cadacus_ater

Well, it definitely doesn't push them, which is why I love the new j.236D so much. A pretty much guaranteed lock down on block makes me very happy. If it does vacuum, then all the better, lol.

KC has been around hasn't he? Or are you using a diff name for him?

My calculations indicate it has 1420 base damage or so...that or it has some other hidden modifiers I don't know about. And to clarify, CT does get prorated by the combo, but it will not prorate the combo upon using it, that is, if you have 1000 base damage on a CT and use it in a combo with 60 proration (from attacks before the CT), you will do 600 extra damage in the combo and still maintain the 60 proration for the next attack in the combo. Nothing like some good old UHD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee1BgSTxW-8#t=1m19s So happy spending meter actually gets some decent damage in this iteration, along with corner carry. Would have done less than 3.3k in extend not counting the Hizangen. EDIT: Well, looks like CT is stronger than I thought based on that 6.5k combo, lol

I should have known there was some kind of limit to freezes in OD...otherwise it could get a little bit overpowered, lol.

I'm guessing he was talking about them doing equal damage as a starter? Please correct me if you know I'm wrong on that. I'm calculating them separately because I don't know how they prorate compared to each other and I know they have different min damage. They can vary by several hundred points of base damage and still do the same damage as a starter depending on their P1 and P2. I have a very weak grasp on what Air Hiyoku's P2 and base damage is, which really makes it hard...and I rarely see it outside of near min proration scenarios, which aren't very helpful for determining P2. I'm going off of almost no hard data...I just estimate base damage, P1 and P2, and min proration by checking observations against my own calculations...which are close to, but perhaps slightly different from, that of the game, due to possible differences in rounding and multiple assumptions. Hiyoku Getsumei has always been very tricky to calculate the base damage, P1 and P2, and min proration for. Rounding proration and damage to match the game is a rather difficult process that can change damage estimates on a single, high damage attack like Hiyoku by as much as 30 points or perhaps more depending on combo proration, making it a very involved algebra problem, lol. Okay, enough of that...time to dream about OD combos some more, lol.

Oh yeah, I remember that...I was like, "Why you no use double Hiyoku there?" You might be right about no double Hiyoku there, unfortunately

Are you referring to this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GAzsW977N0#t=5m47s Not sure if this means we lost Hiyoku x 2 or not. I never know when Jins are just being stylish because they can be, lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACkW58XayQc#t=5m32s It looks like 6A has 640 damage, and still has P1 80 and P2 92, unchanged from CS:EX damage and proration. I'm certain now that 2D gets a buff from OD. Perhaps a bonus proration or an outright P2 change? Whatever the case, it's effective non-starter proration in OD is 92 instead of 82. I'm not sure if it also happens to 6D or 5D or j.D? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACkW58XayQc#t=9m7s Um...this appears to be a crazy high buff to j.D in OD.... I'm getting a buff of proration so high that j.D no longer prorates the combo in OD...it buffs it a little (effective non-starter "proration" in OD looks like 102 instead of 82, assuming non-starter Touga is the same as in CS:EX). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6f8fm3bBXo#t=4m7s Seems like 6D has 800 base damage, based on that combo. Messing with P1 would not produce the desired result. EDIT: Don't want to triple post...but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrtB1g--a4U#t=2m25s Hiyoku starter does 2387 EDIT: From the looks of things, CT has 1420 or so base damage, based on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrPuQ1FvTmg#t=36s and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WCNgoYPt6A#t=14m3s. Also, I'm pretty sure OD does buff 6D to have an effective non-starter proration of about 92 based on Chirudo's 6.5k combo and Tetsu's stunts against Bang in training mode

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrPuQ1FvTmg#t=1m40s I'm not sure what's going on with Touga starter...in combos it seems unchanged from CS:EX but as a starter it looks like it got buffed slightly.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGfNuMKzwIE#t=2h52m55s From this, the total minimum damage of ground Hiyoku is 1025 (confirmed with 2 videos, this one with a 11.5 and another with a 15.3 combo prorated Hiyoku). From other observations and checks, it looks like Hiyoku has P1 of around 74.7 (assuming 2368 damage as a starter), P2 of 75 and base damage of 800 + 100 x 22 + 1800 = 4800. Min proration seems to be 25 for the first arrow, about 21 for arrows 2-23, and about 20.2 for last arrow. This gives a min damage of 200 + 21 x 22 + 363 = 1025. (I could still be wrong about some of this, but I don't have hard evidence to the contrary yet...video quality, and not having the game yet [], is a considerable barrier to confirmation.). EDIT: This min proration estimate comes closer to matching combos I had trouble predicting, but I'm overshooting some observations by around 10 damage...which is much better than my original error of 100, lol. Also...the same video that confirmed min damage seems to have wrecked my estimate of either base damage, P2 or both...or I'm just not rounding the same as the game does.... Not sure what is wrong, but I underestimated the damage by 28 on a 38.3 prorated Hiyoku...probably an error in the rounding http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN5UKOSAOUg#t=11m34s From this, Air Hiyoku seems to have min proration of 20 for arrows 1 to 23. For reference, combo proration before Air Hiyoku is 22.7. I'm guessing it's P2 is the same as the ground version, but I have no guarantee with my lack of video references for Air Hiyoku. P1 I don't know...if it does do 2368 as a starter, it's P1 would be about 89.2, assuming a P2 of 75. EDIT: Or...I could be totally off track on Air Hiyoku.... Saw it do 820 when combo proration had reached 15.4 before Hiyoku or so and am slightly befuddled how I saw it do 830. Last arrow seems to be the culprit and is throwing my base damage estimate for said arrow and my P1 and P2 assumption through a loop. At least I did find out first arrow does appear to have 20 min proration...yay.... Possible solution is 800 + 100 x 22 + 1460 with P1 of 87.5 and P2 of 70 and min proration of 15 on last arrow for 820 min damage total (160 + 20 x 22 + 220 = 820). Don't hold me to it though, not enough data to tell for sure.

Touga OD follow-up does 600 damage minimum...not sure if it can do more if used early in a combo or not.... I'm guessing you'd almost have to use a Touga starter or CT > Touga point blank to get 1-3 hits while in OD to even reliably test if it had a minimum proration and could do more than 600, since Touga has so much proration the more hits it gets, lol.

Ok...I'm still finding it hard to believe this, but I think OD might buff the P2 on or give a Bonus Proration to some of Jin's drive moves.... If I bump up P2 of 2D to around 92, I predict the entire combo in the OD video in the starting post of the thread, except for Touga followup, which I can't calculate yet as I have no data on it (btw, Touga seems to be unchanged from CS:EX aside from the followup afaik). Don't get me wrong though...the value of 2D P2 posted is correct for non-OD still, lol.

I didn't think I could get any more hype for Jin. Then Tetsu appears and breaks my hype-o-meter, lol.

Jin's CT at least almost has to have P2 of 100 or close to it, otherwise that 8k combo wouldn't be doing that much damage...at least I don't think so. EDIT: I noticed from the OD combo in the first video that my calc for that combo start falling short of the video at 2D...this happens for crouching j.B > 5B > 5C > 6C > 2D as well in a non-OD situation. It looks like: - 2D actually has 800 damage (calculations predicted 2D > 6B > 5B > 5C > 2C > 3C > 214B > C and crouching j.B > 5B > 5C > 6C > 2D > j.2C > j.C > 5B > 5C > 3C > 214B > C like a dream and the OD video's damage for 2D) - EDIT: 214B followup does 200 damage when 214B is a starter and 198 damage at minimum - Sekka followup might have P2 of about 83 (hard to tell), which is not applied to 2nd hit - EDIT: Hizansen is problematic...it probably does have about 1k base (thank you Tetsu), but in the OD video in this thread it seems like it gets a buff to 1120 - Overdrive seems to blow all my calculations out of the water still (after 2D in the video, stuff still does more damage than I calculate), even though I'm almost certain my fix for 2D is correct...no idea what's going on with OD anymore, lol Most of the normals, including 5A, seem correct though, in case you were wondering, lol.

Dang...that touga OD follow up sounds like it does a ton of damage.... I think that's 100 heat total...CT and j.214D each take 25 and touga for 50 more right?

I think sekka follow-up has around 400 base damage on the first hit. I don't know about the 2nd cause I have no idea whether it applies proration from itself to the 2nd hit, but the total should be somewhere around 1110 base with no proration (assuming it doesn't apply proration to it's own 2nd hit) for both hits. I'm leaning toward a proration after both hits of around 82 or so, but it's not easy to nail down.... I'm getting a little more error in my calculations than I'd like when seeing sekka > follow-up > 5C > 2C and comparing it to my calculations.

um...just looking at the dmg and proration stuff xlolxlolx posted. I know that it's probably not set in stone, but the only way I've gotten DP D to come out to 1196 with the values given is to change the character proration to 70. Any idea if they changed Jin's character proration from 80 in CS:EX? EDIT: Just looked at 2B > 5C > 6C on a vid, does 1318. When I set character proration to 70 and use the values xlolxlolx posted, I get that. So I'm leaning toward saying they did change it to 70, but I could be wrong still.

I think Gagaga has almost confirmed for me that the minimum we can do with hiyoku is around 1k

I know the feeling...but at least we won't have a ton of position specific combos to keep track of like in CS:EX...at least I don't think we will.

Until we get a CH, then we might have a bit more fun, lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t40H7X1Nti0#t=1m16s So...did they nerf Reyhou's I-frames or was that a case of the hand is quicker than the DP?

P1 is the proration given by only the first hit in a combo. P2 is the proration given by every hit, including the first, in the combo. Every attack has its own values for P1 and P2. Proration, typically expressed as a percentage (100 to 0), is what reduces the base damage of attacks that are used in a combo. The higher the number for proration, the lower the reduction in damage of the next attack and the lower the proration number, the higher the damage reduction of the next attack.

That Hiyoku combo minus the Hiyoku would do somewhere around 2.4k in Extend, where here it did 2.3k before Hiyoku. But in Extend the added Hiyoku would only do around 860 or so instead of 1.1k. Feels good to have a solid Hiyoku back again.

I really like the looks of the new EX air ice sword. Wonder what kind of stuff we'll be able to do with it.... EDIT: Also, did I see 3k off of 2B CH in the match against Bullet above? Not too shabby there Jin.

As long as we don't need to time things with no visible cues too often for different characters, i.e. Rehyou on Makoto, I'm stoked.