4r5

New game, new 1-hits. This has been a bit over due. Let's get a list going. Any and all contributions are encouraged. Ideas, testing, comments on validity, whatever; post away. I'll update the first post as I have time. Right now they're are just two categories, confirmed and unconfirmed. Confirmed are where I will put all the combos that I've personally verified, I think video proof should be fine too. Unconfirmed are where supposed combos that have not yet been proven to 1hit go. We can work out the organization details as we go along. faq Q) What's a Mist Setup? A) Anything the will force Mist (214P) on to your opponent. Q) What does the Mist do? A) The Mist will make your MistFiners (236P/K/S) unblockable. Q) What is a 1-hit/Enkasu? A) Ensenga is composed of two strikes. The first strike is untechable (except for some extreme cases.) The second strike is techable. A 1-hit, or Enkasu, means to hit with only the the first strike and getting the second strike to whiff. Thus, giving you a knockdown which you can use for a recoin or a Mist setup. The second strike lights your opponent on fire. You know you have hit with only the first strike when your opponent isn't set on fire. Q) Even though I'm doing the right combo, why can't I get only the first hit, of Ensenga, to connect? A) There's no general rule, for connecting an Enkasu, that will work for all setups. Each combo will have a different timing, and even the same combo can have different timings when done on different characters. As you can see, I made no attempt to signify timing in any of the listed combos. The kind of timings we are talking about are incredibly minute. The difference of one combo done on one character to the same combo done on a different character can be as small as a 1/60th of a second. The best anyone can hope to describe these differences are as feelings. And what may feel short to one person might feel long to another. Instead I ask each of you to develop your own feel for the timings. Q) So how do I get a feel for the timings? A) Practice, practice, and more--repetitive--practice. Personally, this is how I figure out the timings for these combos, or anything else really. First I start out by just doing it. If I consistently get it on my first few tries, then cool, the combo works under my natural rhythm. Otherwise I start over, but this time doing everything as fast as I can, and as early as the game will allow. If I get it, then cool. It's a bitchy combo, but at least I know what I need to do. If I still don't get it, then this is where I start adding delays. I pick one spot where I think delay might help and insert the smallest delay I can muster in that spot. If it still doesn't work, then I increase the delay. If now I have so much delay that the combo falls apart, I repeat the step on a new spot. And if that doesn't work, I start adding delays to two spots. Then three, four, etc. the big list of mist setups -- Corner Throw -- - No Tension - throw, j.K-S-D>Enkasu AB, AX, BA, BR, CH, DI, ED, IN, JA, KY, MA, MI, RO, SL, TE, VE throw, j.P-S>dj.P-S-D>Enkasu AB, BA, BR, CH, DI, IN, KY, SL, TE, VE throw, j.P-S-D>Enkasu BA, BR, IN, JA, RO, TE, etc? throw, j.K-P-S-D>Enkasu FA, PO, TE, ZA, etc? throw, j.K-P-P-P-D>Enkasu RO, TE, ZA, etc? throw, j.K-S>dj.K-S-D>Enkasu DI, KY, SL, etc? throw, j.P-P-P-D>Enkasu TE, RO throw, j.P-P-S-D>Enkasu FA, ZA throw, coin, j.K-S-D>Enkasu FA - With Tension - throw, sj.K>KJ(frc), K-D>Enkasu AN, AX, JO throw, j.S>KJ(frc) ad.K-D>Enkasu AN, OR, SO throw, j.K-j.S>dj.K-S>KJ(frc), D>Enkasu AN, OR, SO throw, j.K>KJ(frc), D>Enkasu OR, SO -- Midscreen Throw -- - With Tension - throw, Coin, HMF3, Coin, MSJH, Mist CH(98), FA(79), JA(82), JO(79), TE(64) throw, Coin, HMF3, Coin, d.2D(2)>Mist JO(78), KY(76), TE(75), ZA(76?) -- Corner MMF2 -- - No Tension - K-HS>MMF2, Coin, iad.K-S-D, land, j.K-S>dj.K-S>D>Enkasu, land, Mist AB(149) Notes: K-HS omitable. K-HS>MMF2, Coin, iad.K-S-D>Enkasu, land, Mist BA(161), BR(143), DI(155), ED(143), MA(143) Notes: K-HS omitable. - With Tension - K-HS>MMF2, Coin, MSJH, 2D(2)>Mist BA(165), BR(147), DI(159), FA(124), IN(145), JA(145), KY(142), MA(145), MI(168) Notes: K-HS omitable. K-HS>MMF2, Coin, d.HS>MSJH, 2D(2)>Mist AB(136), BA(164), BR(165), DI(177), IN(164), JA(164), JO(157), KY(159), MI(188), OR(148), PO(133), RO(136), SO(157), TE(157), ZA(157) Notes: K-HS omitable. -- Midscreen LMF2 -- - No Tension - - With Tension - unconfirmed Corner throw, no tension throw, j.P-K>dj.K-S-D>Enkasu AN?, AX?, etc? Mid to corner, no tension throw, j.K-P-S>dj.S-HS>KJ(frc), ad.K-S-D>Enkasu etc? throw, j.P-S>dj.S-HS>KJ(frc), ad.K-S-D>Enkasu etc? throw, j.K-S>dj.S-HS>KJ(frc), ad.K-S-D>Enkasu etc? LMF2, j.7K-P-S>dj.K-S-D>Enkasu TE?

If you're near the corner you can do: ...>HMF3, dash, c.S>j.K-S-HS>KJ(frc), HS>D, land, j.K-S>dj.S-HS>KJ(frc), S>tj.S-HS-D>Ensenga j.S>j.S is hard at first, just practice it. Try tapping up before the first j.S hits (but not before the j.S its self) so that you jump-cancel it as soon as possible. That should help you with the timing.

My gameplan thus far against Order-Sol: position myself about a f.S's length away from him, watch him carefully, and counterhit what ever he tries with 5K or HS. Order-Sol's low jump let's HS double as anti-air. In fact, you can practically throw whatever you want in front of Order-Sol and it would be just as well. Been working for me so far. I agree about blocking on wake-up. You can just weasel your way out somewhere else. But I wouldn't recommend trying to dash, or backdash, out of Order-Sol's GunBlaze oki. They're doing it incorrectly if you can dash or backdash. 6P is still good, provide you can see what he's doing early enough. But if you miss your chance to 6P, 5P is a good second-chance. Level 2 Savage Fang (the huge gun flame) is quite fierce. For those not in the know, if you were not blocking before its super flash, then you can't block it. Yes, if you are jumping in, beware of his HS. Don't commit to anything too early. Double-jump if he tries to HS, or air-throw or block the Storm Viper, and hit him in his recovery. Once you're in too deep for him to HS, then do whatever. But why jump-in in at all when just standing in front of him limits his ability so well.

Johnny's lows are: 2K 2S 2D 236S 236K (at level 3) His overheads are: Dust Ensenga and, of course, all his air normals

I bet he overheats fast.

I wouldn't say Fujin is better against Johnny, or anyone else, since Fujin is something nearly the entire cast has to deal with. On the otherhand, I would say that in certain matchups Fujin isn't as good to use.

Kenji is pretty good with the psychic HSfujin. But if I don't throw anything out, then he can't fujin anything and we're kinda back to where we started. But because he hits those reversal HSfujin's so well, I'm limited to poking with moves that complete quickly. You don't need anybody else.

winamp

If you want a hella ambiguous crossup post-OD, just straight up do DBT. If you do DB out of DBT as fast as possible, it's non-crossup. If you delay by just a frame or two, it becomes crossup. Though, now in AC, you can't convert it into crazy damage. If you hit, you can go for another crossup with DBT>DB again. Or with KJT>KJ, which you can convert to big damage. Or for meterless, you can meaty a iad.S. I'll try yours out tonight, that is, if I can break out of the habit of doing my mixups.

Are you sure you can land a coin after a throw, on Baiken?

Hmmm... something definitely funny is going on with Baiken's S-Counter. After blocking it, Johnny's K, f.S and HS seem to just go straight through her. I thought maybe she has some extra invincibility that wasn't noted in the frame data, but everything else Johnny has seems to connect just fine. And other characters don't seem to have problems hitting her. Might be a training mode only glitch, maybe. Tomorrow when my friends wake up, I can get someone to help me test this outside of training mode. I guess just stick to 2D for now. You throw a coin to stop her HS-Counter. Her S-Counter is invincible to strikes on the first 19 frames, the coin will tend to trade, or just whiff entirely. What you want to do is use f.S or HS from about their max range and then cancel to coin. The coin will stop her HS-Counter, and she's too far to use her other counters. Yeah, Baiken is pretty hard to land a coin on. You can't land a coin off a throw and you can't otg coin off a close 2D. You have to do funny stuff like: HS>MC, K-2D>Coin; or 2D>MC, 2P-c.S>Coin. You can 6P the chain, but it will always clash. It's pretty easy to just iad over it and j.HS her. You'll hit her in the recover of the chain, or CH her if she tries the followup. The Baiken player is hitting you low enough with j.S to beat out your 6P? An iad.S from Baiken should put her j.S at about your head area. Is the Baiken player iad'ing, falling slightly, then j.S'ing you? 'Causes if that's what's happening then because she isn't doing the j.S straight out of her airdash, you have even more time to throw stuff in her way or to move yourself out of the way. This also implies that there is a hole lot of distance between you two. Perhaps instead of staying outside her airdash range, you might try staying closer where her airdashes will be less effective. Whatever is going on, you could always just backdash the j.S.

I dunno what else to call you but Steve. Who ever told me your name is Steve screwed you.

Here's one off Bleed's blog http://blog.livedoor.jp/project2_5_0_1/archives/2007-10.html Johnny vs: Sol = 5.5:4.5 Ky = 4.5:5.5 May = 5:5 Millia = 4.5:5.5 Eddie = 4:6 Potemkin = 4:6 Chipp = 5:5 Faust = 5:5 Baiken (Bye Ken) = 5.5:4.5 Jam = 4:6 Axl = 4:6 Anji = 5:5 Venom = 4.5:5.5 Testament = 4.5:5.5 Dizzy = 5:5 Slayer = 4.5:5.5 I-No = 4.5:5.5 Zappa = 5:5 Bridget = 5:5 Robo-Ky = 6:4 ABA = 4.5:5.5 Order-Sol = 5.5:4.5

yes

Online Games forum needs some sort of Installation and Setup sticky. Or, at the least, a tech help thread. I'm still getting IM's and PM's about how to get #r online working and I haven't been anywhere near the thing for months.

Whether a move looks overhead or not is pretty subjective. Regardless, just go in to training mode and test it out your self. Or, if you don't have access to a PS2, 'cause you play at the arcade or something, just sacrifice a round or two and try blocking the move low. If it doesn't work, then try blocking it high. If blocking it high works, then it's an overhead. If blocking high doesn't work, then OH SHIT UNBLOCKABLE.

Wait, nah. j.S chains to j.P. And j.P chains back to j.S, or j.K or another j.P, j.K also chains back to j.P and is JCable. It's what I do all the time when I'm playing Baiken and my j.S gets blocked.

No need to apologize for the questions, it's what this thread is for. But sadly, I don't have much, good, Baiken experience to confidently answer your questions. But I guess I'll try anyways, I just 6P the iad.S. If the Baiken player spaced it out so that it clashes with my 6P, then, well, it clashes and you continue on from there. Is the Baiken player setting up the iad.S in such a way that removes 6P as an option? Approaching Baiken, I still haven't solved that puzzle. Refer back to Hellmonkey's post. I just try to get a health lead and let the other guy try to figure it out.

MSJH doesn't recovery any faster then a regular JH, but it does start up faster and has a stronger stagger and more air untech time. For ground combos, you would do MSJH to increase the stagger. For juggles, you don't always need a MSJH, but doing a MSJH won't mess up your combo.

that's what it is in every other fighting game but Guilty Gear. Dunno why people didn't try to come up with a different name. Fuzzy guard is the name of that thing that happens when you block a string standing or crouching, and then your hitbox retains the shape of your standing, or crouching, guard's hitbox, regardless of whether you are actually stand blocking or crouch blocking, in till you leave block stun. Which allows for funny mixups that, usually, take advantage of your hit box being stuck a certain way, usually standing. I can't think of any good examples off the top of my head. I'm sure a Dizzy player could give you some examples.

I always try to have him on my ignore list, but he posts so much and people quote or are talking about/at him that it's just useless. Now, I try to quickly drive through the SNK threads, hoping to stumble upon a golden nugget of info; DG posts are like speed bumps. Haven't found anything yet

Whether I go in to Lv3 or not is mostly dependent on the matchup. For example, against Baiken, I take Lv3 to reduce the effectiveness of her Guard-Cancels. Against ABA, I use Lv3 to keep pace with her and to punish/avoid her Danzais more easily. Characters with slow normals/specials, like Dizzy and Potemkin, Lv3 makes the differences in speed even more drastic. But against Sol, Ky, and other characters with good reversals, Lv3 is worth less. I find the damage threat off a MF2 is worth more then the frame advantage given by MC3. Even so, sometimes taking the Lv3 and upping the pace of the match has caught my opponent off guard and netted me the win. I suppose if you are good at doing the MC3 combos and such, then you've risen above it's short comings and now you just have to worry about landing the two coins.

whoa, was that stuff recently added?

oh wait, there was one thing I forgot to test, and I was indeed wrong. each character seems to have their gauges build up at different rates. I would assume guts and/or defense modifiers are factored in some how.

Nah, everyone's guard gauge gets built up the same as everyone else.