Daedron

Pretty simple, and I'm going to be using the A version as the example here: 1. The invis lasts up till 1 frame before the active frames, this means you can be HIT OUT OF THE STARTUP, which is in many cases pretty bad depending on what move you traded with. Compare it to Inferno Divider or Litchi's Tsubami Guishi (lol spelling), their invis both lasts beyond the startup meaning it will never trade with any normal non-invis move. 2.The hitbox is kind of shitty so compared to Inferno Divider you'll actually completely whiff it at times, which is to be honest even worse than it getting blocked. 3.It's a freaking projectile. The D version isn't a projectile and the invis is 1 frame longer, but even the D version manages to trade a lot since again, the invis doesn't last past the startup...well at least with charges available the D DP can be used to deal a semi-damaging combo. And one positive thing about Tsubaki's DP is that you can make it safe by using charges though, aka j.236D - j.214D, something other characters have to use heat for.

It also acts as a launcher and launches your opponent off-screen for about 95 in-game seconds.

2A needs to deal 10000 damage, be +1000 on block and be a low and high at the same time. Discuss.

Wouldn't it be great if the majority of Tsubaki's D-moves were plus on block (I mean come on, we're using up our resources for crying out loud)? it's not like Order Sol (Yes I know, different game) doesn't have moves that put him at +20...yet that's totally fine.

Ever since the guy I regularly play (from America) moved slightly closer to the EU and got better internet. 3-4 bars still lag like crazy though...for some reason.

I can add you if you want, I generally get decent connections even with people from America (1 bar) so it shouldn't be a problem!

Seems like it, I remember a video against...I think it was a makoto, but in any case the makoto was almost directly above Tsubaki and 623A still managed to hit her. If this is indeed true that's some pretty good news.

Don't remind me, it was a slaughterfest. AND I DON'T EVEN PLAY THIS GAME SO HAH!

Maybe we should make a list of people who are importing? -Daedron -BatousaiJ -Tsubaki 5B And I think a few others are as well, then we know who to go to for questions

It's alright, the game is out in 2 weeks anyways for the people who are importing, so we will be able to dissect the game completely soon enough. EDIT: There's an unlisted nerf in the first post by the way. According to the Japanese Wiki the level of 2A has gone down from 1 -> 0. This makes it 0 on block instead of +2.

That + the 20% bonus proration we get from 3CC. .

Some new Tsubaki stuff in the latest videos PK uploaded. 2.5K-ish from 5B(CH) - 6CC - 236C - 214A - 5C - 2C - 236B - 214B - 22B about 4.6K from 22D - 3CC - rapid - 6CC - 623C - j.236A(whiff) - j.214D - j.D - j.C - 5C - 2C - j.C - j.CC - j.236A - j.214A With the counterassault changes making them a lot more risky to use than ever and the reduced damage on 236236C, we should probably have enough meter to spend for the 3CC. Really wonder how much damage that would have done if it went straight into 6CC - 623C - j.214D though...hmm

That is not to say DP whiff will be completely useless to learn now, since we can still go into an air combo after 623C > j.214A apparently. It might be handy to at least learn it so you can do it quickly, cause hitting with j.C is apparently pretty tight, you probably have to use j.214A pretty quickly after 623C.

Urgh...seriously. I still can't play this game online, tons of lag everywhere even with people from EU and 3-4 bar connections. There are only certain people I can still have a relatively lag-free match with nowadays, it's beginning to piss me off cause I wanna get back into this game with Extend coming out in 2 weeks and all... I've tried everything EXCEPT putting my PS3 in a DMZ or whatever, I never had to do that before I got my new router though. And what would having a new router fuck up anyways? The only difference is that this one also has wireless capabilities but I am obviously not using wireless on my PS3, just wire. So unless that wireless connection somehow fucks up the wired connection... That combo ends in an air combo, generally speaking you should never ever end your combos with an air ender, since you lose oki (unless you intend to go for the j.D - air dash - j.CC oki, but that's better used in Extend). I personally use this combo instead: Air throw - 6C - 236D - 5C - 2CC - 22C - 6C - 236B - 214B - 22B = 3.1K Of course this is from midscreen to corner, your opponent needs to be in the corner after 22C otherwise you can't hit with 6C, but you only lose out on a fraction of the damage anyways. For a corner air throw combo, I use this: Air throw - 6C - 214D - 5C - 2CC - 22C - dash - 5C - 2C - 236B - 214B - 22B = 3.4K With both combos you can add a super at the end for another 800 damage. In any case, the most important part of the challenge combo 8 is to get the IAD (instant air dash) part right, though to be honest you're pretty far into the hitstun scaling by that point and the timing is a lot tighter, so you might want to practice doing it off of an easier starter first. 214D - 2CC - IAD - j.CC - land - 5B - 2CC - 236B - 214B - 22B is the combo you should be practicing as a starting point. Once you get the IAD part down, it's time to move on to Tsubaki's DP whiff combos to increase your overall midscreen damage (and corner in some cases), but I believe I am typing this in General non-related BB chat, so it might be better to ask this in the questions thread. Hope this helps.

Man, that huge amount of trolling... Seems to work, I'll use that next time.

Right, I forgot to take the base damage into account.

It's alright, thanks for the link in any case. It doesn't seem to have CS EX combos yet, but look at my edited post above, some interesting tidbits I managed to get out of it =)

Uhmm, you sure that is the CS EX wiki, looks like the CS2 one to me since it shows DP whiff combos and all? Not to mention, in that combo you posted, apparently 6C - super adds 800 damage (from 4.9K to 5.7K). the super in CSEX does 440 (something like that) so unless 6C adds THAT much that late in the combo there is just NO WAY that's even possible. Brb, going to test to make sure. EDIT: Yup, definately CS2 combo ;p EDIT2: It does seem the Wiki has some frame data about CS EX Tsubaki though, nothing about on block values etc but it does show proration values. List of things that make me lift a brow: P1 values for starting with D moves are HEAVILY nerfed, in my opinion almost making them worthless to try and use as combo starters. Just a comparison: 5A Proration values: P1: 100 and P2: 82. 214D proration values: P1: 80 P2: 92. The P1 value of 214D was 100 in CS2 just for comparison's sakes, it was the highest starter next to 5C. From what I can tell (theoryfighting here) you would get about the same or maybe MORE damage out of a 5A starter than you would out of a 214D starter... I have no idea what the hell they were thinking considering how high risk using 214D is now, having it IB'ed is a free punish for your opponent, getting a 5A seems a lot easier in my eyes. Sure, 214D lifts them up into the air ready for an IAD combo, something you would only be able to achieve off a 5A starter with using 22D and 236D mid-screen, though only 22D would be enough in the corner. Anyways, moving on: 22D starter has worse proration than a 5B starter. 3C proration values: 80 and 92, worse than a 5B starter but the FC property might off-set that...but! 3CC has a 120% bonus proration, but is it worth it considering we need to rapid to continue the combo? I can see some pretty interesting combos happening if you manage to hit the 3C as FC though, for sure. Mugen increases (read: improves) the P2 values on D moves...but the kicker here is that these P2 values are the CS2 values we have right now...except for 1 tiny bit, using j.236D - j.214D (and passing through the light ball) gives you 110% bonus proration. Couple this with using 3CC in there, and maybe we can actually achieve higher damage than we could in CS2...but at the cost of more resources to CS2, at least the options are there to do so. Extend...HURRY UP ALREADY (2 more weeks!) EDIT3: Something I overlooked, the repeat values for D moves during Mugen has been HEAVILY IMPROVED. From going to 50% repeat to 85-ish...this is a HUGE improvement and obviously, with a 5 charge mugen, 6C starter, j.236D - j.214D 110% bonus proration and 3CC 120% bonus proration I can actually see some very funny stuff happening, though maybe it's better to not do the 3CC - rapid and use it on the 5 charge D super at the end instead. But like I said before, what's the chance of all that happening in a real match? not to mention: bursts...

Doesn't look like they improved 623D in any way, traded with Hakumen's j.C (or j.2C, forgot which one he used) If you're going to nerf her charge gain and damage at least make the charges worth using out of combos, thank you very much ;<

Yeah, I worded that wrong. I meant that even if the 3C didn't FC (aka, you rapid it) then that combo should still work all the way till the end. First combo should be: 5BB - 5CC - 623C - j.214A(whiff) - j.C - j.236D - j.214A(whiff) - 6C - 236B -214B -22B I don't really have much I would want to see tested, except maybe Mugen viability. Like, try to come up with some decent ones off of a 2-3 charge mugen in the corner off of a 5C counterhit or something like that. I just want to know what her max damage potential is really.

That should work even without the FC, from what I've seen so far of Extend at least.

Looking through the CS 2 videos, it seems to have been discovered pretty early considering I'm seeing people use it in early January matches, so only about 1 month after CS2 came out in Japanese arcades came out has it been discovered. We're now a bit longer into CS:EX and nothing new has been discovered, you can blame this on the fact that a lot of people aren't going to be playing it anymore, but I'm just gonna say that there just is nothing new to be discovered... Except for optimal combo paths I guess, maybe some mugen stuff.

It should have been a nerf to her damage and not touching her charge speed at all OR a nerf to charge speed but leave her damage alone. Too bad we got all of that + combo path nerfs + 5B speed nerfs + whatever else I missed. Oh well, we'll have to cope with it anyways, at least we're not even close to CS1 levels.

Lol, I didn't mean yours was impractical, I meant the one I was about to post was.

And for the people who want an impractical AND also a character specific 2 charge FC combo that does more damage than this...behold!: 2 Charge Corner: 6CC(FC) - 623C - j.214A(whiff) - 2C - 623C - j.236A(whiff) - j.214D - 623C - j.214A(whiff) - 2CC - 22D - 5C - 2CC - IAD - j.CC - 5B - 2CC - 22C - 5C - 2C - 236B - 214B - 22B - (236236C) = 5.8K (6.6K) damage. Confirmed working on Ragna...I have no clue on who else it works really, but expect this combo to be unusable on half the cast! Cause we love combos like that. And this reminds me of why I'm sad about 6C FC not being in extend...sigh...so many cool combos gone. EDIT: I forgot to mention you can do the above combo (sorta) by cutting off a bit of the beginning part: 6CC(FC) - 623C - j.214D - 623C - j.214A(whiff) - 2CC - 22D - 5C - 2CC - IAD - j.CC - 5B - 2CC - 22C - 5C - 2C - 236B - 214B - 22B - (236236C) = 5.6K (6.4K) damage. This one DOES (or should) work on all characters, but does a whole 200 points of damage less