Mike Z

Ernest, my thanks to you. I'm going to be linking to that "go analyze your matches afterward" post forever. This thread is really good! Looking forward to correcting your Ky v. Pot. (^.-)

I'm not sure where you got the idea that the BB team suddenly knew what they were doing. :^P But you can't get mad until it's been really broken down.

The way that Tager played after that round makes me wonder if both air busters were messed-up 720s. :^P

You don't need diagonals in BB (and if you did need 'em then that weird kara-720 thing wouldn't work) but the directions do need to be in order. SF4's problems are all SF4's problems.

Oh hey, doing an Astral finally locks out their burst as soon as it starts. Took 'em long enough.

Tager players have been asking for Sledge Break since CT. It would seriously solve like 90% of all his problems. It ain't happenin', by Mori's choice. Magnetism 'break' USED to be 5D, when it had good pull and pulled the entire time, before and after active. But y'know, that went away right before I stopped playing (not entirely unrelated!). This is some of that "Why I have no respect for BB's design team" stuff I was skipping before. They have no clear goal, and don't approach problems properly game-wide. That new combo system, ugh...

You know, not every Capcom game has an invincible knockdown period. Right after he said "YOU TEIGAA PUREIA?" I know this isn't the place to go into game design discussion, so I won't, but man...

I know this is video posting only, but I gotta disagree. JC on 6A was amazing even before he had any armor. I thought about it as equivalent to JC on Pot's close and far Slash, it let you decide really far into a blockstring that you wanted to stop. It also made the mixup lots better because you could use the JC to special cancel super late.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoeM_zDGRCM#t=3m51s YOOOOOOOOO.

Then you don't really appreciate what conditioning a person is. :^S I certainly have chosen goals. I make it a point, when learning a character, to look for several "places to do stupid/risky things so that my opponent can learn I do stupid/risky things", places where it looks like I'm just making kinda bad reaction choices without thinking that don't really get me hurt all that much, so that I can do the proper thing when it counts and score a free punish. They're totally planned in advance and I make use of them frequently. In fact, I find it much harder to condition someone based on something that happens "in the flow of the match". Some examples: Potemkin - if you watch any old AC matches you'll see I frequently do Heavenly on wakeup with about 75% meter even if they haven't jumped. It's invincible on startup, safe if whiffed, and very hard to punish on reaction, so it's not as risky as it looks like it is...but what it does do is train them hard to stand on the ground and expect a superflash in those conditions, which top players (even Japanese) will learn in about 2 repeats of the situation especially if they get hit. What you don't notice is that, with surprising regularity, it later gets me a free wakeup Buster with 75% meter, enough for FRC 2S 2H Heavenly. Makoto - this one's dumb but tailored specifically for 3s. Unlike every other Makoto ever, I usually do corner EX rushpunch, F+Short reset, then j.medium axe kick. Most people are conditioned to jump or DP to escape low/throw in that situation, so they'll get hit by the axe kick at least once. Axe kick is very hard to parry, beats or trades with DPs or jump moves and lets me combo for the kill, and is safe if blocked, so it's a good weird option there. If it keeps working, great, but if they end up blocking it then I get a free grab later, and if they end up jumping up to parry it I get a free sj.RH later. Tager - uh. I had a bunch in CT but I can't remember any of them offhand and I haven't played seriously since then. Go BB. The key is picking something that LOOKS dumb and LOOKS like you're on autopilot, but is neither as risky as it appears nor as reflex-y as it appears. Even a move that's super risky if expected can be virtually unpunishable if used correctly.

You get 2D -> Gadget pull. :^P Yeah, I'm not super hype for CP Tager either, but it'll be forever until we can play so it doesn't matter yet. (^.^) This is what I'm here for - it's not a mixup and it requires a completely different set of skills like being attuned to how the OTHER person is learning during your match. A mixup is basically "do this and then choose from these following options, varying your choice by what you think/know of the opponent", whereas conditioning your opponent is dynamic and works differently every time and against every person. It's training the other person, in a very short period of time, so that you can have ONE virtually-guaranteed opportunity when you need it most. And it's amazingly rewarding because you get to make the other person look dumb. Hehehe.

He can also do it before a fight, don't forget his intro. Maybe he just learned combat from Oro/Akuma/Iori/Indalecio/whoever else is in the "Next time I'll use my FULL POWER!" school of thought.

You can link to times in Twitch videos, btw, you just have to use ?t= instead of the #t= that Youtube wants. http://www.twitch.tv/central804/b/342583745?t=3h10m43s See?

Hot damn, that's COOL! <3 Now you can see why HOS can FD to avoid slidehead, and all the little extra hitboxes they added in moves when they didn't make contact where expected. (Some of 'em look kinda sloppy, heh.) It's also interesting to see how they handled things like Pot's 2H or 2S, where the hit area morphs over time.

That...that's...retarded. Which I realize is not a slur I should ever use anywhere, but it PERFECTLY sums up my opinion. Jam as much damage as you can into an ACTUAL TIME LIMIT? Suddenly I have no desire to play the game at all.

Can you explain that a bit better, or link somewhere it's laid out? What's the 'time limit'? There has to be proration of some kind per hit, otherwise infinites...? Hmm. Makes me wonder if they finally fixed the 10 different same-move-proration moves in one combo bug then. And somehow, makes me want to play the game less. :^P

After watching that vid, to me this game sounds awful. :^P Looks like Yumura was as surprised as we are that 6C doesn't ground bounce vs standing. Maybe 6C->2D? And low air j.D in corner gives enough time to connect 5D that late in the combo? That's nuts. Plus only one of those hits in the Overdrive 'combo' didn't actually work, which means we get quite a bit off 4D there.

I know it has nothing to do with gameplay, but that diagonal Spark Bolt looks awful. They didn't even bother to draw like the 3 angled-back shot frames he needed. Ah well. I wonder if 2C xx XYH, 5C works now.

Circ, Robo is right. (O.o) From frame data, Pot's 2K is a Lv2 attack which gives it 12f of hitstun vs standing. [link] From Pot's frame data, 2D and far S have 12f startup, whereas 2H has 13f. [link] 2K->far S and 2K->2D both combo, but 2K->2H doesn't. Meaning that in GG frame data an attack with 12f of hitstun combos into an attack with 12f of startup, so the last 'startup' frame is really the first active frame. BUT HOW DOES THIS WORK WITH YOUR VISUAL RESULTS? Well, I'll tell ya, since it works the same way in SG so I can explain it. (^.^) In lots of games such as 3s/MvC2/SG and now apparently GG, frame 12 is the first active frame but the hit detection is done after the characters are advanced on that frame, so it SHOWS the hit on frame 13 since that's when everyone reacts...but if you held Back to block on frame 13, you would still have been hit since the hit actually came out and made contact on the previous frame. Make some sense? So if they did the frame data by gauging it visually when it looks like it hits, they would list the attack as having 12f of startup because visually the opponent reacts on 13, but what's really happening inside the engine is that the opponent is getting hit on frame 12 after everyone is advanced, thus the reaction happens visually on the next frame. Frame 12 is the last frame of hitstun (so on 13 they would be in idle stance if the they weren't hit), but it is also the first frame the next attack goes active, though the actual "did anyone hit" calculation is done after all the sprites are advanced for that frame. [edit] And so, in Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus Reload (whew), Pot should be able to do 5P->2S vs air.

See, this is why I asked. I thought SF treats it that way, but GG treats it as startup is never active...I always get confused.

5P 13f untech = combos into far S, 2H, and j.K, as well as APB and HPB. And the new 1f-faster 2S?! I forget if 13f startup in GG terms means hits on 14, or hits on 13. 2P hitting low is nice, it's long but 5K is still faster, hah. 6H, "initial prorate" means only when starting a combo, right? Not forced max anytime the move hits? So then comboing into it is still same dmg. Heh heh, faster IK activation... Is 2D->Giganter possible without OTGing?

So...there's no full list of changes yet? Comboing far S off APB is new.

That was pretty awesome. 20 people, 3 stations, and Peacock's VA. Looks like it'll be happening next week. :^) Thanks to all who came!

Do you like Skullgirls? DO YOU LIKE CUPCAKES? Well then... Introducing Salty Cupcakes, an event that combines Skullgirls, cupcakes, boba, and not-being-held-at-my-apartment into one big desserty night. When: Thursdays 7pm-??, beginning next week, September 13th. Where: Frootsii, a 24-hr casual boba/snack/dessert hangout located at 14318 Ventura Blvd in Sherman Oaks. There's a big comfy couch, many types of delicious drinks and food to order, and parking underground. Also tables, chairs, a floor, lights, and lots and lots of breathable air. I will be bringing two PS3 setups (and possibly a 360), all patched. Bring sticks, and if you have a lagless monitor it would be much appreciated. If bloodlust dictates, I will run a tournament starting at 9:30 or so. If this is even moderately successful I'd like to make it a weekly event, so get off your duff and show up. (link to SRK thread)

Ey, so this thread is dead as heck. Maybe I should try taking over, because I want to play GG. WHO WANTS A GG TOURNAMENT TODAY (July 22nd) AT 5 PM? Tell ya what, I'll show up from 5-6, and if we don't get any people by 6 then I'll consider it a huge failure. (^.^) I'll be out of town next weekend, but I'm up for organizing one in two weeks (Aug 4th) as well.