Errol

Oh I can totally see it might not be worth the risk if you can't do it guaranteed. I do see hakumen players screw up and try to 2d the frog but it didn't go active yet. comet cannon doesn't move though, if it's on top of you, you can 2d it, it'll be active on your wakeup, just mash it, that's all there is to it. if the comet cannon is placed so that it doesn't hit you on wakeup, then things are a little different. Makotos can place it so it won't hit you but if you press 2a or something you'll get hit. maybe even this doesn't work in EX because of 6d moving him forward. but one way or another, the istuation is still that none of the makotos use their projectile oki on him on wakeup, and I won't do it on tsubaki either I bet.

what are you trying to tell me psyco. are you trying to tell me no makoto players use comet cannon oki on Hakumen because they don't realize he can't counter it anymore? as far as I know, the height of a projectile has nothing to do with whether you'd be able to counter it.

In theory, that works, because it does keep directional inputs in the buffer. In practice, I think this is kind of like Justice doing unlimited missile spam with a macro vs without a macro. I don't think you have much time where you can get a DP to come out while you are holding 1. So you would have to be inputing a dp shortly before where they could be a gap in a blockstring, and returning to 1 and pressing C when the gap would appear (you don't have many frames where this works.. BB's buffer is not huge like KOF, say). And then if there wasn't a gap, you gotta repeat for where the next gap is... and I mean.. You need to be aware of where all the gaps could be, and you need to input flawlessly just before every one of them. In some cases, those gaps can come very frequently. For instance a Bang, Platinum, or Taokaka chaining 2as. throw in trying to IB too? it's just much easier said than done. hmm. some more. If you want a dp to come out if there's a gap but if you're not given a gap to still be blocking, basically, you have to be inputting your dp timed to the gap. However, when you are inputting the DP, there are still 3 frames where you aren't blocking, at the minimum. and a low can still come during those 3 frames. You're trying to input a dp so that a dp comes out if tsubaki's 2b>2bb was late chained (where there would be a gap)? Well, if 2bb wasn't late chained.. you just got hit. I think the buffer is too small for you to be inputting the DP early enough to avoid that.. theory... in practice I know I hit people with lows all the time when I know they must've been trying to mash DPs or supers, etc.

the rapid cancel was to make it not prorate. I know I'm stating the obvious. He can RC his back throw after 1 hit, which gets 700 damage and starts a completely unprorated combo. The back throw is not overdrive cancelable, the forward and air throws are. Granted, it seems like it kind of doesn't matter - RC = Longer OD, OD gives heat, OD cancel = shorter OD, more stars off the bat. But you get 700 damage off the RC. Throws are a "Short" Combo too. They are supposed to be jab combo length, and theoretically that should limit their damage somewhat. Whatever.

Yeah, pretty much this is it I guess.

also note that makoto has to end combos early, losing damage, to try to take projectile oki. So yeah, still the only character she won't be running projectile oki on as far as I know. give hakumen a free orb, lose damage, there's no benefit to it. It does make a difference. There's a simple way to prove it. How quickly can someone input a DP? The answer, the theoretical fastest possible DP input, is going to be 3 frames (frame one: 6, frame two: 2, frame three: 3 + C). If you try to react to things to dp them, this has an effect. The alternative is for you to to be mashing the motion and just press the button. But if you're mashing the motion, then you can end up being hit by lows. I think that should show that it would make a difference even at the highest level. It can make a more significant difference at lower levels. I'm pretty sure I don't input DPs in 3 frames. Counters may not be so exceptional against crossups anymore. Maybe he doesn't catch people hitting him from behind anymore? I know his hitboxes got nerfed. rather than being 'frame 1', the thing I thought made them exceptional against crossups was the fact that they didn't care if you were crossed up or not, just if you got hit, or not. and of course, there are ways of dealing with counters.. but should still keep in mind the difference that you can mash counters in blockstun until there is a gap with no risk of getting hit. If you try to do the same with a DP, you could get hit by a low.

psycho... >last i checked C buttons dont work when i projectile is right in hakumens face. less you know something i dont? >they are probably scared of 2D countering the projectile but thats pretty iffy at best. 5d will not work especially on makotos stationary orb since its 5f start up. You can counter projectile oki on demand, it's easy to see and do. >Really stupid idea. >ill re iterate, its situational at best, you may as well just 5/2A them instead. W/e, you have an option to counter overheads if you want to use it. and you yukikaze a lot on wakeup man. >its minus on block meaning the enmy can still meaty us regardless. >which means they still have the advantage >which means we are still stuck blocking anyway >which means its not safe unsafe means something can be punished. if you do a counter, you cannot be punished for it. By your logic, a neutral tech is unsafe. no, it isn't. If you counter projectile oki, you don't get out of facing wakeup mixup necessarily. IF they block the counter, then you have to face mixup. But you get to face that mixup with an extra orb. So why would I do projectile oki on Hakumen. It just gives you a free orb.

would there be a region restriction on this? we don't know how the netplay is but I'm gonna assume that east coast to west coast will suck as usual

all i know is next time they're playing casuals at my offline scene I'm picking justice and hopping in. hold down the macro and mash 22 right? got it scumbag here.

no, it is not a reversal. it is in CP.

relius backdash in CP is probably better to have than a DP, and probably by a pretty large margin. His defense is pretty much garbage in EX but different story in CP. at least the fraudversal prevents hard punishing for never blocking. can't ever do 5c to hit jump outs. it sometimes actually worked even when it shouldn't, but whatever. Platinum = Tsubaki max corner damage(2500) most wakeups.

It would be funnier if it just turned him into Hakumen and then he did an OD combo.

made the fraudversal work when it pretty much shouldn't, ever.

GGs. that 1 bar is lol.

just wondering, do you really think people won't be able to see the difference between someone doing it with a macro vs normally? and in the event that someone actually does, it's actually a really simple matter to get them to do it without macros to prove they can do it without macros? granted, the overall button macro thing seems broken, but enforceability on justice's missile glitch is not actually a reason to disbar macros IMO.

I don't think it is practical enough that you will see it without macros. and just saying no multiple missiles on the screen would cut it.

pausing during matches is probably illegal right?

it seems like it is immediately obvious for Justice, I don't know about others.

FGC / ESPORTS has a history of banning specific things like glitches and such down to the little details. It's not an issue.

I really feel your pain

>no more getting out of projectile oki who wants to give hakumen free orbs? people still don't use projectile oki on hakumen much that I've seen. goro skips it. >no more countering overheads on wakeup yukikaze >unsafe on block fully invulnerable until recovered, how is that unsafe? >grab range nerfed everyone's grab range nerfed. bang can complain about grab range nerf

2c also basically hits behind lambda and is extremely active. tsubaki's 2c hitbox is just forward so it gets dashed over, or slightly avoided (like valk movement) by really close crossups, all the time. in CP the tendency is to use DP instead of 2c..

because lambda is a swiss army knife of anti-airs tsubaki anti-air got nerfed pretty hard in CP though. Litchi got her old anti-air.

they erred on the other side with tsubaki, hitbox all over the place

this needs fixing too