm not questioning your ability to punish someone, and I'm pretty sure no one is going to flawlessly punish something unsafe 100% of the time, but the numbers are there, and what's not safe is not safe. we're talking about 5C poke range into HF, not 2C range. about 2D: if we're talking about punishment on reaction, 2D is probably the biggest example. I honestly don't know how 2D became such a great poke from CT when NOTHING CHANGED. As much as I hate to use it as an example, even online you could block and punish 2Ds with shitty lag, and it's startup time is god awful as well.

you could just poke with 5B and not cancel it, which is safer. nothing makes 5C completely safe after it's out there unless(like I said) you do a close 2C, in which case you're not poking with it. case in point: 5C isn't safe, why are people talking like it is

nothing you said is a safe option, but ok

5B-HF-RC-6D pressure game is much better, you can whiff the j.d to cause a mixup, hit with j.d and do a quick 5/2A-5B-low/mid mixup options, there's no reason to waste 50% meter on a poke that doesn't let you gain any ground or setup into other options, ragna needs to be inside at all times otherwise he has no pressure except safe 5B pokes. nobody considers life steal a factor because while it's happening in the fight, if you haven't been hit yet, you can't go over a 10k hp cap that you have, so life steal is negated, that's why I've always said ragna has an average of about 11k as long as he's doing long combos with 4-5 D hits, and BK really doesn't net more health anymore unless you do a fatal BK loop, in which case you gain maybe 1k back. when was 5C "safe" to poke with? it's horrible on recovery, and it's cancels are even worse options barring a close 2C for +1 on block. Jin's ice car combos at least net him a solid knockdown and not a half screen knockback that you have to rezone into. I don't know where 5C was suddenly safe considering it's gatlings on block are very limited and not safe.

2D's recovery is still terrible, and easily punishable by a majority of the cast, using 50% meter just to make it safe on a single poke is a waste HF-follow up is not ideal for a large amount of the cast when you're trying to get -in- on them, not push them farther back, getting a 2k punish on a long poke is good, putting them in a spot where they're at an advantage is not. Most characters(bang/litchi/jin to name a few) don't have a zoning problem post combos, whereas ragna without meter is forced to put them back in a position where he can only gain 2k from. but I digress, ragna would be the best character if every poke ever lead to the crazyness that is 22c oki, but you have to remember he isn't getting meter or good oki from range unless HF actually forces them into the corner and you're close enough to followup. not to mention he still has no way to punish a roll out of the corner other than predicting it, losing any kind of oki very easily.

3.5k -on average- -from a close hit- he isn't going to just be breaking out 3k when you're at range in the beginning of the match, and even rapiding only nets 3.5k from range

realistically, ragna's average is better than CT but not litchi or bang level. no, you really don't have a long range punish unless you rapid or carnage, and 2D is not safe or comboable unless they're crouching. he nailed it pretty well, ragna's larger combos are from fatals, his realistic damage from non-fatal averages at 3-3.5k depending on range.

tbh most of the 22c combos can be replaced with 5a instead of 5b on some characters for forgiveness sake and then it becomes less dependent on timing, although I don't know what his frame data is 5a is definitely at least a couple frames of extra forgiveness. I just never thought the stagger time was as amazing as this video shows, it could be very well possible to do 7-8k corner combos.

Yeah in all honesty I would've had more 22c looping in my video but since I was learning stick and teaching someone how to pull off certain combos it really limited the ability, but I wouldn't have imagined anything near what MSY was able to pull off

man that video shocked me, I knew 22c's new stagger time was pretty rediculous, but that was outright insane

loses Air unblockable properties when performed in the air, yes

Special cancelable move is cancelable. off the forward throw the best I could come up with in CS is GH-KA(delay)-5C-loop-BE-6D-j.D-jc-j.C-BE-5D-623D 60% heat off forward throw is pretty sexy

1 Hit only lands if they're at a certain range above you, using a setup that ends in GH in the corner can cause them to tech, then you throw a long range air unblockable at them(in this case 623D) and rapid it to make sure it's safe kinda a gimmicky strategy but the combo's there to follow up on it

DS cancel your 5Ds more, I think you dashed out all of the times it was blocked, which is the worst option imho. needs less 5b-5c-5d and more 5b-6a-5c-5d(1) combos up close, keep in mind that this is also safe as well as netting more damage on confirm. canceling your 5D(1) into ds/gh is always a solid option, just don't make it too predictable. there's rare occasions where you really want to use CS as a damage option(pretty much 5b-5c-CS is one of the only times you want to be landing it so you can combo after) so keep your heat in storage for rapids and possible BK setups post-burst. abuse 22c a little more, I didn't see a lot of KD opportunities but if you get them make sure you play the oki off it

if you're canceling shishin as you 3C, no, you will be safe on neutral tech. I was pretty sure if they ID 13O still catches them after their invlun frames? or are you talking about IB-ID?

shishin is in active frames (ie if you see the ragna getting hit or blocking)

block, wait until shishin is active(hitting them or being blocked) then go from there