TheArm05

I wasn't saying always pick a top tier. I never once said "Don't pick a low tier character". I said that if the character you like the most ends up being top 3 you should be rejoicing not going "Damn I need to pick another character to not be a tier whore". Having fun is absolutely the primary goal. However I can confidently say as a Liz player who traveled all over the country in P4U1 that getting dumped on by mediocre (Mits/Chie) players who then proceed to get bodied by other people who you beat/go even with is NOT FUN. I knew she was shit yet I kept grinding away in training mode and casuals to try to overcome matchups and tiers. It didn't happen. Two things need to be established about low tier characters. 1. You forfeit all right to complain about your character being shit 2. You have to be realistic about your odds in a tournament. Also I strongly disagree with low tier character players having more room to improve than someone playing a high tier one. High tier characters have more options or higher rewards. More options to explore = greater chance to improve yourself as a player.

I only watched their first set. They won(!!) vs a Yukiko team. It was some fraudulence though as the Yukiko team was kind of wrecking them but just choked. At least in that set there wasn't anything interesting shown. It was mostly just Liz getting hit by fans all day until one of the Yukiko players derped and ran into 5B/5C > dropped combo resets like 4 times.

KYH still crushing dreams. That character looks so oppressive. All the decent ones I see just dominate everyone. I want to play Railgun (and I might anyway since I won't have anyone to play either way) but if I was serious about this game I would for sure pick KYH. All of this is assuming I ever have the chance to play this game.

For the first j.C I just do it while Az is rising. I don't do it instantly but it is well before the height of the jump. After the airdash just do the second j.C when Az is clearly on the other side of the character so that he turns around for the j.C. You can't really do it too early as long as Azrael does it in the right direction since j.C with Hornet active has like forever hitstun.

This makes me so sad that people think like this. You should be rejoicing you have a good character. Play him and crush people then laugh when they call you a tier whore (because you aren't). Whenever I see a character I would have picked anyway AND they are top tier I start partying. Fighting games are competitive and having a top tier just gives you an advantage from the start. In the end it is about making the other guy eat dirt not honor.

Don't you have to use the j.ABC route for the 5A > Aerial combos? I usually go for j.BC off of 5B but I don't trust 5A > j.B. Alex Azrael j.C has CRAZY hitstun. You can almost always get away with delaying j.D unless the combo is exceptionally long. As long as you have the opponent slightly above you j.D shouldn't whiff. It is really just a matter of getting use to the correct height for his air combo. Keep practicing you will get it.

C tier: Liz

Is it even an overhead? If so I could see it used as a better starter for 2B OMC j.2B IOH maybe. Also depending on the hitbox beneath it maybe we could do ambiguous crossup j.2B OMB > combo. I also want to know what the CH stun on it is. If it CH's aerial opponents to the floor it could be really crazy for blowing people up for trying to jump out of the corner. Lots of question marks about that move and no real answers atm.

The double weakpoint valiant combo is only doable relatively early in a Normal starter combo. The 5A > j.A part likes to drop for me on longer combos. Something like corner 5B > 2C > 2B > TC > Valiant >6 5C > 6C >6 j.C > 6B >6 Hornet > 5A > j.ABC > j.D should work. I don't see why it would be character specific it worked fine on everyone I tried it on. The trick is to get them as high up on the wall as you can while still having hornet connect.

I plan on maining Vatista but I definitely agree that there are SO MANY amazing looking characters in this game. It is going to be really hard to decide on a sub between Sion, Yuzu, Orie, or even Chaos. They all look so unique and fun. I need to chill my hype on this game though it is still 3 months out haha.

Meh the Yuzu army will dissipate rather quickly. Stance characters scare away bandwagoners quickly. Also you have to pick your buttons pretty carefully with her and she has no reversal. The Gordeau army is what I truly fear. Grim Reaper is Grim Reaper no matter who is mashing it.

This is so true. Whenever I am watching a Liz video and she gets away with 5C > 2C on block without losing a card or the opponent gets grabbed by 5C (block) > 5D I just X out of the video.

On D Maragidyne set up Liz's only real mixup is jump > late j.A or empty jump > 2A. It isn't great but it is something. Oki is the term used for what you do to an opponent after knocking them down as they are trying to get up. 236A is WAY faster than 236B and allows for the combo of 5C > 236A > OMC (Hold 6) > 5B > stuff. That Shuffle Time combo is worthless. It only works off of a Fatal Counter when they are directly in the corner. You have to microdash 5A after shuffle time (input 66 5A really fast) to pick it up. As far as IADs go the best way to do them is input 956 as fast as possible. It is relatively difficult and just requires practice. No real tricks to use there it just has to be done fast

5C gets shitloads of damage (in P4A1 at least) on any CH, any crouch hit, any hit close ish to corner with meter, and any air hit. Anyway I am obviously oversimplifying the neutral struggle with Liz but the point still stands and is not limited to just the given examples.

Pretty low unless they get some ridiculous sales numbers (they won't). THEY BETTER NOT REGION LOCK THIS IS ALL I AM SAYING.

I really liked the Garu loops in P4A1. Garu loops were some of the few Liz combos that were actually difficult and hitting double and triple Garu combos was soooo satisfying. I am pretty biased though because I spent more time practicing garu loops than anything else in any fighting game lol. Also I don't think Liz's tier placement is solely based on three bad matchups. Liz's tier placement is based on how incredibly risky and volatile her playstyle is. Liz's neutral boils down to this most of the time. She presses a normal (5B,2B,5C) and they get hit = praise Jesus. She presses a normal (5B,2B,5C) and they block = ok. She presses a normal (5B,2B,5C) and it whiffs = Massive catastrophe. This inconsistency combined with better players being increasingly harder to hit as the game gets older is what makes Liz shit imo. Honestly she has problems against quite a few characters and good players don't get hit by her. None of that was changed in 1.1 as far as I can tell.

Fuck yeah. Midscreen enders suck so bad vs Koko right now. Really glad they fixed that nonsense. I doubt it but does TCL > IAD j.AB > 5B route work on Koko in 1.1? Got some stuff to try in training mode tonight either way.

Decent buffs for sure but I have the feeling that this really doesn't address any of Liz's original problems. It sounds like we are getting damage but we had that in P4A already. They didn't change any of the recovery or speed on any of her normals. She is still going to be crazy unsafe and risky. They still did not give her a real counter assault or DP. They are giving us band-aids and painkillers when we have gaping wounds. Here is to hoping she is actually a force to be feared in awakening. That is still her best chance at being a decent character. Also Chie 5A is back to +1 so RIP getting out of Chie pressure again. I seriously can't believe they reverted that change.

I plan on maining Ramlethal but I won't lie if she is shit I will drop her and not think twice about it. P4A taught me a valuable lesson about playing low tiers. It is just frustrating and unrewarding. I am going to do whatever I can to never say "I can win this tournament as long as I don't run into X character" again. That being said this character looks like a lot of fun and she does look like she has a lot of potential upside. There aren't really any other Xrd characters that are exciting to me so far (RIP ABA) so I am hopeful Val is a character I get to have fun with.

As far as the teleport dash vs no teleport dash I think that a normal dash is better honestly. Normal dash means she can microdash which is always strong. Teleport dashes are good for mixups but as far as movement goes they can really be a pain especially when trying to cover distance for a punish. Either way I am really excited to see how this character ends up. Can't wait for some combo vids and some footage of a JP god playing her.

Gustaf is -2 on IB. So you will lose if you both mash 5A. As far as approaching with Azrael that is the hard part in most matchups. Against Rachel being patient is good. Growler eats Lobelia and prevents the pole formation. Growler eats George free too but most Rachels won't use it in neutral. Pumpkin is what you really have to worry about since you can't really reliably Growler it and you are so large. Once you have some phalanx stocks you can punish grounded summons/lobelias and move forward. If you get in on her she crumbles. Hakumen has you beat in neutral so it is somewhat hard. His j.C crushes most approaches and counters are really annoying for Azrael. This match you need to play the aggressor but don't go crazy. Mix in throws more than usual on oki/when going for mixups. Don't fuck with Agito either. Otherwise just play solid and it isn't too bad. Tried to keep that brief since these are matchup thread things. Post in those threads and we can go in more detail.

I will be trying to make it out to Evo. Haven't gotten tickets or anything yet but I should be able to go.

I can't believe how hard they nerfed Mind Charge. Why build the character around awakening then nerf Mind Charge? I guess hoping for a full invuln Mind Charge buff may have been a little much but no blue life when using the equivalent of the current version is absurd. Even Ex Mind Charge has shit startup. Man if we could have just got 2C charge. j.C CH groundbounce, and 5C BD cancel with current Liz we would have been (at least somewhat) in there. I'm going to the Narukami army btw. I am done trying hard in Persona. I will still give Liz a shot but I know I am going to hate it when I actually try to pull together a combo from all her destroyed combo routes.

So the last two tournaments I have gone to I have lost to a Litchi player (sG). I played him in casuals as well both tournaments and he mostly just blows me up. Litchi seems to me to be stronger at neutral both in the air and on the ground and any hit she gets leads to you in the corner getting mixed up. At least Litchi can't just autopilot staff oki on us thanks to Growler. How do you guys play this matchup? Go hard with IAD j.B? Play patiently and try to fight her off of you? Attempt to poke her out? If I do get a hit I can run away with the match sometimes like any other but her neutral is so good and Tsubame is so strong it can be hard to take control and keep it. I will be spending the next couple weeks watching match vids of her and seeing how others play it but I was curious if anyone had any other tips. I will work on my Tsubame safejumps as Tage recommended and apply those as well. Oh one thing I was able to figure out is that 3D BLOWS UP itsuu. If you see them opening with that move or you read it CH 3D on itsuu is absolutely devastating.

I agree with Errol. Backdashing carries such little risk to it. Hell you aren't even CH state during them at any point so some moves that should blow them up (Azrael 3D) end up being minor punishes. Backdashing on wakeup in the corner should logically never be an option yet I get away with backdash > 5A all the time as Azrael. Koko mashes backdash on every wakeup and a good percentage of the time I pick a move to try to beat it she recovers and can block or the invuln ignores it. Honestly though there are so many characters who have such absurdly strong mixup/pressure that I fear the removal of even more defensive tools. It is a careful balance really.