LM_Akira

Cool, I will add them to the first post. Too busy with work and other things right now to properly get to grips with AC Order-Sol.

WUT: I wasn't saying I'm necessarily frustrated with the fact his options are character specific (I play VF after all, max damage there is all about weight, stance and distance specific combos) I'm talking about the fact his combos are character specific as well as timing specific. Or perhaps that should read his combos differ in timing dependendent on your opponent's char. e.g. doing Throw (wall stick) j.HS, j.D, dj.HS, j.D, Lv1 236K as a base ultra basic combo on Potemkin is a piece of cake. Do it vs Johnny and it won't connect, you need a dash 5S© (just a 5S© if you're close) and then the timing in getting the dj.HS... bit is a right pain. Try this combo on May and the final j.D into BRP will whiff. Vs Testy you can get stuff in like Throw (wall stick) j.HS, j.D, dj.HS, j.D dash 5S© HJC hj.S, j.HS, j.D but nailing the dash 5S© is tough. You can even add to this combo but I find it too hard to catch with the 5S©. Adding in the right delay between j.HS, j.D (delay) dj.HS, j.D has lost me a few matches already. I've never had a problem getting to grips with his corner throw/6P combos but I'm finding the new timings vs different chars a real issue.

If you watch kaqn play, you'll see how he uses dash into Lv2 BHB AC FRC right in their face into mixups or frametraps afterwards, I'm not so sure if it's really best to use it in combos, probably better to end short gatlings with Lv1 BHB AC FRC into rushdown. Lv2 RI is maybe a better tool to use in combos over Lv2 BHB. I think it's already been noted but in the corner after Lv2/3 BHB AC FRC you can actually grab them when they're still on fire lol. Lv1 BRP FRC into throw is old school for HOS now, with added throw techs it's probably best to start mixing it up with lows and an overhead here and there more often now. The rest of your stuff should prob be discussed in the general strat thread. Is anyone else getting frustrated with his corner throw combos? I've been going through all the chars bit by bit and some require a dash 5S© in order to combo j.HS, j.D, dj.HS, j.D, ender ... afterwards and some don't tho the actual main part of the combo can vary in timing quite a bit . Timing is very strange vs some chars (e.g. Johnny) but really easy vs others. Getting an ender in like dash 5S© into other stuff I find really tight (especially against Testament even tho you see kaqn get it almost all the time) and some chars (like May) seem to have no basic follow up as the last j.D will whiff not matter what delay you put in. I'm having the same problems with Lv1 GB follow ups too. I've found myself starting to use the ancient wargasm combo Lv1 214S dash 5HS JC j.S, dj.HS, Lv1 623HS over the new BnB combo. I have issues with getting 2 hits with SV after the end of the BnB and also how deep you're supposed to hit with the dash 5S©. Vs May the j.D at the end of the HJ will seemingly always miss and vs some chars dash 5S© is either extremely tight or get in OR doesn't seem to work (e.g. vs Sol). Then again some cases (like Zappa) it seems really easy to get in. The new BnB works well vs heavies (Po, Robo-Ky, Johnny, ABA etc) but in that case I sometimes opt for the tighter j.HS, j.D, dj.HS, j.D, Lv1 BRP just for the little extra damage.

One randonm thing I thought I'd post...a while back I asked the question if you can (when at Lv2) hold down D, do Lv1 BHB and negative edge D for the AC to Lv3. After a little testing I couldn't get the AC to come from negative edge but the trick is still do-able: At Lv2, hold down D and whiff Lv 1 BHB, release then press D again for the AC as BHB is recovering. You've essentially gone from a Lv1 move to Lv3. And if you want, FRC the AC of course in order to start a rushdown with Lv3 ready. Nothing major but perhaps it could prove useful for something in the future. Another use of this is in doing Lv1 GB (when at Lv2) and hit confirming the AC FRC when it is blocked. Or would this be too risky as a general strategy? If you did this from a CH Lv1 GB you'd be able to follow up with dash j.HS, j.D, dj.HS, j.D, ender... where the ender could involve a Lv3 move (or if you're back was in the corner to start with, additional stuff). You could even do this trick after a combo ending in j.D, Lv1 SV (when at Lv2) AC FRC to land with Lv3 after a combo. Just a few ideas.

Ok, after some testing, Order-Sol can nullify the following projectiles with his 6P: Venom's balls Sol's Gun Flame Ky's Stun Edges (S and HS ground, D tho you will eat the 2 remaining hits if you nullify the first hit. S and HS air tho for the S the angle is awkward so you may take a low hit) ABA's fireball and the 1st part of her FB fireball, the second hit you can block tho timing is harder than for normal fireball. Johnny's Coin I-No's Note (but, you can only nullify the 1st hit, you will take the following 3/4 hits on follow up. On the other hand you can use 6P to make the note go right thru you. If it's too low you can't use 6P) Dizzy's Sycthe Anji's butterflies (normal and FB, tho they will always transform after being nullified) Mini Eddies's fireball from the ground. Could it possibly be used to stop one of his unblockables? Millia's S, HS and D rings. Her FB ring you can nullify the first hit and block the following 2 hits. You can also nullify her ring super too, just the first hit but you can block the other two follow up hits. Baiken's ground tatami mat (quite hard to time tho, probably useless) AND her air tatami mat. Robo-Ky's ground and air missiles. Higher levels and you can just nullify the first hit and block the rest. Zappa's P, S and high Ghost toss. All versions of Darkness Anthem (on doing so the fireball simply passes right through you). He can't nullify Zappa's vomit (his new 5S(f) now has it's own hitbox in flight and on the floor) CPU Potemkin flicked back my 6P the other night so I need to try and test this again properly. I'll add more to the list as and when I test them.

In that case, can Potemkin FDB Order-Sol's 6P? Have you tested that at all?

After watching god knows how many AC HOS matches I don't think I've ever seen anyone pull out a Lv2/Lv3 BHB before...and now I know why I have to agree that it feels disapointing to lose the "fireball eating" Lv2/3 BHBs to have them replaced with a short ranged hilt explosions but I guess we'll have to see what comes from it. Also I did about 5 mins testing with 6P last night to see if it can nulify projectiles (like it seemed to in a couple of revent vids) but it defininitely doesn't stop stun edges. Didn't test venom's balls tho, will do tonight. 6 frame FRC window on AC rocks tho.

lol Apologies ReaVer I'd read your post a couple of days ago and forgot you'd mentioned it. Also my comments about JI weren't aimed at you they were aimed at Icege. TB: I've literally had the game for a day or so now and I was messing up the new staple Lv1 Gun Blaze combo so I started tinkering with a straight dash j.HS instead. For some reason I find the old BnB Slash combo (i.e. dash hj.S, j.HS, j.D, Lv 1 SV) is easier to land after a Gun Blaze crossup than just normal Gun Blaze hit. It might just be my inexperience with the game but doing his Slash BnB (not using the run up 5S©) seems stricter now (is it because of the lower float?). lol I got around 197 from a normal Fafnir hit on I-No using JI and heading into the corner from almost midscreen. It's about time he got something to give him silly (easy) damage, pretty much everyone else has. Also, comboing into DI:Sakkai is too much fun

The definition of JI was never in dispute. I was just saying the JI combo you gave was a really old one, better ones existed in Slash. Speaking of which, what I listed above still works off 6P in the corner. You can also JI from just 5S© as listed in the Accent Core combo above (and discussed by reaVer). After a quick mess around I found that... Lv1 214S dash j.HS, j.D, dj.HS, j.D, Lv1 236K does around 162 on Sol (works vs Sol, Ky, Johnny, Testament of the chars I've used it against so far), few points more than the standard Lv1 214S dash 5S© hj.S, j.HS, j.D, Lv1 623HS.

The standard (so far) corner combos are already on page 1 of this thread. I don't know for sure yet but I'm almost certain the j.HS, j.D follow up after wall stick is guaranteed vs all chars (seen it used vs a lot). You can also stick in a 5S© before jumping too. To do a JI in the combo you wouldn't do it straight away like in his old combos. So you have something like: Throw (wall stick) j.HS, j.D, dj.HS, j.D, 236K or 623HS Throw (wall stick) 5S©, j.HS, j.D, dj.HS, j.D, ender... Throw (wall stick) j.HS, j.D, dj.HS, j.D, 5S© HJI hj.S, j.HS, j.D, dj.D,... Or something along these lines anyway. Diveman: That's a really old Slash combo. His standard one in Slash was: Throw 5S© JI 5S(f) hj.S, j.HS, j.D, dj.HS, j.D, Lv1/Lv2 236K I will try get a short vid up soon.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Titanium Beast is talking about not having to rely on Slash style tricky CH set ups and mind games to score big damage...I think anyone who's seen more than 1 AC HOS vid has seen j.HS counter more than once without any need of "setting it up" as a CH. Oh yeah, the game's been available on PS2 for about 3 days or something. I'm pretty sure AC HOS isn't a closed book just yet :P

That's awesome. I don't think I've come across it in matches (or I've been too lazy at looking at his Lv gauge) but being able to do Lv1 overdrives at Lv3 could open up some nice possibilities... corner sweep into Lv1 savage fang > high jump xx in Lv 2/3 moves???

Nice. I've seen a bunch of cool things in matches that I've not added yet. Off topic but kekken was down in London the other day for our last Slash tournament here, his Zappa was awesome tho he got knocked out in the quarters.

lol beat me to it, I was going to say exactly the same thing. Whenever I hear people talk about this topic, they always say 6FRC6 method is probably the best to use but don't talk about other methods. How many other methods are there? Would a buffered 66FRC be viable or is it something else?

Well I don't actually have a copy of it but I think I know what you're talking about as I've seen the combo vid on youtube. It's at the end of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deqiFb5abAs Right? HOS comes in at 3:57. Here are the things he does: Vs Axl: Dash 5K, 5S©, 5HS IAD j.P, j.S, j.HS, 5HS IAD j.P, j.S, j.HS, 5K, 2D, Lv3 Tyrant Rave Vs Axl: (vertical jump) air dash j.S, j.HS, 41236D, Lv3 236S, Lv3 623HS, Lv2 Tyrant Rave, 41236D vs Axl: dash jump j.HS, 5K, 5S©, Dragon Install Sakkai Note that even tho the opponent never techs in the video, the counter doesn't go black. The first thing is probably something that will only work on tall chars for a start and the last thing has already been seen or discussed quite a while ago I think.

I've not seen it done in any of the videos I've seen but that doesn't mean it's still not possible. Yeah, for the corner throw combos there is a noticeble delay when hitting stuff like j.HS, j.D (delay) dj.HS, j.D I'll try and add a few more new things here soon, I've seen a few cool new combos in recent vids. Just a few more weeks to get hands on experience...

Hey Scott, I could have put these vids up on youtube if you wanted me too, in fact I could have edited together all your Zappa matches so people would have more stuff to watch.

This combo is written in the mook and I posted it up the page before this one in this thread:

I wasn't aware of this thanks, I've corrected the post. I don't have the Mook to hand with me atm so I can't double check things...I know my Japanese isn't perfect but I do know that if "dash" is written in a combo in the Mook then I've translated it and left it in (as in Combo 1.) Very occasionally the Mook will list (land) in brackets if you have to re-jump in a combo and occasionally it won't when it's obvious. So sometimes I will add in (land) myself but I've never added in "dash" unless it's definately there. Zoogstin, those combos are ffrom the Mook. They don't list the absolute best combos to be using vs every char in every possible situation. The game is still only 3 months old. I feel that they're designed to give you a feel for combos. So yes there are probably better options for some combos.

Here are the Zappa combos I've translated from the back of the ^Core mook: Zappa 1. (No Summon) 2K, 2D, 236P RC dash 5S© 236P, dash 214D ( 78 ) 2. (No Summon) Throw, 5P, (?) ( 58 ) 3. (Dog Summon) 2K, 5S©, 6P, 6D air dash j.P (2 P...D...?) x5 5P, 2K, 2D (press 2+K+D) (91) 4. (Dog Summon) (corner) 5HS, 5D, {5S©, 2HS, 5D} x1~2 5S©, 2HS, 5D, 6HS (211) 5. (Dog Summon) 8D (CH) j.P, j.S JC 8D, j.P, j.S, 8D (104) *(1) 6. (Sword Summon) [63214HS (CH)] or [623HS (CH) FRC] dash 5S© JI 2HS (2 hits) HJC hj.S, dj.S, j.HS, 236HS (180) *(1) 7. (Sword Summon) (corner) 5S(f), 63214HS FRC dash 5S©, 2HS (1 hit) JC j.S, dj.S, j.D, 236HS (183) 8. (Ghost Summon) j.HS, 5S© JI 5HS HJC hj.P xN, dj.P, j.D, 236HS (116) 9. (Raoh Summon) 214S RC dash jump j.HS (land) j.S, j.HS dash 214S, 214S (331) 10. (Raoh Summon) (corner) 214S RC {dash 6HS, 236S, K} x3 dash 5S(f), 214S (399) 11. (Raoh Summon) 5D, j.HS x2, 2HS, 236S, 5S(f), 214S (256) 12. (Raoh Summon) (corner) 5D, 214S, j.S, j.HS dash 214S, 214S RC dash 214S, 214S ( 388 ) 13. (Raoh Summon) 2S, 5HS, 236S, K dash jump j.S, j.HS dash 214S (237) 14. (Raoh Summon) (...?) throw dash jump j.S, j.HS (land) j.S, j.HS dash 214S, 214S (171) *(3) Notes: Combo 1. uses Zappa's new Force Break move, 214D which rids him of any present summons and gives him an orb on hit. So technically the combo should give you 7 orbs for 75% Tension (as opposed to using 100% Tension and trying to combo into Raoh). Not sure about the end to Combo 2. I think Combo 3. is supposed to be done as a cross up with the Dog and the j.Ps. Combo 6. ends with Zappa's new Sword move in the air, 236HS. Combo 10. uses one of the new follow ups to Darkness Anthem, K which knocks the fireball at an angle toward the ground. Combo 11. is an Impossible Dust. The notes I added myself but there are further notes (and some small gaps) that I still need to sort out.

For those interested, here are some A.B.A. combos I've translated from the ^Core mook: A.B.A. 1. (Normal Mode) j.HS, 5P, 2S, 2HS JC j.S, j.P, j.S, dj.S, 63214HS (123) 2. (Normal Mode) (corner) 5S(f), 236S, 46S, 63214S FRC dash 2HS JC j.S, j.P, j.S, dj.S, 63214HS (146) 3. (Normal Mode) (corner) 5D, homing jump, j.S x3~4, j.P, j.S, j.P, j.S, dj.S, 63214HS (93) 4. (Moroha Mode) 5S(f), 236S, 46S, 63214S FRC dash 6HS JC j.S, dj.S, j.HS, j.D (196) 5. (Moroha Mode) j.S, j.HS [5S©, 2HS] or [2K, 5S©, 2HS] JC air dash j.S, j.HS, 41236S FRC dash 5S©, 2S JC j.HS (197) 6. (Moroha Mode) (corner) j.S, j.HS [5S©, 2HS] or [2K, 5S©, 2HS] JC air dash j.S, j.HS, 41236S, 2S, 63214HS, 63214HS (182) 7. (Moroha Mode) (corner) j.HS, 5S©, 2HS JC j.S, j.HS, j.D, 41236S dash jump j.S, j.HS, j.D, 41236S, dash jump, j.K, j.S, dj.HS, 63214HS (234) 8. (Moroha Mode) (corner) j.S, j.HS [5S©, 2HS] or [2K, 5S©, 2HS] 421HS RC 41236S, dash jump j.S, j.HS, j.D, 41236S, 63214HS, 63214HS (224) 9. (Moroha Mode) (corner) 623D, dash jump j.S, j.HS, j.D (land) j.S, j.HS, j.D, 41236S, dash jump j.S, dj.S, j.HS, 63214HS (250) 10. (Moroha Mode) (corner) throw, 623D, 2HS, 623D, 5S(f), 63214HS, 63214HS (99) Notes: Combos 1.~3. all start in Normal Mode and combo into Keygrab at the end to transform in Moroha Mode. I think the idea with Combos 6., 8. and 10. is to combo into Keygrab at the end to transform into Normal Mode and hence recover health but then to immediately use Keygrab to go back into Moroha Mode. Combo 9. uses her new Force Break move, 623D (similar to her usual 623HS). The notes I added myself but there are also further notes still to translate.

Yeah, HOS is my main char really but I did use a little of Dizzy in Reload. I always meant to go back to her in Slash but it looks like I will in ^Core now. I should note that there is also a long section of discussion alongside Dizzy's combos where they're written in the mook but I'm not translating that just yet. After I've finished all char's combos I'll go back and do my best to work out what it's saying.

To kinda answer some of your possible queries about stuff, here are the Dizzy combos I translated from the back of the ^Core mook. Dizzy 1. air dash j.2S, j.HS (land) 5K, 5S©, 5HS, 236HS (156) 2. dash 5K, 5HS, 236HS FRC IAD j.2S, j.HS (land) j.K, j.P, j.S, dj.S, j.D (183) 3. (crouching opponent) air dash j.2S, j.HS (land) 2K, 5HS, 2HS, 236HS (172) 4. [throw] or [air throw] dash 2K, 5S(f) (2~4 hits) 236HS (88-97) 5. (opponent jumping in) 2S JC j.P, j.P, j.S, dj.S, j.D (119) 6. (opponent jumping in) dash 2S (CH) 421S (1 hit) hj.HS, 214K (air spike hits) j.K (bubble pop) land j.S, dj.S, j.D (212) 7. (...) dash 6HS (2 hits) JC j.S, dj.S, j.D (191) 8. 5D, homing jump, j.HS, j.HS, 214P, j.HS (bubble pop) land j.S, dj.S, j.D (175) 9. (corner) dash 5S©, 6P, 421S (1 hit) 6HS (2 hits) (air spike hits) JC j.S, dj.S, j.D (203) 10. (corner) dash 5S©, 6P, 421S, IAD j.HS, 214P (air spike hits, bubble pop, land) 5S© JC j.S, dj.S, j.D (215) Notes: First few combos use Dizzy's new j.2S move. Combo 2. shows an example of an Ice Spike FRC combo in Accent Core. Not sure how combo 7. begins. Combo 8. is an Impossible Dust. The notes I added myself.

0. MOVE CONVENTIONS / NOTATION 236 = qcf 623 = dp 214 = qcb 41236 = hcf 632146 = hcb, f etc... P = Punch K = Kick S© = Slash (close) S(f) = Slash (far) HS = Hard Slash D = Dust 5xx = neutral xx 2xx = crouching xx 6xx = f+xx j.xx = jumping xx dj.xx = double jump xx hj.xx = high jump xx JC = jump cancel HJC = high jump cancel IAD = instant air dash (e.g. 96) hj.IAD = high jump instant air dash (e.g. 296...particularly useful in Fafnir and j.HS (CH) combos) CH = counter hit RC = roman cancel FRC = force/false roman cancel TK = tiger knee (e.g. 2369 / qcf, uf) CH = counter hit JI = jump install (basically JC a move but perform another move straight away before the jump comes out...the jump is "stored" and doing this will allow you to dj after a hj, something not normally possible) ID = impossible dust (essentially, performing an action, e.g. dj or FD 29 frames before the dust screen comes on will cancel your homing jump and let you fall to the ground quickly whilst your opponent will be stuck in a long un-techable state. The easiest example with Order-Sol is: 5D, homing jump, dj.HS i.e. hold up after hitting with dust but then dj.HS straight away before the dust screen comes on. If done correctly you will fall to the ground and your opponent will slowly float down in a long un-techable state, allowing you to combo them further. This is an example of a 1 hit ID. In general it is probably better to go for a 2 hit ID, as described by Titanium Beast: 2 hit ID is easy, the key is to doublejump after the first attack and quickly throw the second attack before you fall too far. Here's how I do it: Dust, hold 8, j.H, tap 8,9H, land, combo.)

From what I've seen players use, after a CC people will generally rush back in for another in quick succession. So you see things like: gatling, 2D CC (hit or block) dash in, gatling, 2D CC (hit or block) and so on or occasionally they'll throw out Fafnir (force break) or some other special after a CC but not that often. I think I've only ever seen 1 match where someone did CC into charge burst and maybe only 1 or 2 matches where CC was used IN THE MIDDLE of a combo which looked really bizarre at first. That's an example listed above Vs Slayer. After 5HS I've seen quite a bit of Lv1 RI...I don't think 5HS pushes out as much now (and it's obviously lost a hit). I've also seen kaqn go for some weird IAD combos after 5HS at the end of a gatling and the IAD j.K or whatever he uses usually connects but sometimes misses. Getting to higher levels is far easier and happens far more regulary now. You can literally reach Lv3 within a matter of seconds if you start a round off well. HOS players will even sometimes end up whiffing Lv2/Lv3 moves probably because they know they don't have to worry about getting back up to Lv2/Lv3 too much, it's far easier than in Slash. Whiff Lv1 BHB AC is still a viable way of building gauge and off the top of my head, if you're at Lv2, holding D and whiffing Lv1 BHB using negative edge to get an AC afterwards could take you from Lv2 to Lv3 from a Lv1 move, actually bypassing Lv2. I'll re-watch some more matches later and add things.