LM_Akira

Well, he does have Lv3 BHB. It doesn't function in the same way as GF FRC and you have to be closer for it to be useful but it does give you "blanket coverage" and a free mixup if they block it. Sol's mixup from GF FRC is stronger as he has a command throw to utilise but yeah, HOS still has something he can use and run in behind to put opponents under pressure.

Good stuff WUT, I will try out some of those things the next time I get to fight ABA. I've always held the notion that you should simply go for knockdown against Moroha ABA and forget combos but I'll work more on dust looping her in future. Oh yeah, Moroha 2S is solid anti air too, much like Slayer's 2S. Hintalove, for approaching Moroha ABA all I can really think of atm is FD braking and low jump > double jump backwards to try and bait stuff.

Yeah WUT already said that. But I also tested yday too, seems you need to stand block against the summon attempt tho, if you're crouching I couldn't get the Fafnir to hit but maybe I wasn't quick enough. Lv3 RI hit him too after standing block but it was tight (because it has 12F startup and Zappa's on -12). All levels of Savage Fang are also guaranteed after blocking Centipedes (doesn't matter if you're crouching or standing because it's so fast). Lv3 Tyrant Rave is also guaranteed on standing block. In fact you can even get Dragon Install on standing block lol that would be a nice finish. Against Sword's 236S, if you block the first part you can hit him with Fafnir if he doesn't do the extend. Problem is, if he does the extend straight away and you do Fafnir, he'll hit and get 3 Orbs. If he does the extend and you block it, you can get guaranteed CH Fafnir and CH Lv1 RI, probably lots of other stuff too (he's -24 and in CH state till end of recovery). So it's always safer to block the extend then hit him, even if your opponent is mixing up doing/not doing the extend part.

GreasyGyro718: Ah ok cool, I understand what you mean now. I may well try that next time I play.

Baited charge burst = big trouble for HOS

So I had very little experience with this matchup until quite recently, when I was able to play an extremely strong ABA/I-No/Slayer player. In terms of fighting against her, I believe the idea is to try and stop her transforming as much as possible. Keep Normal Mode ABA under as much pressure as possible because if she gets a chance to transform into Moroha Mode, your job is going to become a nightmare. The problem with this is the fact that Normal Mode ABA will always be looking for a chance to transform so you need to stay on your toes. So just saying "pressure Normal Mode ABA so she can't transform" is easier said than done . Normal Mode ABA poses no real threat to you. If you can get up into her face, CC lockdown works nicely as long as you mixup your options. Watch out for 2K or 2D as these both lead to free keygrabs, as well her throw and 2HS. Keygrab will work from a surprising number of options, as well as by itself (e.g. predictable Lv1 Rock Its can be keygrabbed!). Moroha Mode ABA is scary. Don't try and combo her unless you're; a) Going to kill her b) Can end the combo in knockdown c) Her Moroha gauge will empty by the time the combo has finished 3 knockdowns will remove all of her Moroha bar and will give you a free combo after the 3rd one (she's vulnerable as she gets up). So try to go for the knockdowns instead of combos as a good ABA will always know when to recover their health and generally undo the work you did in killing her during her Moroha Mode rampage. Some random notes: - whiff j.P falling j.HS will lose to Normal Mode's 2HS (and give her a free combo and transform) and Danzai in Moroha mode (you will most likely land a CH with the j.HS but the super armour will just absorb it). I'm pretty sure this will lose to Moroha mode's 6P as well. In the case of Normal Mode, the damage is nothing to worry about (but she gets a transform ) however, in Moroha Mode she can hurt you really badly from these anti airs, especially leading into the corner. I didn't test out j.P, j.P. Maybe j.P FD (if they don't do anything at first) as Titanium Beast suggest against Slayer's 2S may work better if you're going to jump forwards. - Moroha Mode 5S(f) will obliterate your 5S(f) or 2S, most likely other moves to (I didn't get a chance to try 5HS but I doubt it would be any use) at mid range. Basically you can't hit buttons if you're both on neutral ground and there's a gap between you because she will outpoke you and combo from the resultant hit. - Moroha Mode ABA has a solid fuzzy guard game and can keep you in block stun for long periods of time (building your guard gauge in the blink of an eye). Dead Angle works well vs Moroha Mode to count as one of your knockdowns but smart ABA players will save their burst for these times and so will burst before she is knocked down (so in other words, Dead Angle when she doesn't have burst is a free knockdown). - As with all dragon punches, Danzai needs to be baited (or at least an attempt to bait it must be made) it's super armour will most likely result in you being swatted away if you try to blindly rushdown Moroha Mode ABA. - If the ABA player is abusing the stagger on the 2nd hit of rekkas, you need to mash out of it so's to stop them running back in and extending their combo. - Lv1 GB functions as good anti air against Moroha Mode ABA (using j.S or Konzetsu as crossup/non crossup shenanigans on wakeup is also something to watch out for). - Moroha Mode sweep has sickening range Recent match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyS9MyCNDuc I have some other matches where I'm not playing like a total scrub and I'm playing with more of a gameplan but I've got hours and hours of casuals to wade thru to find them.

With regards to this, Raoh does have a high / low oki option against you with 5D and 2HS. Both have similar startup and active time and both lead into massive damage combos (Raoh's ID after 5D is really easy and 2HS floats on hit for followup combos). Both have a similar-ish animation too, so unless you learn to recognise which move is which, you'll most likely take a lot of damage from either situation. Depending on how the moves are used, you could reversal backdash/special against this mixup but it's a risk. If Raoh is out and Zappa has over 50% Tension, don't ever consider jumping towards him, anti air Edge RC will most likely win the round for Zappa (it has a ridiculous 4F of startup only). You could always jump forwards and FD but that won't really put you in any sort of good position.

Yes, there are plenty of corner options that Zappa has with Dog summon that can keep you pinned down for quite some time. Dog Bite loop is something that springs to mind as well as the IAD stuff (block strings where the Dog is hitting you and Zappa loops IAD into ground strings). Note that you can only hit and destroy the Dog as it is being controlled by Zappa and doing a move i.e. if you hit the Dog when it is sat idle and doing nothing, you will not get rid of it. If you hit it as it is being commanded to do something, it'll disappear. Ummm no, Sesshryu is the Order-Sol player describing how he escapes Zappa Dog block strings, Hintalove is telling him the Zappa he plays against is not creative enough with his block strings to keep him pinned down.

lol beat me to it, I wanted to started this thread quite soon actually. Some pointers I can think of for the time being... The main concern when fighting Zappa is having to deal with Raoh. Certain moves that Zappa has in unsummon and Ghost/Dog/Sword summon mode will give him orbs. Once he has 8 orbs, he can summon Raoh, which is going to make your life a major pain for the 14 seconds or so he's around. If you know which moves to look for (which give Zappa orbs) you'll know which moves you should try your best to avoid being hit with. Cutting down hits taken from these moves will ultimately make it harder for Zappa to summon Raoh, which ultimately makes your life easier (yeah, easier said than done I'm afraid). Zappa's Centipedes (236P) acts as his summon move. On hit it gives 3 orbs and knockdown. If you trade with Centipedes, Zappa will still get 3 orbs (3 orbs is the most you can get from a single move). The move itself is basically a grounded dragon punch and as such can be baited. When use in combos it will still give 3 orbs, hence it's possible for Zappa to RC this move multiple times (twice in fact) within a combo to get "instant" Raoh. Zappa's force break 214D will unsummon whatever summon he currently has and will give an orb on hit (it's also an overhead). - Actually, I will add more to/edit this post shortly, I will write up things more coherently when I have the time.

At a decent distance you could probably Fafnir his 5K, but close up I think 5K would eat Fafnir for breakfast, as with most pokes (I've lost count of how many pokes will stuff Fafnir if you're close up, yeah I know, don't use Fafnir that close up, but sometimes I find you need to). If you like to do Lv1 RI (blocked) > Fafnir, Johnny's 2HS will actually stuff your Fafnir too. Of course the Johnny player would have to know this, and expect your Fafnir. 5HS, 6HS and Lv1 P MF all act as easy tech traps against HOS, I fucking hate being caught with these and taken into a combo or knocked down. Coin pressure/ wavedash rushdown is also a right pain, I just try to stay mobile and block as correctly as possible. I play this match all the time, a bit less right now as I'm focusing on other chars but I can add some more stuff next time I play.

Don't forget the high/low mixup from TK Ensenga or Lv2 low MF when you're in the corner, Johnny can combo from either of these from 6 miles away Yes they take resources for him but it's frustrating he can combo you from such a large distance lol I find my DL vs Johnny too inconsistent so I tend to stick with HJ combos or JI stuff.

Yes but damages on all combos would be a complete nightmare to do and take up valuable text space (besides which, characters have differing health as well as other things to consider like guard gauge and GUTs). Tier lists have nothing to do with this thread and are entirely subjective anyway, they have no bearing on his combos.

Yes, there is lots to clean up in the first post. I will get on top of it as soon as I get the chance. Also, things like Lv2 GB combos Kamui Moon and Titanium Beast posted and examples of when and when not GB will cross up I will make a short video for, I will not write them up into the first post to save space.

You can FRC BRP, GB and AC. Just go into training, turn on input display at the bottom of the screen and do these moves. The bar will flash blue in the FRC window, helping you learn the timing. If you watch part 2 of the vids, you'll see the timing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3tKUUpIua8

If you want more ideas for oki, check here: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1632&page=25

Note in this vid here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INeaCnVrvTk at 2.51, Slayer actually just forward dashes to avoid the Fafnir after Lv1 RI, as ANOTHER option to think about in this situation.

2HS RC dash 5K, 5S©, 2S, 2D That should set you up correctly for a GB crossup. Might not work on characters like Faust however, due to his long hitbox (first GB might otg).

Meaty means doing a move as oki so that it's already active as the opponent wakes up. For example, the 2nd GB in the standard GB crossup (fast GB, not delayed) situation is meaty as it is already active as the opponent wakes up...and it will stuff/beat reversal attacks if they try them. So meaty Lv3 BHB means throw out the BHB just before the opponent rises, so that the flames are active as the opponent wakes up into them. 2HS has limited use as a meaty oki setup too.

Ahh yeah, I can get it to work now thanks. Lv3 BRP > Lv3 SV also works as a flashy combo too I found (damage isn't really saying much mind).

Wow that JI into Charge is awesome, never thought to try that. WUT, when you talked about doing 2 Lv3 BRPs in a row, how do you get the second one to be at Lv3?

? This is actually covered in the youtube link I posted directly above yours. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGJMARVoXxg The best use I can think of within a combo is Lv3 RI into Lv3 SV. Looks flashy, never really compared the damage with other combos. On block you can do Lv3 RI into Lv3 BHB for a free mixup. Both are shown in the above vid from 2:41. I'm sure there may be other more interesting uses of Lv3 > Lv3 but overall I don't think they'll be particularly useful.

lol That's purely semantics If you do j.HS, 5K, 5S Lv3 RI blah blah and don't hit 5K quick enough so's to not go thru neutral frames as you land, you don't get the auto-JI. That's exactly the same as going for the j.P, j.S, j.D land 5S© high jump re-juggle Titanium Beast posted. (And it's the same for I-No, hoverdash auto-JIs but if you land and do 2K or 5S© and you're not quick enough, you'll lose the JI you need for HCL FRC airdash). EDIT: Part 6 is now up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGJMARVoXxg Be warned, it's fucking epic. Recording the last section was not pleasant but something tells me I may end up embellishing more on dust loop in the future.

Something very interesting I just discovered... Due to the way JI works, if in a combo, you start with a jump-in move and hit the next move (let's just assume it's a 1 hit jump-in) fast enough that you don't go thru any neutral frames, you get an automatic JI. This is one thing useful to I-No players, because hover dash auto-JIs, if she lands from hoverdash and does a normal (e.g. 2K) without going thru any neutral frames, she has the JI ready for CL FRC airdash. Now, just messing around with Lv3 RI combos in the corner, with Order-Sol you can do: j.HS, 5K, 5S©, Lv3 Rock It HJC hj.S, j.HS, j.D, dj.K, j.S, Lv2 Storm Viper !! You get the free JI if you do 5K as soon as you land and hence you get to dj after the hj. I'm sure there are other uses to this technique and possibly better ways to end the combo above, that's just something that worked after a few goes. Note it will not work from an airdash, just a jump-in (it's partly because you haven't used your extra dj initially from the first hit, the dj is stored all the way thru the combo, tho it will not work with certain specials it seems...)

I'm pretty sure j.S isnt burst safe, I've been knocked back loads of times when someone bursts from a GB combo and I did hj.S (for example).

Yes, I do. If you give me a few days, I'll have my next vid up and I will explain exactly how it works and some of the options it gives you (it's probably most useful in the corner but you can use it to get a knockdown in midscreen too).