GKHiryu

Zato out of S? How so? I get it that he got a few adjustments, but they hardly qualify as "nerfs". Even if puddles are not as good he still gets a lot out of every drill.

Doesn't the change to 5P imply easier Buster setups as well?

2/27/2014 My bet is that it's some kind of pre-master footage.

Add me please. EU - Bedman/Ramlethal. I'm usually on about 2-3 days per week around 7-8 pm gmt in EU East rooms. Still, I welcome any challenge, so PMs on DL or friendinvites on PSN are ok anytime.

You need to frequent the forums more bro'. I did a post about j.K > j.D two weeks ago. Didn't bring myself to make any vids though, so I'm eager to watch what Sylintassassin brought up and see what the japanese have come up with.

One thing I would suggest is not always using seals and tasks as method of direct attack. Consider this little example. You confirm into task B, opponent will soon wake up and you have to do something about it: - you can do DVB YRC and as he wakes up attempt some 8-way dash shanenigans. This way you can directly mix them up and hopefully confirm into another Task B or Task C ender. This is good and preferable at first, but the opponent will get used to it quickly and even if you're very familiar with your options it will be hard to catch him every time - you can, however, DVB YRC, throw Task A and then just go in with blockstrings. It's a much easier situation for reversal bait and you now have two seals set up, plus Task A will cover you on its return if the enemy decides to block. From here you should be able to DVB again and after that maybe even have enough time for DVA to extend pressure even more. - you could even DVB YRC, jump high up and fall down with air Task C, or jump task A into airdash into task C. This can also be applied to a neutral game, for example jump Task A, then fish for either j.S or far S > 6H, if you time it well projectile return could give you enough time for DVA and again extend pressure. While we're at it - NEVER FORGET YOUR THROW. I think if you work on having very solid token setup/returning Task A cover/Deja Vu cancel game you could pressure to the point where the enemy doesn't take much damage, but gets impatient from being on the defense. Then he will press the wrong button and you can score a lot of damage. While that sounds like dry theory I noticed that only when I started to utilize this approach I could legitimately annoy and exploit mistakes of solid players. tl;dr - sometimes playing it safer and slower might open up many more mixup possibilities than going for obvious mixup chances.

I'd argue that Bedman is a rather well rounder character. He has tools for most situations (good low profile in 2S, good scare tactic with 2/3H, a projectile, deja vu for oki, 8 way dash, solid throw game, quasi-reversal in the form of dash). It's not that he doesn't have tools (except for true reversal ofc), it's just that he doesn't have moves that he can throw out recklessly.

From my exp it's a matter of knockdown timing. Of the opponent only just hit the ground you will get RRC. I guess it may be because he's otg-able and as long as that state lasts you'll always get RRC, which makes sense. For Bedman it just means you have to learn to delay Deja Vu. I suggest practicing by doing Task B followed by DVB yrc attempt. To practice proper yrc timing is also useful, because if you do DVB/DVC too early not only do you waste meter on RRC but also lose oki completely as the moves tend to whiff.

I hope you find time and elaborate a bit on that. I'm curious to read some counter arguments to Bedman's low-tier status, as nobody provided any yet. If you plan on writing that, I just want to point out that I never said you can't win with Bedman. I know you can. My point was that it always takes more work for BE than his opponent to win (aside from the mentioned matchups).

How is it unfounded? The character has very poor defensive options that are only slightly offset by his high defense. His hurtbox is tall and wide and his moveset is lacking when compared to other characters. Bedman is a thoroughly thought out character. So much so that while he feels complete in training mode, actual versus battles quickly show you that he lacks that signature GG "crazy" factor. He's too fair imo. He can zone you out, but gets no momentum out of that. He can combo you but does little damage. He can put an hour long pressure on you but he'll always have to chose between tight pressure without real mixups or hard to block stuff that you can just poke him out of any day of the week. In my experience the only matchups where it's the opponent who has to work hard are Potemkin and Leo, with Slayer being rather even. Other than that in any matchup that you play you quickly get the feeling that the opponent can easily outplay you with a move o two that Bedman can't counter directly and you have to find ways to avoid it while BE himself has none of that.

Why do you feel Axl and Slayer are now ranked lower than Bedman? I think if these two are now ranked as low as Pot, then the Bed should be there too. His damage potential is much lower than Slayer's, but he makes up for it (kinda, ehhh) with neutral, zoning and more variety in offense. However while Slayer may surprise you less his approach is more solid (i.e. less possibilities to poke him out of blockstrings/mixup). I can't honestly compare BE to Axl, I barely know his options.

I've only been playing agains very good players recently, so I figured they're just surprisingly good at adapting to my 6H crossup game. But you're all saying that ASW programmed 6H to be able to hit opponent after BE switches sides with him, but still count as non-crossup? I... guess I'm done.

The attack moves a certain distance forward, during part of that movement Bedman disappears. As such, if the opponent is close enough BE will reappear on the other side. You can check it out yourself by just standing right in front of opponent (outside throw range ofc) and using 6H, it will then cross up as well. The reason it doesn't happen after 236K is because you recover before the opponent does, so although you are in throw range you cannot throw, as the opponent is still in blockstun. Simple as that. EDIT: I've never been in a situation where 6H can be blocked in any way, I don't believe that is actually possible. This isn't SF4 after all.

Important thing about j.D is that you can chain into it. I've come up with a pressure string that works best in corner using chain to j.D. On wakeup you can do ADF j.K > j.D, then use the bounce for j.H. You will hit with j.D very low to the ground, so as j.H comes out it will be very close to a tight blockstring. Ofc it can be beaten and the timing/spacing is dependent on million of factors so I recommend checking it out in training before attempting it in a match. Still, if you hit with j.H you can confirm with land > 2K into whatever. If they block you're still in very good situation. So far it worked well if I already used ADF j.K > j.S a few times and want to mix it up a little.

Yep, me too. In fact after learning Bedman's basics I've decided that there's no point in playing him on stick, so I've made a hitbox just to play him effectively. As a disclaimer - I know BE can be played effectively on a stick, but I have major trouble with his airdashes and decided that it's just easier to spend 10 hours making a hitbox than it is spending a month to learn proper hand motions. After switching to hitbox I have no problems with any inputs whatsoever.

How do you feel about non-Task enders? In training mode I've come up with this nice string: adf > j.K > j.s > land > 2K > c.S > f.S > 2S > 2H > 236P This by itself is stupid - With that good a starter one should always go for Task B or Task C ender. Usefulness of this sting shines during regular matches, however. I often find myself hitting the opponent just outside of string into 5H > Task B. I've now conditioned myself to always go to 2S > 2H if I notice that distance is too big. If the opponent recovers in the air (as he should), TaskA covers me and should he decide to just block it I can try to establish a new offensive. So far I haven't noticed any particular downsides to this route so I feel like I'm forgetting something.

Only four frames to be fair. It is something that you may use once a match out of the blue to keep the opponent on his toes. I just wanted to point out that, well, it's just an overall bad move with some strenghts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnaOo_16Zt8 Not the newest nor my/my opponent's best, but it's a good slice of how I play. It's from about a week ago. Note: I may misuse 6P sometimes, I blame lag Self critique: - I've already improved on Slayer matchup. I'm using counters to his 214K consistently and rely more on knowledge/reaction than reads. - I need to perform offense more fluently, sometimes I jump cancel without purpouse in mind, sometimes I linger in airdash stance etc. - Use proper combos when I'm in a range where TaskB/C will not hit. - Keep my cool. That I know of and am working on. Anything you wish to share with me is welcome.

Don't rely on dash as means of reversal. It's really risky to use in actual match. However, if you know what you're doing it's also an important tool. For example it takes care of all of Slayer's options after 214K except for S. I say it's best not used as an instinct - read, you'll eat much more than you think you would and just get frustrated. EDIT: So far I haven't seen it mentioned - 5H HITS BEHIND BE!

Going back to Bedman discussion. I think he's the stellar example of "loyalists only" character. Unless you put in a lot of work and lose a metric ton of matches to get the hang of his neutral and defensive options there's no way you can be threatening with him. On the plus side, he does require noticeably less training mode time, hell the guy literally has 5 combos to learn and all of them require less than ten inputs each. That said, BE is also player dependant. While he offers a lot of options thanks to airdashes and jump cancel pressure, if the opponent is familiar with those you'll be hard pressed not to get beaten out of the air. To cut my rambling - Bedman's offense is very risky. Every jump cancel you need to perform to shorten distance is a grave risk and you cannot score more than one free mixup after knockdow. Very strong character if you gamble right. With that said - many people without proper knowledge will rate him higher than he already is due to lack of matchup knowledge. Hell I still get free combos off of people pressing buttons while waking up into deja vu taskB. Bedman is however very easy to break if you know the matchup. I think he'll never escape B tier in current balance.

Shadow Ninja beat me to it, but let me put it this way: Task A' teleports you to the point of impact. That is, if the point of the projectile hitting the opponent is in front of the character's axis, you get teleported to the front. If it hits behind the axis, you cross through.

I think it hasn't been mentioned yet. If you're really hellbent on opening the opponent up during blockstring, you can try 88 YRC j.K j.S or just J.whatever. If you YRC the sirdash stance without inputting anything else BE will quickly fall straight down. Now I know that YRC gives them time to react, but it still seems a good tool to keep them in check, because you can also just input j.K > land for a tick throw attempt.

Woah that infinite deja vu tokens bug is some awesome tech. I'm sure it will be patched out as it is clearly a bug, but for now it can be easily exploited. I mean 632146H is + on block, so as long as you time it close to the opponent you get free Deja Vu. In corner, that can be deadly. @Necrothereaper - I find it very useful to YRC task A if I use it to end blockstring. Bedman can already be airborne and 886 > j.K'ing as the opponent leaves blockstun.

I'm not sure if I get you right, but... j.S for the very wide hitbox?

@ Alkipot - this is what happens if you don't press any direction after j.8. Think of it as "airdash stance". Just wanna throw back to previous comment suggesting we start compiling our knowledge: * 5H (1) > 236P > YRC - It's possible if 5H was blocked. Think of that as a way to kinda-sorta reset pressure after wrapping up blockstring. RC has to be delayed for YRC to come out. * 9...81 - Very important move for mid-screen oki game. With enough delay between jump and airdash you can cross up and then come back. With DVB set up it gets nasty. j.K or j.S are both possible here as your attacks on the way down * 886 > j.K > j.S - again very important attack pattern. covers a lot of distance, hits crouching, is a very reliable hit confirm and a natural combo. *7 > 236P or backdash > 7 > 236P - safe, universal match openers Options after throw: * 236K - Good way to put pressure, guaranteed block string. * 2369K (TK Task A') - Even better way to put pressure on the opponent, also THIS HITS CROUCHING FAUST * 2369S (TK Task B) - No free pressure here, but sets up task token on top of opponent. He'll have to respect you now right? Right? Guys? (nah I'm kidding, it's legit) These are some late night thoughts, but I'm sure what I mentioned here works and is useful on all levels.