Airk

It's nice to see Izayoi starting to WIN some stuff in some of these videos. A little disappointed that Arcsys seems to have created YET ANOTHER dubiously useful 'mode change' super though. Hopefully someone will discover something useful with it soon.

GGs! Though I thin Bob might be a little ragey after losing to me with Jin. That second round comeback was pure fraudulent luck from me. I would be so much more fierce if my execution weren't such ass.

Yeah, it sure would be cool to be a 20k health character...

There really isn't ANYONE in the game with a Yun-esque dive kick, so that's pretty much off the table. Some characters have moves that change their aerial momentum, but there's none of this "free pressure from the air because you're plus after they block your kick" nonsense, though I guess you could pretend to do it with Ragna's Belial Edge. Most of the cast has solid pressure though. I also kinda admit I don't get it when you assert that he doesn't want to do "Big" combos, but that he loves Genei Jin, which gives some of the biggest, silliest combos in SF4. If he wants someone with a "mode" super like that, well, Ragna or Bang, I guess, because otherwise you're looking at Hakumen/Tsubaki. :P

Better than nothing! Thanks for the effort! Let us know when you've uploaded.

Where are the archives? Daaaamn yooooou! KHAAAAAAAAAAN! Er. Yeah. Would be nice if they exist.

That's nice. That isn't what you wrote, is all. If you're trying to explain to someone who doesn't know this stuff, you should endeavor to be precise. -5 is borderline, IMHO, especially since they have to IB to get it. No one can DP you in 5 frames. Even Jin's A DP is 6 and it isn't what people would be using here. An interesting additional thought that just occured to me is that most character's 5 frame jabs will whiff on you if you're in the 2D animation or crouching. What? Tell this to the people who claim to able to react to throws. No, 18 frames is within people's reaction threshold IF they are watching for it. If it surprises them it's not reactable. If they expect it (which is not the same as "calling it out") they can react. If I do 5B > CC 50% of the time and 5BB > CC the other 50% of the time and never anything else, I would expect people to be able to react to that after a while. Hence the need for unpredictability.

Eh. I guess. I always used 11k as the "average" since it's both the median and the mode. :P (i.e. the most common value and the 'middle' value.).

Slick!

Fair enough! Though an opponent has to be both mashy AND bad at mashing for 5C > 6C to be useful, since we're talking about a 7 frame gap there, so if they're actually mashing jab, you lose. Probably better to just delay 5CC in that case and save your 6C for a CH confirm.

I guess, but it seems like those three options cover most of the things your opponent can do? I mean, is 5C > 6C ever really a good idea? o.O

So apparently we get to add Jin to the list of characters who can do incredibly stupid (and often stupid looking) things with their OD?

Don't press buttons after Hakumen specials in general. They're pretty much all stupid good (Unlike certain other character's specials that take a special meter that is harder to get...) and can cancel into one another. x.x Hotaru/Tsubaki are actually a specially stupid case because they have NO landing recovery, so if Hakumen does one of these at a low altitude, he just lands and his "normal" recovery just goes away so he can do whatever. It's kindof insulting to every other air special in the game. Also: Wha?

This is actually slightly incorrect - charge cancelling does not necessarily "lessen the recovery" - it sets the recovery to 18 frames. Which means it actually makes the recovery WORSE on 5A, 2A, 2B. I know you point this out below, but it's still worth correcting. Curious as to why not 5CC, since that's the only one that doesn't leave you at a disadvantage. Again, you're not being precisely correct here; 5B, 5BB, 5C, and 5CC charge cancels are all safe, and even 2B and 2BB are pretty "safe" - no one can PUNISH you after any of these (except for Tager with GETB after 2B/2BB). This means that charge cancelling is an excellent way to bait reversals because you can charge cancel -> Block when, say, you get people who like to try to DP after IBing 5BB or just after 5CC in general expecting you to go to 6B. Even "fast" DPs in this game are like 7 frames, so you can easily block them after a charge cancel. What you are NOT after a charge cancel is plus frames; This means that while you CAN use charge cancels as a way to extend pressure, it is imperative that you not be predictable, because you are relying on your opponent not being able to react and throw out a jab that will then hit you out of whatever you try to do next. Part of the problem here is of course the fact that the charge cancel animation is super obvious, and your opponent has the entire time they're in blockstun to notice that you've done it and start mashing. The other bad news is that there really aren't that many places in a string where you can charge cancel effectively - you never, EVER want to do it after 2B because it actually makes you significantly more minus (Same applies to 5A/2A, but there's not really any reason to even consider this); you can do it after 2BB but you're at -5 (instead of -7, so still an improvement, but not good). This makes it hard to avoid being somewhat predictable. One of the more useful spots to charge cancel is probably after plain ol' 5B if it is blocked at a range where nothing else will connect. This allows you to microdash 5B again to try to get closer, or to disengage (though if you want to do the latter, you're probably better off just jump cancelling into a backwards IAD.). The other strong places to do it are 5C/5CC, because both of those moves are super super negative on block and charge cancelling them makes them safe (but not plus!) This all ties back into Tsubaki's blockstrings and the various ways she can interrupt them to try to extend her pressure.

I'ma gonna go sulk, since I worked all that out when the Extend Mook first came out, but nobody cared.

To be yours sometime in the undefined future. :P In the meantime, yes, the mechanics of teching still matter. Oh, and random aside: This seems both true and false - yes, you technically only need to press the button once to recover from stagger, but then, you technically only need to press the button once to escape a blue beat combo to. Since no two staggers in the game are the same length, it's not as simple as "just push a button to recover from stagger".

If it's that unreliable, why did it take us so long to get a video of someone beating it out? Even if the head invulnerability starts up a couple of frames later, it's still pretty solid? Oh, that would make sense. Fffff.

... It was an honest question. Not a "WTF, why don't they do this when it's obviously so good?" but more a "Is there some reason why it would be preferable to make the decision they are making, because I don't understand why it seems like they are making the inferior choice." I'm sure there's a good reason, but I don't know what it is. -_-

Why would you ever use 5A as an anti air? 2A I can see because you have a chance of low profiling an early air attack, and 5B has some forward extension, but 5A? but yeah, 2C still seems mostly okay. On the list of nerfs, this one, while perhaps no more explicable than any of them, doesn't seem particularly painful. Speaking of "nerfs" does anyone know why no one does 236D side-switch combos in CP? I've seen a LOT of videos where Tsubaki has her back to the corner and a charge in the bank, but the player chooses to do a zero charge ground combo instead of switching things around via the old 5BB > 5CC > 236D > stuff combo. I've seen it done ONCE, that I can recall, so it seems like the combo still WORKS... maybe it doesn't allow a full ender? But since you don't (I don't think?) need to do 236 > 214 > 22 for knockdown, just 214 > 22, it should be possible? I am confused.

My brain hurts from trying to imagine how they would even set up the game in such a way as to not know the frame data. I mean, they might not have it in a tidy chart, but they HAVE to somehow set, for example, how many active frames a move has. That might not cascade all the way down to like, "how plus is this on block?" because that's basically math applied to other stuff, but still, given the base data and the appropriate formulas, you'd think it's be much easier to calculate the stuff than it would be to count frames via camera or however they do it. Interesting to hear about the changes to head property - that really DOES make sense though. No good reason for ground moves to have it. OTOH, it would've been nice if they'd left the invulnerability on 214D, at least. =/

This is really strange; I know I've heard of games having frame data even INCLUDED, but I can't remember what game it was. Maybe it was DOA5? Certainly, their patch notes were SUPER SPECIFIC down to frames ala "66P: changed startup from 18 to 16F." But apparently this stuff is still far from the norm. Well, as C0R says, it still gets us a lot of stuff we wouldn't have otherwise, and it is generally MOSTLY right, but I'm going to be less surprised in the future when I find something that obviously doesn't add up.

That explains why it's so often wrong or incomplete. =/ Damnit Arc Sys.

"calculations"?

You can get 60FPS off nico? Learn something new everyday. I tend to associated Nico with "crappy quality that the Japanese for some reason insist on using anyway." x.x And I'd settle for the mook. That'd make me shut up for 24 hours. I shall hold out hope that they haven't released one because they plan to change lots of stuff. Har har.

Yes, it's extremely vertical. The area that Litchi had trouble controlling with her other anti-air options. So I don't really see how it fails to improve her anti-air game. I'm glad we already know that it's "about 20 frames" and "pretty clearly minus" - because that hasn't been clear from the videos I've seen. If anything, I'm guilty of drawing conclusions from insufficient information on this one, but to a degree, everything about CP is insufficient information right now. And the Litchi forums are crap for getting info on this stuff. I disagree that everyone needs a "solid" anti air. Honestly, I don't think there's any one thing in the game that "everyone" needs, but there need to be reasons why things are lacking. Litchi has a commanding ground game against most characters, and a strong air to air game against many. It's not at all strange that she might be given a more complicated anti-air game. Sorry if you're offended by my irritation at a character that appears to be in contention for S tier getting new stuff that compliments her game.