Daedron

On normal hit it would pretty much just faceplant the opponent and since the recovery wouldn't be fast enough to followup, that's where a cancel into 22x series would come in. And hmm...yeah, more ways to hit people with 22D, yay! So true, but a slower charge speed would make a lot of these proposed changes pretty ineffective cause we wouldn't want to "waste" the charges on just keeping pressure for a little bit longer or what have you, we would be more willing to use them to set up unblockables and other traps we know will have a huge reward when we land them. But that's where the whole problem comes in, if you're going to have Tsubaki use up a lot more charge in general play she also needs the faster charge speed, but this can have the effect of her just getting 5 charges in no time flat and just becoming this pretty beastly monsters thanks to it (along with all her other changes she might get). Balancing this character isn't as easy but I'm interested in what Arc Sys decides to do with her general gameplan.

I would like her damage to stay relatively the same, maybe a slight buff but I don't think it's needed if she got some of her old stuff back 3C being JC'able, DP whiff combos from CS2 being possible again using 623D instead, it's possible to do them in CSE with 623D now but the multi-hit property makes it do shitty damage so make it hit once instead of being smaller hits so the damage is significant. No repeat proration on it. I would like to see a new overhead, make it use 1 charge, 21 frame startup, the animation will be like 214D except it comes from above Tsubaki instead of coming from below her so to speak, make it ground bounce on counterhit and leads into IAD combo midscreen, on non-counterhit should only be followupable with a 22x series into 236D. proration should be about 214D levels. should be unsafe on block but you can cancel it into a 22D on block and into 22x on hit. Decent DP would be nice >.> Mugen is fine now so keep it as is. Dunno if 3C should be fatal if it can be JC'ed now to be honest...I would gladly trade it back in for 6C Fatal :V Change 5B to how it was except keep it at -5, but make the startup 9 again and make 5BB not have a freaking gap again. Make D moves safety back to CS1/CS2 levels, there's literally no reason to use them as a way to keep our pressure if they're so unsafe on block and I would like to see them get more use in blockstrings outside of 22D unblockable and crossup - j.214D ;/ I mean, relius can keep pressure with ignis, which is a meter, which means he spends resources and has to get it back when he runs out (even though for him it's automatic) so there's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be able to do the same if we so please, it's not like we can abuse it since we're not sitting on 5 charges constantly anyways >.> But yeah, we'll see how BB3 turns out lol Oh yeah, charge speed is fine if we got these changes by the way. Keep charge cancel charge speed, cause it's actually pretty cool ;p Okay, enough from me.

Hey now, we can still do that. Just with more heat and charges spend for way less damage (yay) and add some rapids in there and maybe some gold bursts?... Yeah, fuck it. BB3 Tsubaki being a mix of CSE and CS2 would be godlike though.

Hmm, he doesn't always do that from what I know, might be random.

http://www.justin.tv/prod7gy Though Prod isn't really well-known so the lobby is generally pretty empty except at peak times.

Damage wise? nope It was just to do the cross under XD

Surprise! Tsubaki Combo Video: I Wish I Had An Angel

I don't feel that way at all. Everyone is just blowing things out of proportion to be honest, you need to try harder yes, but it's not "unreal" at all. Now if she somehow got turned into CS1 Tsubaki then I would agree with you ;V

Just to add to this, while these are really good moves for getting in in CS2. using them 29 times (yes, I counted, though I counted all versions) is a bit too much, and honestly a better player will be able to call you out for doing it. Also note that getting in with 236x series in CS EX is a lot harder, because the moves are minus on block even at max range.

She cancelled into the 6B too late, there's only a 3 frame gap inbetween 5CC and 6B so it shouldn't be possible normally.

1) Really depends on the situation, though in your example you don't use a A/B/C version and then a D version so I might be misunderstanding this. But if you're asking if it's sometimes worth it to use an A/B/C move instead of the D version of that move in a combo then yes, there are situations where it might be handy to do so, though using A/B versions generally doesn't happen, it's mostly the C version or D unless we're talking about enders. Let's say you have 2 charges available and you land a 5B, you could do 5BB - 5CC - 22C - 236D - *insert combo here* instead of doing 5BB - 5CC - 22D - 236D - *insert combo here*. In this example, you use 1 less charge for (obviously) less damage, but you get the same corner carry as you do if you used 2 charges. It really depends on how many charges you're willing to spend, which again depends on how hard it is to get charge in a given matchup. If you know you can get the charges back easily enough then go ahead and use them up in your combos, but if you're hurting to get charge then it might be wiser to only spend 1 and use the other charge for another combo, or unblockable, or for D DP etc. 2) She's worse, but honestly not that much that you feel like you're playing a totally crippled character. CS1 is still WAAAAAAYYYYY worse, to the point where I am shocked that I once played her CS1 incarnation and it felt fine controlling her, she's so sluggish compared to CS2/CS EX. You do have to work a bit harder for your wins though, that's for sure.

Yeah, otherwise we would be scarred for life PS. Ragna matchup...YOU SUCK ASSSSSSSS.

Awesome, can't wait to read it :D

Well, if you can do it normally then there shouldn't be any problem. Just remember that you do the j.C as quick as possible and the j.CC delayed as much as you can, then just hit 5C the moment you land.

Yeah, they are dead, if you try to do one the j.236A will always hit, which makes the j.214D miss, and if you delay it long enough for it to whiff the j.214D doesn't hit.

You have to delay the 2nd hit of the j.CC, you basically have to land quickly after you hit with it so you can land and do the 5C. Basically you input the first j.C as fast as possible and you delay the j.CC. EDIT: Nice same time post :V

So I just got done playing with 6 people in a lobby using the Team battle system. EDIT: make that 5 people + myself... It's fun but a bit flawed in my opinion, it's fine in 2vs2. If the first match is W/L (team 1/team2) and the 2nd match is L/W (team1/team2) then it does an extra match between the two players that are left. However, in 3VS3, Those extra matches never happen and if the first 2 members of your team lose then there's NOTHING the 3rd can do, he can't go on and beat everyone on the other team all by himself for example. I guess some can see this as a flaw and some won't, I do see it as a flaw though and I honestly would have preferred an elimination type system.

Alright, then I'm just going to leave this piece of advise here: Don't get hit and you'll be fine

Just tested hit, he can hit you with a 2C trade when you do j.236D - j.214D, just as you come down. If he's mashing on it like crazy after the 623D it will whiff though so he has to time it. It's certainly not a favourable trade at all, obviously. Might have to see if just using j.236D will work, I bet it evades the 2C but I have my doubts about it being good for us if he uses AC or just sledges through it on reaction, no clue if we can block the sledge and no clue if he will be able to get us with AC. I just joined a lobby so I will test that some more later.

Probably easier to say if we have frame data available, but charge cancelling a 5B is basically putting it at 0/-1 (We don't really know how much frame dis/advantage charge cancelling gives us), so I guess you can do 5B - charge cancel - dash 5B. Kinda like we used to in CS2 except it's slightly worse, might still be useful but who knows.

Is that so? Guess I'll have to test that out in training. I've never seen a Tager hit me with 2C after, guess this has more to do with them not knowing And yup, forgot about dat MTW, well then, yay for bad news!

^ He won't be able to at max range. From the few matches I've had against Tager so far, it seems to have shifted slightly in his favour. but the way the battle is played out seems to be relatively the same. it's just that Tager has a bit more tools at his disposal and any random hit can be extremely bad news since 1. more damage and 2. TONS of meter, allowing him to do more crazy shenangians whenever he wants to. Of course, this is still the easiest matchup to get charges in, since 214D and 236D are really risky now when blocked, I would suggest only using those in combos or rapid them if they get blocked. 22D unblockables are our friend as always, make sure to space them well so you don't get hit by a 360/720 , any other move he does to try and beat it you should be able to beat by releasing your 22D on reaction, which is really good thanks to the counterhit wallbounce. Letting him come to you seems to still be the best option, even more so now that approaching him is harder thanks to nerfed 5B, 236C and D moves. If you need charges: 2D at a safe distance so long as he does not have a sparkbolt, if he does, make sure to release 2D on time and if you're feeling REALLY gutsy 214D it on reaction to avoid being magnetised or just super jump while blocking (less risk, no charge needed ;p) If you want charges badly and he super jumps in on you, stop charging and run under him to the other side of the screen and start charging again. Tager players LOVE it when you do that. Beat his jump ins with 2C, but keep an eye out for j.2C since it will mess up your timing and on counterhit will lead into at least 3K damage (4K+ if you're already magnetised, 4.5K-6K if he decides to use some heat). If the tager blocks, you have a few options. You can stay on the ground and pelt him with some ground based attacks to force him to barrier block it all, if he doesn't you can hitconfirm into a full corner carry combo. If he does block and he has heat, you should be careful cause the moment he lands he has some options in the form of 720 which he could have been buffering right before he landed or Magna Tech Wheel, in both cases you can jump up as a precaution, use your barrier and see what he does, if he 720's you'll evade it and can j.C for free, if he magna tech wheels you can block it, land and get a 5C counterhit...if he decides to use Atomic Collider you get hit...which isn't as bad as getting hit by a 720 at least. You can set up unblockables against Tager as well if he decides to jump in, if he high jumps towards you and you're spaced in such a way that Tager can in no way hit you with anything on his way down, you can start charging your 22D right as he reaches the top of his jump and it will hit him right before he lands, this is important cause if he has the chance to land he can just backdash it. j.2C can be used by him as well, if you see him using this immediately release your 22D (which will probably whiff) and go fetch yourself a counterhit if you think you'll make it to him on time (using 236D or just 5B or 22D...well go wild really.). 22x while all minus on block now can still be used to keep Tager honest, if the Tager decides to use 22D to throw you off guard, you get a free counterhit if you can react on time. If you do not react on time you can expect a trade which is NOT in your favour, he can tech before you and thanks to the wallbounce properties of 22x, he will land pretty close to you with you being magnetised. While I don't expect any decent Tager to do this much, if at all, Sledge can be handled the same way. Though in Extend he can charge up his B sledge to extend the range, just know that even at full charge, it only goes 3/4 of the screen and places him in a spot where you can hit with the tip of your 22x. If you can consistently counterhit him out of any ground based approaches, the air is his only way to approach and if the Tager knows this, you're that better off. Oh yeah, since you get charges easily you might want to use 623D if you have 3 charges to spend, it will evade anything Tager can do to you on wakeup. It doesn't matter if he blocks or not, auto pilot straight into j.236D - j.214D to make it completely safe. you can pressure him a bit if you want to but keep your blockstrings short and if you spot him IB'ing any of them while he has hit, try to get out of there as soon as possible cause he might try to use a 720. 5B - 5C - 2C - jump cancel seems to work, you can backdash for safety or continue pressure with j.C, just make sure to use a deep j.C since otherwise he can just 360/720 you the moment you land and try to do anything else except jump away again. There's probably more I can add but I probably want to play more matches first. Long story short, the matchup has stayed relatively the same as CS2, he just has a few more tools and higher damage while Tsubaki has less tools and less damage (in the majority of the cases), making this officially an even more boring matchup than in CS2 if you decide to play it "the right way"...then again I don't think any character vs Tager is all that exciting, and I sure as hell don't always play this "the right way".

It's not like any of my matches are particularly "High-level" either :V

It isn't.

Wait a minute most of the charge cancel combos done in part 3 are of CS1...and here I thought it was CS EX ;V