Digital Watches

Sure. That's one I may actually lose. Dizzy is scary... I mean YOU'RE GOING DOWN.

OKAY PLASMA WHATEVER If it's flat enough that it can't be naked in australia, I won't play on it for money.

I am not playing on an LCD for money. It might be perfectly lagless, I don't care, not takin' the risk. Anyway, I'll play ya Mynus. Let's see if I can't change your anti-axl arrogance. Hehe.

Aye, it does seem like character matchups vary very little for Eddie. Of course, PLAYER matchups...

Hmmmmm... I might be too poor for plane tickets, so if I get a carpool going, I'll bring a TV. If I do end up flying, no dice on that.

lol.

Well, I'm operationally defining "Easy to pick up" as "Easy to get to a mid-level of play." I'd say Sol isn't particularly hard in that respect, but he's also not particularly easy, since intermediate game with sol involves CLSW and GF FRC, as well as at least some grasp of how to space with sol's fairly mediocre pokes.

I vote for "Two man invitation-only mini-tournaments"

Sorry to drag this out, but... when you say "picked him up," do you mean that you and these other people you mention are any good at him? Because being able to "pick up" a character can mean two different things. I mean, I can say with the utmost confidence that I could hit random select on the character screen and beat anyone who's a complete scrub. In fact, I could probably beat anyone two skill levels below me or worse that way. That doesn't make me good at every character.

That sucks. He should be playing him like he's a SF3 character. WITH HUGE DAMAGE COMBOS. AND A REALLY FAST SUPER. So I guess like, Chun Li + Makoto.

That and a lot of really universal options. Jam is definitely my top pick for easy to start out with.

I honestly think there's nothing to the idea that Sol and Ky are particularly easy compared to everyone else whatsoever. People think that because they see "LOL MAIN CHARACTER" and think they're automatically basic. Hell, except for the lack of a jab or a real reversal (Which is an adjustment for some people), I'd say my character is easier than them.

Eh. Axl charge combos are much easier than Venom stuff, no idea about may. For the most part you can just hold back through your entire combo, except for 6P/3P stuff, lol. I guess I also use 6H-->Rashou, but that's not even a cancel so it's kind of a moot point. The only instance of input buffer abuse (Not charge partitioning per se, but what charge partitioning tricks generally use) is running charge (Running rensen or running rashousen)

I dunno, faust both has the no-damage problem and the zoning problem, not to mention high-level faust using a lot of FDC work, which is an execution barrier AND a mental barrier, if you're a scrub.

Wait, does may do actual legit charge-partitioning, or is it mostly the hitstop-charge trick? (I honestly don't know, so you should tell me)

Yeah. Included there is why I really think Sol and Ky are bad choices for "Easy characters." Not the WORST choices (I'd call them both "Mid-easy" to "Intermediate" characters, but definitely not "Easy"), but certainly not the best.

Er, I guess we're just going to disagree on the Sol thing. Whatever. You've heard my arguments as to why that's just not the case, so there's not much more I can say. Anyway, wish ya the best of luck in detroit. Hopefully you can get a scene going.

Any time. Well, you talk big, but at least you're less of a bitch about it than some people. Let's see if that good attitude keeps up when you're paying me my money. East coast rawks at shittalk. OH SHIT. Maybe it's just JO players in general. Someone HAS to record these matches.

Okay so the gripe is with being vulgar? I can accept that. I'll try to be uh... nicer? This is exactly what you would think... if you're on the "Sol = Ken = Shoto" bandwagon, which is just flat not true. Sol's bread and butter combo is a sidewinder loop (Or I guess BR loop?), and the clean hit thing is something new players are NOT going to be used to. Sure, you can do chain normals blah blah into DP->Kick, but EVERY character has something easy like that (Less a bnb combo than a basic chain), so it's kind of a moot point. Sol does NOT have a good projectile in the sense that people are used to using projectiles. Gunflame is relatively slow and has relatively low reach, and its main applications are in pressure. Sol's anti-airs are shaky compared to some other characters (5K is good, 6P is decent, average on the whole, if not below), and if you're using VV as your all-purpose AA, you're going to get baited a lot. The only real universally-usable (Corner riotstomp) grounded overhead Sol has is his Dust, which is again kind of average as dusts go and not good compared to a command overhead like slayer 6K or some TKable move that hits high. Again, viable Sol pressure NEEDS gunflame FRC to work well, and a lot of his game revolves around setting up tick wildthrow or aerial rushdown. Point is, Sol is NOT a shoto, he's not basic, and frankly, thinking that way is a great way to build some bad habits. Okay, fair. People coming from streetfighter will probably be able to capitalize on Ky footsie ability better. But it's still a big hit at low levels (Ky is B-tier, so it's not like low damage makes him BAD per se) to not do any damage. Her basic damaging combos are REALLY easy compared to most of the cast. Well, that's the trick: What's easy to me includes learning FRCs, freestyling big combos, and all that nonsense. I wasn't talking about me, I was talking about Joe Everyman. Fact of the matter is, Jam has a lot of universal options (Puffballs, really good 2S, really good f.S, 5K, j.H, big huge pokey moves) that are pretty easy to see the uses of at a low level, and then go use them to win exchanges and get damage. Of course you still have to learn combos to do them, but it's easier than with a lot of other characters to get to an INTERMEDIATE level. This is not as true for Sol/Ky. Right, but Potemkin is easy to EXPLAIN. "I can't beat your projectile!" "Okay, flick it." "I don't know what to do about that move." "Hammerfall through it." Potemkin as a character just simply has OPTIONS that are pretty intuitive. 20F invulnerable backdash, fast command grab for tons of damage, fullscreen knockdown, and a run-replacement charge move with super armor. Sure, grapplers are non-intuitive, but Pot is really solid. Er. So is everyone. It's an offense-driven game, so pressure is good, QED. I'm actually against telling new players to play a lot of characters. This game is hard enough to learn with one character, and sometimes the skillsets don't translate perfectly. Tinkering is great to learn about other characters' tools, but I'd say worry about that once you're at least intermediate and thinking on a metagame level. Pulling punches really only serves to make bad habits, because that's exactly what it does. Like I said, try to specifically condition them out of bad habits if you must, or switch to a character you're no good at, or just hop out of the rotation. Sandbagging isn't going to help them, honestly. No one is really satisfied with winning against someone who isn't going all out. The win only means something if they know they really beat you. Even scrubs can tell. Er, I'm not really the one to ask about this. There are people here who follow the Japanese scene much better than I do, but uh... off the top of my head: ABA: No clue Anji: Keylime, or limekey, or whatever his name was. Does he still even play? Axl: Shuuto, Niiyama, Meru, Udei, Nekomimi (Only recent ones, s/he wasn't always very good), Akira to an extent. Baiken: Sharon? Bridget: Ruu? Chipp: SAMITTO! Dizzy: H.H. Eddie: Ogawa (Duh), Isa Faust: RF? I-No: KO1 Jam: Mike! Johnny: Bleed? Ky: Machaboo? May: Efute Millia: Yeah, Woshige HOS: KAQN, Zero (0) Pochumpkin: FAB! Robot: Dogura, Nezumi Slayer: Niga, Actually, there are a lot of good J-Slayers Sol: No clue, honestly. Testament: SHONEN! Venom: N-O! (This guy and Shonen are probably the best players I've seen period) Zappa: Imo?

Aye. I'm 99% sure I'm going to go... but you know, something could always happen. But you can still FIND ME if I don't go and we have a match.

Troof. Stone's a pro, that's fo sho. Stone: I'll play you for $5. Might sidebet on ya in them mirrors if I have some extra money and someone will match me.

Er, I'm disagreeing with your information. I'm interested in building up the scene too, so I want to have an honest discussion of what you're saying rather than it just be presented in a thread undiscussed. That's why this is a forum. If you want to just say stuff, get a blog and disable comments. The fact of the matter is, a lot of people try to pick up Sol or Ky and either get frustrated, or start picking up extremely scrubby habits and get frustrated when they hit a wall. Hard things to learn about Sol -Your main combo requires specific spacing -Your pokes don't flat out beat things as often as a lot of characters, except VV, which is easy to bait and you get hit hard for doing it. -Your primary pressure game requires an FRC -Your good mixup is for the most part reliant on things like fuzzy guard, tick throws, and quick VV RC stuff. Bad habits you'll pick up with Sol: -Random VV -Random GV -Relying on pressure game that looks solid to scrubs you might play, but is completely useless in high- or even intermediate-level play Hard things about Ky: -Comparatively TERRIBLE damage output. Having played a LOT of scrubs, this gets REALLY frustrating for them REALLY fast. "How come I can do like 5 combos on you and you won't die, and I die in like one?" (On top of the fact that they probably don't know their advanced stuff anyway) -Is a zoning-heavy character in some cases and thus requires some careful thought. -Has a pressure game that's reliant on specific timing and spacing, and you're using your oki to mix up to a greater extent than a good portion of the cast (Meaning you HAVE to get knockdowns). -Due to the above, Ky is harder to succeed with rushing down if you're not familiar with basic fighting game stuff like going for knockdown and Zoning/spacing games. Bad habits to pick up with Ky: -Ending everything with stun dipper. Scrubs won't punish you for this but it's terrible on block. -Spamming greed sever. It's a fine overhead, but playing against weaker players seems to give new blood the idea that it's a really safe, unbeatable move. -Spamming fireball, spamming DP, etc. Things I'm picking up on specifically are things that SEEM GOOD against bad people, and thus get ingrained in their habits. And sure, this will happen to players of any character. Bad habits happen, it's the way of the world. But Why Jam is easier: -Confirmable, easy to execute combo for big damage. Not optimal, but at least worth doing in a real match. -Pokes that are designed to get counterhits, and moves to capitalize on them with. -LOTS of chaining ability. Although high-level jams know what they're doing, it's definitely worth noting that a lot of the character's versatility is in having a broad set of chainable moves. This is something you can pick up on QUICK. -Sure, there are a few bad habits you can pick up (Spam puffball, go for ground loop on block too often, airdash all the time), but there's a lot LESS of it, and if you're dedicated to playing good people, you'll lose these habits a lot faster than a Sol or a Ky who has bad habits. Why Potemkin is also easier: -Big damage for doing just about anything. -Spamming stuff either gets you killed or makes you win. -Some clear guidelines for certain situations. "Yeah, if you bait their reversal with a backdash, you're usually safe." "You can pot buster that." "If they're just standing way over there, slide head and hammerfall break to get in." Anyway, I'd actually discourage leaning toward easier characters unless they specifically ask for them. If they want you to suggest a character, maybe familiarize yourself with basic playstyles of characters and ask what they want to be able to do. NOTE ABOUT THIS: This doesn't mean you should teach them their character, unless you play them yourself. You probably have played a few, and can give misc tips if you know something other (X character)s do in a given situation, but generally you're not as knowledgeable as you think, so point them to videos or DL threads for actually getting down to business and learning their main. EDIT: Some "Teaching" notes. The game should ultimately be something fun that you do. Sure, someone needs to be interested in a game in its own right to get to a high level. But it's really unpleasant to be in a really serious, non-social environment. It's not just about an abstract skill, it's about fun and community as well. Maybe you can sandbag a little, but your goal with a new person is to play the game, not to be a teacher. Helping them get going is just a means to an end. So for fuck's sake, don't hold up the damn rotation to mess around not playing! I'd argue stopping the match to "show you something" is almost never as good a teaching tool as just playing matches, but if you're going to do it, don't do it while other people are waiting! Also, letting people win is a little counterproductive. If you're dominating a rotation, don't lose on purpose, just jump out and let the newer players play each other instead of you. If you want, play a secondary (IE A character you suck at. Almost no one has multiple characters they're tournament-ready with in this game, it's too hard) to give them a fighting chance (Of course, if you're more than one skill tier ahead of them, you'll probably still win, so at least try to be solid. Point of fact: My Jam beats a WHOLE LOT of players. Am I a tournament-competent Jam player? Probably not.) Remember that if you're better than them, they are WATCHING what you do. Even if you suck at a character, if you're winning, they'll assume you know what you're doing with them. Thus, you should probably should avoid playing their character unless you REALLY are confident that you know actual solid stuff with them (Point of fact: You probably don't. If you must do it, go BASIC so you don't show them stupid habits.) At any rate, just flat dropping out of the rotation is a friendly way to avoid getting everyone frustrated. Go to the bathroom, get some food, just take a break, whatever. You can make winning fun and also not reward bad habits by giving away wins. If you're going to sandbag, do it in a directed way. Identify a single bad habit that they have and DESTROY them for it, but in a way that makes it ultimately easier to beat you. For example, if you're playing a Sol player who always DPs on wakeup, always run up and block on oki. It's a sub-optimal playstyle, because you never get to oki him, but you're also probably going to win until he stops doing it. Maybe get thrown or something a few times before you start playing normally again. That way, you're using a combination of Negative Punishment (They stop DPing, they stop getting baited and killed) and Positive Reinforcement (They vary their wakeup, they get to beat you sometimes) to change their habits for the better.

I'mna saaaaay... Bullshit. 1. Sol and Ky are not the easiest characters in this game. Especially Ky. A lot of beginner players have a hard time doing well with a character that has to know how to beat stuff and doesn't do a lot of damage. 2. If someone's "headstrong" and don't want to switch characters, that's a good thing. Even the easier characters in the game (Jam, Potemkin, May) have learning curves, and honestly the entire act of "suggesting" a character to play should ONLY happen if they can't choose on their own.