cadacus_ater

True, there is better.... I was bored and found the 5B follow up entertaining. For instance, this one is somewhat easier, aside from the confirm into Sekkajin perhaps, and has much better damage and heat gain: 6B > Sekkajin > 66 6C > DC > j.C > j.214A > (44) 5C > 6C > 623B > sj.D > AD j.2C > j.C > 66 5B > 5C > 3C > 214C (4406/60) Tested against Tsubaki at start position. EDIT: I messed up the damage and heat a bit due to putting the values for using 5C > 2C > 623B instead of 5C > 6C > 623B. 6C boosts the damage and heat a bit.

Been messin' around in the lab a bit and ran across this combo: 6B > Sekkajin > 66 6C > 2D > j.2C > j.C > 66 5C > Sekkajin > 66 6C > 623B > 66 6C > 623C (4039/46) Tested with opponent at start position. While the timing on it is somewhat demanding, after the 623C ender you can follow up with 5B and if the opponent techs as soon as possible, you will hit them with 5B as they land. Might be a fun reset to try if you can nail this. Be warned, the timing to land 6C before the 623C is very strict, and it's really hard against characters like Valk and Tager, but I've pulled it off on both of them (as well as Makoto and Hazama, so I think it is universal).

Regarding the 2C FC > 6C combo thread entry: [D1] 2C FC > 6C > DC > j.C > j.214A > 2C > DP B > 66 6C > DP C > 5B > 5C > 2C > sj.D > AD > j.2C >j.C > 66 5B > [1)5C > 3C > 214C] or [2)2B > 5C > 3C > 214A] (4257 or 4190/68 or 61) I posted this elsewhere, but you can squeeze out ~90 more damage for this combo as follows (shown for ender 1): [D1] 2C FC > 6C > DC > j.C > j.214A > 2C > 6C > (Delayed) DP B > 66 6C > DP C > 5B > 5C > 2C > sj.D > AD > j.2C >j.C > 66 5B > [1)3C > 214C] or [2)2B > 5C > 3C > 214A] (4346 or 4299/69 or 63) *Damage and heat assume 5C is omitted, if 5C can be added without dropping, add about 40 damage and 3 heat I'm a little hazy on whether the 5C can be tacked on to the ender for this combo, hence my italicized comment.

2C FC is an absolute pain in the ass to optimize, lol. I find myself resorting to sub-optimal combos cause I can't remember which one I should be using. Knowing that the absolute best I can get out of it is ~4.3k doesn't make me want to exert the extra effort to nail down the positions. And don't get me started on AA 2C. I hate dash > sjc j.C > j.214A crap

I love how the corner makes some epic combos viable but screws up others

I also love that 'kune gets this much damage with only 50 meter, lol. Takes most characters at least 100 meter to get that much damage afaik.

This makes me sad. Why would hitting our sword's scabbard damage us I like this...except that 2C P1 is so much worse now that I hate using it as anti-air

I've done the second set successfully about 5% of the time, but I can't get the part after landing from the second set down yet. I kinda gave up on it because there are better combos for me to practice, lol.

Yes I know...I console myself saying that mine requires less heat to start and needs no cross-under...just an impeccably timed 623C

Challenge Accepted! (EDIT: I realized I did not go ...Gold Burst > 623C > 5C > 6C > 623C > 5B... which is impossible; it is fixed now) In the corner, requires ~52-55 heat (29 hits with no Ice Wave holes, tested on Noel): 6C (CH) > DC > Gold Burst > 66 > Gold Burst > (slight delay) 623C > 5C > 6C > 623B > 6C > 623C > 5B(2 hits) > 5C > (s)j.C > j.214A (reverse)> 5C > 2C > j.9D* > 5C** > 632146C x2 (8480) *Jump toward opponent for j.D **Omitting 5C before Ice Waves may deal more damage (potentially 8530 or so) Honestly, I wasn't expecting to exceed 8471...I was shocked when I read 8480. This one actually seems easier than my first 8k combo...except for the 5C pick up That is hard as all hell to land consistently, and it seems to require you to delay the 2nd Gold Burst slightly to keep the opponent from falling as fast into 623C, but idk...it just requires perfect timing.

Nice stuff

I tried to do that, but I couldn't get the timing right.... I should practice that more.

I used 5B (2 hits) for both 5B in the combo; those are the 2 missing hits. I should have specified that I guess

I hit 8k damage with Jin (without using a crazy 8th hit Sekkajin starter) Too bad the timing on this is very strict...and it uses 2 Gold Bursts...and requires a 6C CH...which means you'll probably never get to use it. Oh well, here it is (tested on Valkenhayn; I think it should work on the whole cast). In the corner, requires about 60 heat minimum to start (30 hits with no Ice Wave holes): [CH] 6C > DC > Gold Burst > Gold Burst > (delay*) 623C > 5B > 5C > 6C > 623C > 5B > 5C > 623B > (delay) JC > j.C > j.214A (reverse) > (delay) 5C > 2C > JC > j.D > (land, delay) 632146C > 632146C (8079) *Timing is dependent on opponent's hitbox in the air and how far you send them up with the 2nd Gold Burst. (EDIT: all 5B in this combo use 2 hits) Notes: Yes, two 5B pickups are possible in this combo, so long as you hit the opponent with your first 623C at the highest possible point and then catch them with the first 5B as high as is allowable for connecting the 5C follow-up. Also, connecting the 2x Ice Wave on Valkenhayn seems very tricky for this combo. Your spacing needs to be just right if you jump forward for j.D or you lose Ice Wave hits. You can jump straight up and j.D, then delay the 1st Ice Wave to hit him as he lands, but you are left with a very tight window to execute the 2nd Ice Wave. It may be impossible to connect the 2nd Ice Wave if you are too far away, but my execution of 2x Ice Wave isn't solid enough for me to tell for certain.

I notice myself having the opposite problem using a controller (PS3 thumbstick). My supers turn into ice cars, or occassionally DPs

Damn it...I lost my head lol. I'll edit my other post with something different. I'm a little hesitant to put up 3C > 623B > 214C enders because I seem to have trouble connecting the 623B on characters like Noel. Also on the subject of enders, I've noticed that when using the double Sekkajin combo against Relius, 66 6C > (whiff 214C) if too close the corner (you might be able to delay 66 6C a bit to fix it, not sure). I'm not sure if it's a training mode bug or not.... @Shinsyn0021 (below): My apologies sir. I did get a bit sidetracked.

Just turn it into a Sekkajin combo: 3C > 214B(1) > RC > j2C > 66 5B > 5C > Sekkajin > 5C > 2C > [1)2D > (66) 6C > 214C] or [2)HJC > j.D > AD > j.2C > j.C > 66 5B > 3C > 623B > 214C] (~3.3k or ~3.5k) [1) should work, but [2) should be tested. Wow, that was stupid of me Ok then...maybe this: 3C > 214B(1) > RC > j2C > 66 5C > 2C > HJC > j.D > AD > j.2C > j.C > 66 5B > 3C > 623B > 214C (~3.3k) I think 5C should catch them...if not I'm out of ideas until I can hit training mode...which won't be for a week and a half

Because I suck at doing 3C > 214A > cross-under 5C > 632146D, I've been trying to optimize the damage of 2 x Ice Wave ender for 6C starter DP loop. The best I can come up with requires no 3C > 214A cross-under or AD cancel, but timing and (to an extent) spacing are crucial. EDIT: Just to clarify, (Reverse) in this combo indicates Jin faces away from the corner upon landing, not that you hit opponent with your back to them. Testing on Hazama, Ice Waves hit 6 times each; this may change against certain other characters: In the corner; requires minimum of ~60 heat (25 hits): 6C > 623B > 6C > 623C > 5B > 5C > HJC > j.C > j.214A > (Reverse) 5C* > 2C > JC** > j.D > (Delay) 5C > 632146C > 632146C (6910) *Will whiff if opponent is too high after j.214A (they tech before you can hit them). Keep the opponent as low as possible on 5B pickup for best results. Combo should work on entire cast with proper adjustments of timing and spacing as needed. For example, you can connect HJC > j.C > j.214A > (Reverse) 5C on Valkenhayn with delay 623C and (if necessary) a very slight delay of 5B pickup. **Jumping toward the opponent should keep you from needing to adjust position for (Delay) 5C. Try to hit opponent with near-max range 5C as soon as they land, but don't push them too far or 2nd Ice Wave may be hard to connect. You may omit 5C and time the 1st Ice Wave to hit them as they land for ~130 less damage...unless you can get more hits with the Ice Waves by omitting 5C (i.e. when playing against Tager). Notes on 2 x Ice Wave: Goal is to hit standing opponent on the ground with 1st Ice Wave. Execute 2nd Ice Wave as soon as possible, or it can be blocked. My training mode tests suggest any Ice Wave hits that would drop combo proration below 1% can be blocked also (estimated proration after hit 25 of this combo is ~1.1%). Rewenger's post on page 9 of this thread discusses this further and gives additional combos using 2 x Ice Wave ender.

In general you don't want to try 5A > 5C > 6C to end the loop. 6C usually whiffs in most cases after the 2nd 623C in a DP loop. Use 5A > 5C > 2C if you are going to end with 623C, but you would be better off ending with something like 5A > 5C > 2C > HJC > j.D > AD > j.2C > j.C > (66) 5B > [1)3C > 214C] or [2)5C > 3C > 214A > 214A]. Both enders net you around 6.6k damage and a lot of heat, while the 623C nets around 6.2k damage and a bit less heat. If you want to end the combo easier, skip the AD > j.2C > j.C and go straight to (land) 66 5B > 2B > 5C > 3C > 214C/2x214A for roughly 6.4k-6.5k. EDIT: The damage I'm giving assumes you use the Gold Bursts. If you don't use the Gold Bursts, see the first page of this thread's 6B combo section for a good 6B CH combo in the corner. Note: This combo should work based on my estimates of proration; it has less proration by the time you use j.D than the classic corner 6C starter DP loop, so I don't see how it couldn't work. Still, using 2 Gold Burst isn't something you get to do very often.

So I've been messing around with 623D(2) > RC combos that can carry the opponent across the screen, should the need ever arise So far this is the best one I've come up with (tested on Valkenhayn): Jin against the corner; requires 75 heat: 623D(2) > *[RC > Run-up] > 2B > 5C > 2C > HJC > j.D > AD > j.2C > j.C > 66 5B > **[1)5C > 3C > 623B > 214C] or ***[2)2B > 5C > 3C > 214A > 214A] (3738 or 3523/30 or 26) *RC as soon as possible, then immediately run up to the opponent and use 2B. If too far away to use 5C > 2C, try 5C > HJC > [j.2C or j.C] > j.D for a little less damage. **Combo tested with opponent between the max reach of 623D(2) and just out of range of Jin's 5B. ***Combo tested with opponent between the max reach of 623D(2) and just out of range of Jin's 5C. Jin may need to be a slight distance from the corner to comfortably execute the combo. As far as full-screen combos go with a 623D (both hits) starter, the 'best' I've come up with so far does around 600 more than 623D > 632146C, but requires ~96 heat.... I say 'best' because my goal was maximizing damage without using an aerial ender or allowing the opponent to air tech at the end; there are other ways to end this combo. Also tested on Valkenhayn, but it should work on the whole cast (please correct me if I'm wrong on this). Kinda fun, but more of a novelty with the amount of heat required (623D > 632146C is much simpler to pull off...): 623D > RC > Run-up > 2B > 5C > HJC > j.2C > j.214D > (66) 3C > 214A > [1)5C > 623B > 623C] or [2)214A] (3505 or 2995/~13 or ~7) Note that after j.214D there are some options involving 66 6C > stuff, but they either allow the opponent to air tech afterwards or require an aerial ender (i.e. j.C > j.214X) that may not be easy to connect.

I'm not sure how you are going 66 6C > DC > JC > j.214A...as far as I know you need to DC > JC > j.C > j.214A if you want to follow up 6C near mid-screen without 2D. If you've done it successfully, I tip my hat to your execution. However, I'm getting a little more damage out of a CH 6B when P2 is at start position with this combo, but the ender is kinda hard to land (you hardly have time to 66 5B after j.C, you need to go right into 5B so timing is important). Testing on Hazama (should also work on Hakumen): [CH] 6B > (66) 6C > DC > j.C > j.214A > (Max Delay) 2C > 6C > 623B > 66 6C > 623C > 5B > 5C > 2C > HJC > j.D > AD > j.2C > j.C > *5B > 3C > 214C (5374/68) *If 5B(1) is used, (5346/67) EDIT: The combo above also works if you replace [CH] 6B with 2C FC, which then yields (4346/66) March 3, 2012 11:20 am - You can also use the following for a higher damage B+C(2) > RC combo (so long as you aren't too close to the corner): B+C(2) > RC > (66) 6C > DC > j.C > j.214A > (Max Delay) 2C > 6C > 623B > 66 6C > 623C > 5B > 5C > 2C > HJC > j.D > 5B > 5C > 3C > 214C (4507/~49) (may fall just short of 50 heat) Just ignore this and read the paragraph below.... When I was attempting it, I did manage to pull off one 44 2C from between "Mid-screen" and "Near the Corner." However, I can't pull it off consistently, and only saw it once in seemingly 100 tries.... I also couldn't tell whether I was at the distance where I would have otherwise caught the opponent behind me with a (land) 2C or whether I would have turned around and used (land) 2C without the 44, so I can't tell you much about it, except that it is very difficult to pull off.

So if I understand the frame data correctly, then assuming you go [X] > (66) 6C > DC > (H)JC > j.C > j.214A > Adjust 2C > 623B > (Delay) 66 2C > 6C > 623C > 5B > stuff, practical starter [X] is limited to: [CH] 6B, 2C FC, B+C(2) RC, and I think [CH] j.2C ([CH] j.2C lets you do 5B pickup, but j.D will whiff if you attempt it) Or if you felt like experimenting with near full screen combos for 75 heat, you might be able to start with 623D(2) > RC > Run-up.... I should mess with that this weekend for fun ReEDIT: Ok, I've been testing it against Hazama, and 5B pick up works with all of the "practical" options I listed, but after 5B > 5C > 2C it seems to get VERY tight (probably impractical). For j.2C [CH or CO] starter, j.D will whiff. B+C(2) RC will not whiff on j.D if you are spot on with your timing, but you must use 5B > 3C > 214A/214C ender (I think this is the case for 6B starter as well, as I recall I blue beat 214C after 5B > 5C > 3C with the 6B [CH] starter). I'll just list the combos that work so far as tested on Hazama (change timing and/or ender as needed). I got myself all confused trying to test them all at once a few days ago (didn't help either my execution was horrid that day ) For all of these combos, it is easiest to delay the 2C as much as possible before using 623B, but timing can vary. When P2 is at start: B+C(2) > RC > 66 6C > DC > j.C > j.214A > (Max Delay) 2C > 623B > 66 2C > 6C > 623C > 5B > 5C > 2C > HJC > j.D > [1*) AD > j.2C > j.C > 3C > 214C] or [2) 66 5B > 5C > 3C > 214C] (4449 or 4406/49 or 49) [Note [2) is much easier, but not as good as the Teal colored B+C(2) RC combo on the first page of the thread] *Not much leeway with the timing on...AD > j.2C > j.C...you must land almost immediately after the hitstop of j.C ends and follow with 3C > 214C/214A upon landing. [*AA or Ground] 2C FC > 66 6C > DC > (*h)j.C > j.214A > (Delay) 2C > 623B > 66 2C > 6C > 623C > 5B > 5C > 2C > HJC > j.D > AD > j.2C > j.C > 66 5B > 3C > 214C (4265/68) *If AA hit, HJC into j.C > j.214A.... [CH] 6B > (*66) 6C > DC > j.C > j.214A > (Delay) 2C > 623B > 66 2C > 6C > 623C > 5B > 5C > 2C > HJC > j.D > AD > j.2C > j.C > 66 5B > 3C > 214C (5278/68) *Only microdash if P2 is farther from the corner than P2 start position) Note: I did find 2C > 623B could be an alternative to 44 5C > 623B, as long as you aren't REALLY close to the wall. If you are too close, you will typically catch them behind you with 2C, then 623B will launch them out. In addition, I don't recommend trying to 44 2C after j.214A if you are too far in the corner...it doesn't seem to work at all. Also, I learned that you can't combo from starter [CO] 6B into 6C without a CH...my bad.

So I know ...(j.)214A > 6C in the corner can launch the opponent out if you aren't positioned correctly when going for ...6C > 623B > 66 6C > 623C > stuff. Because you can still launch them out with ...(j.)214A > Adjust 2C > 6C in these situations, it is typical to resort to ...(j.)214A > 44 5C > 6C > 623B > 6C > 623C > stuff. However, you should get a little more damage with something like... ...(j.)214A > Adjust 2C > 623B > (Delay) 66 2C > 6C > 623C > 5B > 5C > 2C > HJC > j.D > AD > j.2C > j.C > 66 5B > [1) 5C > 3C > 214A/214C] or [2) 3C > 214A/214C] (if 5C ruins the ender) The main question is, am I correct in thinking this will work assuming ...Adjust 2C > 623B... connects, or would it drop by either launching out of the corner (with 6C or maybe 623B) or whiffing (66 2C, 623C, or 5B pickup)?

Yeah, I read that section as I was trying it against Noel.... I was writing the post as I was testing the combo so I didn't make it as clear as I should have. Pretty sure it works on everyone (with the proper switch to 3C > 214A ender on characters 3C > 214C won't work on), just needs different timing on the DP loop for some characters (i.e. Valkenhayn ). EDIT: Edited my original post to summarize combo specifics.

Against Noel, you can confirm j.B into 66 5B only if low enough to the ground; at some heights you have to go j.B > 5B immediately without dashing. If you are too high, you can't combo j.B into 5B at all. I just tested this in training mode against Noel.