LM_Akira

Thank god. I thought some it was some random guy lol Great matches WUT, you were literally pulling off all the AC specific HOS stuff with relative ease, very enjoyable games to watch.

Is Ryan Bill WUT on the forums?

If you'd only been playing A.B.A. since AC, what was all the talk on NE about using/learning her in Slash then? (months before AC was released on console) http://www.neoempire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=848 Anyway that has nothing to do with this discussion like I said. No, you didn't demand a guide to be made, I never implied you did, however you did reply with the attitude "none of you will make a guide for my friend? That sucks!" that kinda speaks for itself. Besides, quoting me back after already addressing what was said earlier makes no sense. What difference does it make if you've played the game or not? Lots. You're taking the attitude of "I'm a noob, I know nothing, make me a guide to learn this character". If you've gotten experience under your belt you can start asking more sensible stuff like "when is best to use fast note, what kinda of mixups should I be doing?" etc instead of saying "I'm a noob what is note? Teach me everything..." Surely you saw BulletProof's recent post on NE about people being so lazy these days they just want instant guides/faqs/frames before learning a new game instead of just playing the actual damn game? As someone who tries to contribute to the general community with guides (being as small or big as they are) it annoys me to see people so lazy that they need to be told EVERYTHING they should/shouldn't be doing before they're even familar with a game/character.

But the main thing is, you already know and play with 2 highly experienced I-No players already, why would you request that someone online make an I-No guide (not even for you, for someone else) when in fact you have resources at hand already. Why would you ask Moroha to make an A.B.A. guide when you already played as A.B.A. in Slash, there was already a Slash A.B.A. guide written online AND you know that Ryza has been using A.B.A. since the console release of Slash??? Nevermind don't answer here it's just going off topic. At the end of the day, you can't really assume that someone online is going to go to the effort of writing some full on uber 101 character guide based on just 1 request, assumption is the mother of all fuck ups

Well for a start you're really asking in the wrong thread anyway, this thread is ideally in place to list/discuss combos, asking for guides to be written should be brought up in the AC thoughts/discussion thread here. Frame data is also available directly in one of the general forums (I posted links on neo empire) you don't need a guide made to give you it. Anyone who wants an all purpose guide written about I-No should just read through the general threads here and watch a few vids for a start. I doubt many people realise the time and effort that writing guides and such takes, you can't really click your fingers and have someone magic up something for you. People should get stuck into playing the game to some extent before reverting to guides detailing everything you should/shouldn't be doing. Any specific questions you could always ask Zakuta or Ryza anyway. Perhaps a "newbie I-No questions" thread might be better at first. General AC I-No threads: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2304 http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2938 Plenty of good stuff to read thru there. Frame Data: http://www.dustloop.com/data/ac/ino.html How to do HCL FRC airdash: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1162 Old Slash stuff to have a read thru: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1396 It's all there if you look.

Not a complete strategy guide but some basic discussion and some things I've learnt from experience/testing: Vs. Venom The Venom fight is always going to be frustrating for Order-Sol. If you're playing a defensive style Venom you may have to be very patient before you can get in to score damage as Venom can quite easily sit on the other side of the screen, set balls and hit them all day long. If you're good at predicting the ball's trajectories you can do funky things like nullify them with 6P, sweep under them, SB and so on but this isn't going to help you mount an offense. Don't ever bother using 6P against electric balls however. Venom can throw out 5S(f) and 2S to stop you simply running him down. Don't try to blindly rush in, you need to make sensible choices in order to get close. Stinger Aim and Carcass Ride, coupled with ball setups and other normals used to hit the balls combine to make it especially hard to close the gap at times. You can, however, land a j.HS CH from IAD pretty easily if Venom is mindlessly setting balls on the other side of the screen and not paying attention. Venom's 6P and to a lesser extent 6HS serve as good anti air for him now if you predictively try to jump into him. You generally need to be creative in order to land a jump-in from open play. NEVER GUN BLAZE TO GET IN! (This holds true normally anyway) A missed GB can result in easy knockdown for Venom. A good Venom can actually kill you from 1 knockdown (see later). Venom's 2D is pretty awesome now but if your opponent is over-using it try to bait it with djs. It beats things like Lv1 RI and Lv1 GB, however, if you baited the 2D, Lv1 RI can in fact be used to punish it, as well as Fafnir amongst other things. If Venom is in range for 2K, he can do 2K, 2D, K ball setup and hit the ball as a meaty oki option with j.K. He can then either jump in and go high (...) or low (2K) or jump over you and go high (backwards airdash j.HS ...) or low (2K) and reset the whole knockdown option from there (2K, 5S©, 5HS K dubious curve or 2K, 2D, K dubious curve or backwards airdash j.HS, 5S©, 5HS, DC or whatever, something similar). Something to bare in mind as Venom can almost kill you from 1 knockdown if you don't watch closely for the mixup. Reversal Lv1 SV and Lv1 TR are you friends against this oki setup, otherwise you have to block the ball then watch for the near instant follow-up. If Venom is using strings which end in 5HS, dubious curve on block, you can use reversal Lv1 TR or Lv1 SV against it. You can be pinned down by this block string quite easily (DC is level 5) when there is no need to be. Using FD is also another option, as well as backdash and Slashback (GB is possible but risky). 5HS, DC on hit is probably near impossible to stagger out of in reality so you'll usually end up taking the hit and sliding knockdown (and getting a damn electric ball setup coming your way). Venom can also throw out Dark Angel after hitting you with the stagger from 5HS and the whole thing will pretty much combo. The mind game changes slightly if the Venom you're playing against likes to FRC the DC at the end of a block string because he can then punish a whiffed reversal SV if you don't AC FRC it for example. Venom's j.HS has a good hitbox to it, good for jumping in and also for meeting moves in the air, i.e. it can be used to punish predictable airdashes / jumping attacks. If Venom is using it too much as a jump in Lv1 GB works well as anti air against it. If you can react quickly enough to it you can beat it with j.P (same goes for Venom's j.S). In the corner watch for Venom's Dust attack as he'll get a free knockdown and continued oki pressure from it. He can even get a ball setup from it (electric DC). Lv1 BHB AC on the other side of the screen from Venom can actually be punished by a HS Stinger Aim. Whiffing any laggy special against Venom (e.g. Lv1 SV AC without FRC) can be punished by a dash in sweep or gatling into sweep back into oki pressure. Mad struggle and FB Mad Struggle are overheads! Don't ever both DAAing against them as they have multiple hits! You can GB under Dark Angel if you time it well but a better option is probably to hj over it or hj.IAD over it. Blocking it on the ground gives Venom a free mixup (he can hide behind it and go low or overhead). Air blocking it with FD is another option but its best to avoid blocking it completely if possible. Since he has no DP-style move on wakeup, occasionally you can throw in a fuzzy guard mixup fairly safely.

Thrown out of BRP at startup? I didn't know that could happen. HOS is airborne after 8th (Lv1) 7th (Lv2) and 6th (Lv3) frames of BRP and has feet inv before but I guess technically he is still throw-able. Then again, you shouldn't be using BRP if you're that close to your opponent that they can throw you. If you're using it by itslef, Lv1 BRP needs to be spaced so that even if it's blocked (you're at -1 and can be thrown if you land right next to them) you're still out of throw range.

Generally any character with range better than HOS is going to give you trouble whe you first start playing against them. Realistically HOS only has a handful of moves he can use at mid-range (5S(f), 5HS, Fafnir, Lv2 SF, Lv2/3 BRP spring to mind) so you'll want to look at attacking thru gaps in Johnny's offence in order to close him down and get into him. Be wary of the low Lv2 K Mist Finer as that's a free combo for Johnny on hit. TK Ensenga (RC) airdash into combo is another to watch for as it can work from a suprisingly long way out. He has no DP style move apart from his super but his 6P is good for AA. You need to mixup your approach to him (ground and air) because it can be too easy for him to swat you away like a fly if you telegraph your intentions. If your Johnny opponent is good a landing 1-hit Ensengas, be mindful of throws, tick throws, wavedash into throw etc I will try to post something a little more helpful shortly.

I'm not really sure how you'd use 5S(f) to deal with Sol's sweep, my best advice would be to try and bait the sweep and then punish it in recovery. That's what I try to do against Venom's sweep too. If he sticks it out when you run in, try low double jumping right over him or something like that. What problems are you have when Sol corners you? GF and 6HS spam? That really used to give me problems in Slash because of HOS's low jump and because 6HS has a really high hitbox on it. One option is to actually hj.IAD out of the corner at the right time. Another is riskier but going for 2S (CH), 6HS just to get some breathing space (GF is in CH state for a long time into recovery). Fafnir is good here becuase of it's lower body inv and Lv2/3 BRP might get you out of the tight spot. If he comes in with a Bandit Bringer in the corner, Lv1 GB on CH will give you a nice half bar combo. Lv1 TR is a futher option. Just really depends on what he's doing to you in the corner. What kind of 2S frame traps is he using? I have a write-up of the matchup against Venom but I'm still working on it. I've also been playing Jam and Johnny quite a bit more these days so I should have something to add about them soon.

You're not going to get "high damage + knockdown" with those combos finishing in Lv2 BRP after starting with a Lv3 BRP as the opponent can tech long before they reach the ground. Lv2 BRP only gives knockdown very close to the ground. You might do something funky and end with 6HS but other than that Hatred Edge and reaver have posted arguably the most useful/basic combos to rely on. Also Hatred Edge I'll reply to your question about the vid a little later on... EDIT Ok, believe it or not, the editing software I have for my capture tool doesn't have a speed setting on it. To get one I would need to register the product online and pay for additional content to be added. I don't really want to do that because I only need the basics of the software anyway and also because the main site is American and I have no way of paying for stuff online besides paypal and paypal doesn't work for this service apparently. So I can't do slow motion replays right now. However, after some experimentation last night, I can zoom and pan, so it's feasible for me to do something like: Do combo Repeat combo with commands on Inter-cut repeated combo with closeups of the commands as they are performed I could do that for things like hj.IAD and ID if people have problems doing them but I can't do slow motion replays without buying new software. Let's see what I can come up with.

Experimenting is the key, nothing more to it than that. Go into training mode, pick Ky and do the combo. Delay the dj just slightly. It is impossible to do 5D into j.HS x2 without going into homing jump. As has been discussed on the last few pages you will ALWAYS go into homing jump j.HS after 5D, the trick is to dj after the homing jump in order to cancel the homing jump and land. EDIT: I'm going to overhaul and tidy up the 1st post shortly. I will also start making Part 4 of the vid collection. Things I'm aiming to cover in it are: hj.IAD (the general technique since it's applicable in lots of combos) Using Fafnir j.HS (CH) Combos Corner Throw / 6P Combos Dealing with projectiles (e.g. using 6P to nullify them, 2D under them etc) Rock It Combos Lv3 BRP Combos [using Dust/Impossible Dust] > if there is space If anyone has any suggestions to make or comments to add please do.

I'm almost certain that using 2 j.HSs after doing Impossible Dust works on every character but I will test it at some point to confirm. With the corner throw business, bear in mind there is more written about in the 1st post. You basically have 2 options, hold forward and press 5S© or dash in after the throw has recovered and do 5S©. Note some chars NEED the 5S© there in order to be combo'd (e.g. Eddie, Ky) and some others don't, it just helps (e.g. Dizzy, Slayer).

It is explained on the very first page: Basically you need to do a homing jump after hitting your opponent with 5D (hold 8 or 9) hit your opponent within 29 frames before the dust screen comes on then cancel the homing jump with another action (dj or FD etc...). Then your opponent will be caught in a long un-techable state that you can take advantage of (i.e. you can generally land a better combo).

As mentioned before it's not easy to land at first, the gap between getting a black beat combo or missing it entirely and actually landing the proper combo is pretty slim, it just takes a lot of practice. It's not going to happen overnight. I still mess it up more than I should but I don't really have the time to practice it to perfection. You need to get a feel for the actual motion you're supposed to be doing, so, just practice this: j.HS (CH) [5S©] or [2S], 5HS hj.IAD j.P, j.HS, Lv1 SV over and over... Get a feel for linking j.P from a normal IAD after 5HS on the ground too...you can do gatlings into 5HS IAD j.P into another gatling. The concept is identical, only in the combo above you need to hj.IAD to link the j.P into an aircombo. Watch match vids where it's used to try and note the position the opponent is in when they get hit by the 5HS and by the j.P. The hj.IAD j.P is like 1 fluid motion, that's as best as I can describe it. IAD j.P might hit in certain circumstances in a combo after 5HS but j.HS or any followup move probably won't (j.K might I don't know). That's why you need to hj.IAD (there is a difference, the difference is the height at which you get up to and the possible followup you can get).

Hatred Edge check my post again, I edited it to add that I find dropping the 2S in the gatling makes it easier. So I use something like 5K, 5S©, Lv2 RI and reaver posted something like 5S©, 2S, 5HS, Lv2 RI My personal input is to go for 296 after the 5HS, imagine doing a normal IAD but high jumping it so you stick a downwards direction in there before hand. It's not the same as high jump airdash, the motion of HOS should be almost like a banana in the air after the 5HS lol it's really quick and his trajectory goes into an air dash very quickly. Only thing you may need to change in the combo is the second air hit (j.K, j.S, j.HS) into SV.

HolBadSanta, in future it'd help if you explained what you meant in the first place instead of saying the equivalent of "do this combo:" 2K, 2S, 2D (CC) Fafnir dash 2S, 5HS yada yada.... oh btw the first part doesn't hit it's blocked, Fafnir just hits normally... Anyway that's discussion for the general thread, like I said, 6K discussion has gone on there (you also seem to be assuming you will always have Lv2 or Lv3 to follow up for 6K which obviously in't the case). Iruel: Did you miss the first post? Because my idea with that was to update all the useful combos from the thread into it for easy access combos. Problem now is, the post is so long I'll need to cut out the waffle before I can add new combos becasue it won't let you have a post that's over a certain amount of characters long.

blackstar14: I'd recommend just sticking with the standard Lv1 GB combo, don't bother too much with using 5S©, 5HS, stick to the main combo as it's stable, i.e. it works on everyone. Using 5S©, 5HS on some chars requires exact distance and timing requirements. HolBadSanta: I don't understand what you're saying. You just described 6K, 2D, Lv2 RI...etc as a combo, implying that 6K hits and starts the combo, then you do 2D, Lv2 RI etc... Now you're trying to say it's a hit confirm? So it's more like 6K (blocked) 2D (hits) into Lv2 RI ... ??? You can easily hit confirm 6K into Lv2/3 RI. You seem to be assuming that you'll do 6K, Lv2 RI regardless of whether it hits or not which isn't the case, it's hit confirmable. Anyone who plays against a HOS will probably know 6K gatlings to 2D so you're assuming NO ONE will ever block the 2D straight after they blocked 6K and then you can do your combo? I could say my opponent has 100% chance (whatever that means) to block the 2D as well, in fact it happens to me all the time. Then you can just CC or whatever. Or you can just CC 6K on block, or cancel to BHB AC FRC whatever. 6K use has been discussed in the general discussion thread.

There's no need for the 2D in that combo, Lv2 and Lv3 RI combo after 6K on normal hit, the sweep will just give you the odd floor bounce. I'm pretty sure something like 6K, Lv2 RI, 5S©, 5HS hj.IAD j.P, j.K, Lv1 SV will get you better damage from 6K when using Lv2 RI. 2D (CC) is little odd on normal hit...on CH the follow up is easy but on normal hit sometimes a dash before hand will help and sometimes you won't need the dash at all. Make sure the CC it as fast as possible, then press 5K (if you're going for 5K, 5S©) or 5S© (if you're going for 5S©, 5HS on CH) as soon as you recover from the CC. The easiest combo to practice is probably 2D (CC) 5K, 5S© JC j.K, j.S, dj.K, j.S, Lv1 SV then the next easiest to do is something like 2D (CC) 5K, 5S© JC j.S, dj.S, j.HS, Lv1 SV then you can start adding hj.IAD stuff in on CH.

BL Pancho: I would suggest doing what reaver posted a few pages back, i.e. just practice the combo j.HS (CH) 2S (or 5S©) 5HS, hj.IAD j.P, j.HS, LV1 SV over and over. You will get a feeling for the combo and the timing of hj.IAD. What I did was turned off teching and just did this combo over and over. At first I was getting Black Beats, but as you get more used to the timing and speed things up, you'll start landing the proper combo. By switching teching off you can see the difference in timing requirements from this being a Black Beat combo to it being a true combo. Against some characters, the gap that this combo alternates between Black Beat and true is very small (i.e. you could be off with j.P by a milisecond or so and the combo goes Black Beat). After you get the feeling for the motion (296 or whatever) you can start doing it after other stuff like 2D (CH) CC, Lv2 RI, Lv2 TR, Fafnir etc... Remember what Titanium Beast posted, put a dash in before the 2S, 5HS part after Fafnir. You'll need to work out the range it works from, as reaver said, hitting with the tip of Fafnir will give you no other followup accept another Fafnir (possibly an OD).

Working on Rock It combos, 5K, 5S©, 2S, Lv2 RI, 5S©, 5HS into hj.IAD combo does good Tensionless damage in both midscreen and the corner against everyone. Against some of the heavier characters you can use 2S, 5HS hj.IAD but get a few points less damage. From a jump-in. you may end up getting 5S(f), 5HS after the RI due to pushback but I think a hj.IAD j.P will still connect. EDIT: In fact it's better to do 5K, 5S© into Lv2 RI, I'm having issues trying to get hj.IAD stuff if you add in the 2S and I've a feeling it's not possible from a jump-in. Something like, 5K, 5S©, Lv2 RI, 5S©, 5HS hj.IAD, j.P, j.HS, Lv1 SV will get you 144 on Eddie for example and about 122 on Potemkin. The only decent time I can see that you'd want to RC a Lv2 RI is if you're heading into the corner and can catch them with j.HS, j.D, dj.HS, j.D into corner re-juggle or tech trap. Otherwise it's just a waste of bar.

If you do 2HS very meaty on wakeup (literally hitting with the last few active frames) you should be able to link 5K after it. Is that what you're asking about Akira? I've now uploaded Part 2 of the vids I'm doing and added it to the first post here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3tKUUpIua8

Action Charge can't be negative edged, so releasing D after doing a move won't give you an Action Charge, it'll give you nothing. You'd need to press D again. As pretty much all of HOS's specials have slightly different uses depending on their level, what I do to conserve level is situational. Normally I will simply press P+D together to do Lv1 BHB at Lv2 and so on. Backdash (D) Lv1 RI is another example of something I might do. Only thing you need to worry about is GB (as HOS players will know, you need to have D held down beforehand) in which case I'll have D held down from "something" (backdash, sweep, j.D...). Everything else is probably most easily done by simply hitting D and "whatever" button at the same time.

For the that vid I was using HOS's normal D colour (Blue/Black with White hair). Every combo I did in Part 3 (baring maybe 1 or 2) can be found in the 1st post of this thread, amongst a load of other things.

Ok cool, thanks, I'll work more on shorter gatlings into BHB (I usually end up doing dash buffered BHB to start pressure instead of 5K, BHB) and dash buffered Fafnirs after Lv2 BHB.

Thanks, I'm glad you found them useful. Is anyone experimenting with using Fafnir after BHBs in combos? For example, 5K, 5S©, 2S, Lv1 BHB, Fafnir ... or 6K (CH) Lv2 BHB, Fafnir ... I find that trying to use these combos leaves you too far back after the Fafnir hits to get anything afterwards, especially trying to get a dash 2S, 5HS. Is my timing just off or can you do normal Fafnir combos from these kind of situations? The best I seem to get is just another Fafnir.