Oiboi

It's the rarity of the usage of 5HS that makes those combos good. How often will you be in naked mode with tension? Chances are, not very often. 5HS is completely and totally unsafe without tension, since it can be grabbed ON HIT. To boot, timing a move to connect after the FRC is difficult to chain properly, however, this is easier now in AC since it has 2 FRC points. The fact is, 5HS is such a bad move it becomes good, since it's not used much they will never see it coming and when you will use it, you will need to use tension to do anything with it. Damage isn't always Zappa's priority, when it comes right down to it. It's the main goal, of course, but he takes the scenic route to the Damaging combos But my point is, don't expect to do those often, but know them just in case (zappa's mixup is nasty good so take advantage of it).

Oregon?! There's a freaking GG scene in oregon? Wow. I went to final round and choked first round against Kenji, but it was still good fun. Dunno if I can go again...

I don't think Zappa can actually, not just from the three knockdown meter trick. If he gets a dizzy he can, but I'm pretty sure his IK activation is just too long, plus the 13~ frames it takes to actually execute (it's a throw, but he has to first get close enough to her waking up, then do the mode, then execute...).

Er... If I remember right, these are rather old, aren't they? I believe they've been posted in the Zappa forums before, but this brings up the point of why aren't they in the sticky lol... Anyways, yeah, They aren't too bad for getting the grasp of things. Don't be afraid to make up your own shenanigans though, Zappa isn't like Eddie where everyone tries to play the same way D:

Yeah, don't bother waiting and paying shipping. Play-asia is reliable and all, in my experience anyways, but really, just go get the american version at your local gamestore; it might take a little searching but 9/10 stores should have it. It sold pretty well from what I understand, so I don't think it should be too hard to get your hands on.

TIME PARADOX! And Chipp has Potemkin F.D.B. His boogers. Zappa's either being molested by S-Ko or got shoved in the netherworld by slayer, forced to live as a couple with S-Ko (Both cute but essentially does the same thing, gets him the hell out of the story... again ) Faust decides he doesn't like the PWAB for killing the girl that made him go crazy and goes after them, as does about half the rest of the cast... In fact, I'm assuming either they all die fighting the PWAB or they beat the shit out of them and fuck off for a while? Regardless, according to GG2's story, they never really existed anyways. That's the problem with multiverse shit, everything and nothing is canon. It's better just to enjoy it while it still ALMOST makes sense:psyduck: Edit: Needed Moar PSYDUCK

Rofl pretty much, if you main zappa or you're names Kenji you're probably one of the best in the country. Not even kidding, there's just over 10 Zappas in the entire US. Those who are good in particular, I guess you could say Rudy, Kenji, Hellsap (Got sixth at evo I heard, can't be too bad... If you read this hellsap, I haven't gotten around to watching your matches yet D: ), And I suppose I'm decent (I always choke at tourneys though so, yeah). So really it's pretty much anyone whose here and those you hear are good by word of mouth. You'll see me at Season's Beatings so we'll be able to talk, I'm the MASSIVE DORK.

Just as a note, I don't mean to be an ass or something, but I think both of your threads could have just been posted in existing threads. Anyways, I'll be going to Season's Beatings, and I don't exactly plan on choking this time (yeah but we'll see amirite lol)

Sorry, I should have noted that they're my interpretations. I figured that it'd be unlikely for zappa to get a translation any time soon lol. I wouldn't imagine that they're much different than what the Japanese would say though, considering I more or less agree with the grading for him.

1 Frame? It's been a while since I checked so I'm probably the wrong one here. My point is, Backdash adds invul frames to the standard wakeup 'can't be hit' thing (during the entire standing up animation, plus the minor amount of invul/time to block once they're actually standing), allowing you to get around a lot of things. I'll have to go read up to remember I guess.

Seeing as how this thread is open again, lemme ask a few questions. While we already have a pretty good list to consider how strong a character is, we lack anything about mixups, which is a great deal of the game. To add to this, there's nothing about Oki tactics or wakeup options. I feel this is a huge thing to the game and every character, since if they cannot get a hit in any kind of abare ability or space control becomes more or less useless. Maybe this should also be considered for character strengths? Seeing the new tier list seems more accurate to me now, but I wonder what made Eddie and Testament remain S while the other higher tiers dropped a level? I didn't read the past pages, so sorry if I missed the discussion about this. Also, I find it odd so many characters are crammed into the C tier. All those characters are on equal footing with each other? Edit: Also, what the heck, I'll fill this out while I'm here. Zappa: Naked: * Average damage E: Combos are very short and tend to lead into Summon only. Air combos are possible but very difficult to reach a little over 100. * Max damage E: Max is about the same as average, for the same reasons; if he gets a combo, he's not going for damage, he's going for summon. * Pokes C: 6P and 5K beat out a ton of moves, and f.S can keep nearly anyone away and lead into a gauranteed summon combo. * Pressure D: Blockstrings are short and leave him rather vulnerable afterwards. * Mixup C: 5HS is a fast overhead but can be grabbed on hit, 6HS leaves him vulnerable on block but good on hit, 5D has grab invulnerability on it. All of his lows are fast and high priority, and he has a lot of them. * Okizeme C: 5D has grab invul, which can bait grab attempts. Spit can keep them from trying to jump or DP on wakeup. Overheads and a well timed 2HS can be tricky. * Against ground D: j.Hs is his only noteworthy air trick, as it hits backwards (Good crossup options). j.D also works for this, but not nearly as well and has little priority. * Against air C: 6P is an amazing anti-air, and summon will beat anything that doesn't. * Breaking out of pressure C: Summon will defeat or tradehit most moves in the game cleanly, with only one frame to execute safely it's an amazing move. * Defense C: Again, summone and 5K/6P can go around or beat out nearly any move in the game if timed properly. * In general situations C: The idea is to get a summon, so he won't be in this mode very long. Getting a summon hit in is great, but doesn't lead into a lot of damage or options. Dog: * Average damage C: Long combos and unblockables don't deal a lot of damage normally, but can almost always lead into another combo with unblockable setups. * Max damage A: Dog loop can deal a large amount of damage but is situational; a proper unblockable setup can lead to a semi-infinite unblockable loop by defeating wakeup. 2HS deals a lot of damage and has 2X dizzy modifier, and is a staple move for the dog. * Pokes B: 5K, 6P, and f.S are all still here, plus the dogs moves (5D, 8D beat out alot and can be very safe with proper pressure strings, 4D has invul on the backflip, D afterwards hits high) make Zappa able to still defeat a lot, if not completely shut down the opponent. * Pressure C: Very good corner pressure and amazing blockstrings, but pushback can eventually end the pressure if not done properly. * Mixup B: With two unblockables and 5HS now a safe move because of 5D's poke, he can get through the defense with little effort. * Okizeme B: 2D is only vulnerable to a DP, and even then they can be baite for a free resummon. * Against ground D: Zappa's poor air moves still apply, with j.HS still being his only real noteworthy move. * Against air B: 6P and 8D work great to beat out most stuff. * Breaking out of pressure B: Dog can be controlled during blockstun, making any dog attack applicable during pressure. * Defense C: Zappa loses his summon move to control the dog, but if the pressure forces him away from the dog, it can take a long time for him to get close enough to do anything useful. To add to this, the player has to focus on defending and positioning the dog. * In general situations B: Dog assists greatly to defeat most attempts at counterattacks, and can apply great pressure and combos, allowing zappa to get Raou very quickly. Sword: * Average damage C: Sword combos aren't too long but deal a good chunk of damage. * Max damage B: Can deal up to half a bar with 50% tension on average defense characters, but can only get a little bit more for 100%. * Pokes B: 5HS is a very quick meaty that hits twice and pushes the enemy away on block, 6P and 5K are still here. any of the slash moves are amazingly high priority. J.HS has an FRC and high priority. * Pressure C: Blockstrings aren't too long but can crank gaurd bar rather easily. * Mixup C: 6HS and 5D are the only ground overhead options. 6HS hit's high, then low, and can be timed to hit later than the opponent expects, but once it's used once or twice almost anyone will catch on, rendering it almost useless. Sword slide allows for odd mixup options by doing a low or overhead as it comes back, but Zappa's vulnerable during this. * Okizeme D: Very little oki tactics, 5D being an ok grab invul option. Bating DP's with the sword 623HS to clash and reinput on the clash can sometimes give options, but that's about it. * Against ground C: j.HS can still crossup, but is now versatile all around. Hit confirm into sword spin combos work well. * Against air B: Some of the best anti-airs in the game, 623HS and 2HS can defeat nearly any air move in the game, including Slayer j.HS. * Breaking out of pressure A: 13 frame invulnerability on his 623HS with an FRC gives combo options. * Defense C: With 623HS being his only way to defeat attacks that are close in, and his only reliable anti-grab option aside from backdash, he becomes rather weak to tick throw attempts and really great pressure strings. * In general situations C: Good damage, decent combos, but not very good pressure options and can get locked down rather easily. Good for rushdowns, but is still considered one of zappa's worst summons by many. Ghost: * Average damage E: The ghosts deal very little damage aside from having the most damaging normal in the game, 6HS. * Max damage D: Spending 100% tension nets barely any more damage than a single 6HS would. * Pokes B: f.S is very fast and has long range, 6P and 5K are still here. * Pressure B: Amazing lockdown with the ghost tosses and hauntings allow zappa to pressure the opponent for an absurdly long time. * Mixup C: 6HS is rather slow but is a good overhead with a good deal of damage. 5D is his only other overhead option. * Okizeme C: Ghost tosses can force the opponent to block, and 6HS has some long range and looks just like 5HS (which hits mid). j.HS crossover works well too. * Against ground C: j.HS, K Ghost toss, P ghost toss and using ghost toss to linger outside the opponents range make him annoying in the air, but not really much of a threat. * Against air C: 6P and a well timed HS ghost toss are his only real anti-air options. * Breaking out of pressure D: Ghosts are far too slow to do anything against pressure, and so he has to wait for an opportunity to do 5K or 6P. * Defense C: Can use the ghosts defensively (P toss FRC then block) to attempt to get out of pressure, but aside from that, he can only defend and wait for an opening. * In general situations B: The ghosts control a ton of space and make attacking difficult for the opponent. With some decent options against most characters, it makes them a force to be reckoned with despite the very low damage output. Raou: * Average damage S: General combos without tension can deal half a bar of damage easily. * Max damage S+: Can do a single combo to kill most characters in the game. * Pokes B: High priority and very fast pokes to stuff most attacks, Edguy can beat anything flat out. Always lead into a combo every time. * Pressure C: Good pressure with Darkness anthem, and can crank gaurd bar quickly, but suffers a lot of pushback. * Mixup C: Only overhead options are 5D and unsummon, both of which are very easy to see. * Okizeme B: Darkness anthem beats any wakeup move and forces the opponent to block. * Against ground B: j.HS and j.S are extremely high priority and always lead into a combo. * Against air A: Edguy is an amazing move in general, but completely obliterates air attacks. * Breaking out of pressure A: Edguy's first 7 frames are full invulnerability, and has an extremely high priority; nearly half the screen is his hitbox. * Defense C: Edguy being his only defensive option, he suffers greatly if he whiffs or if it's blocked, with almost 50 frames of vulnerability. * In general situations B: High priority, insane damage, great pressure and high chip damage allow him to either break the gaurd bar or kill them. * Overall rank C+: * Good matchups: Jam * Bad matchups: Axl, Dizzy, Slayer

The way wakeup works is that everyone has a certain amount of frames in their wakeup. Normally, once a hitbox is 'active' on wakeup, it's during the end of the standing up animation, however, this ALWAYS has full invul for every character. If you do not cancel, it's somewhere around 11 frames of invul (once the hitbox is active I mean). However, if you cancel it, you only have 9 frames of invul; This is what "Reversal" Means. Zappa's backdash has 9 frames of invul. 9+10=19 frames of invul, just one frame more than if you got a summon move. In this case, it takes some intuition to know if your opponent will attempt a move that can tradehit with summon, because if you backdash it will simply hit you regardless, with no hit to trade. This is still the second best option because of this, since block will keep you from getting hit at all while backdash can help to escape pressure. Again, you have to have your timing perfect and try to figure out how your opponent will move and attack. Attempting a 'safe' way to attempt a summon or dog attack, sword move, or ghost toss isn't necessarily a bad idea, but it's a much less safe way to wakeup. But this is zappa, to hell with safe crap, right? Normally I can get a summon if I time the reversal properly, which is odd since it's supposed to be completely random. There is an oddly high chance of getting a summon on wakeup, but if you rely on it way too much you'll end up losing a match because you got the ghost.

You're the traitor, dangief! But uh... Gimmie his IK preparation stance/bellow's mallice stance, where he bends over with his hands up. Dayton Ohio :P Edit: If you can get his unsummon, gimmie the frame where it has the portrait of him and s-Ko in it actually. I still haven't found that one

Well you play pot now, so I wouldn't be surprised if you did.

I guess you gotta have a 'mind' for him, huh? I love the dog, it's good fun. Zappa takes a lot of work but his wins are just so much more satisfying.

That's a good question... I think we have around 10-ish? But I believe some people no longer play zappa, or GG it all... Lemme try to list of some names, sorry if I forget someone 4gottenKazuma Phrekwnci Zoogstin Zeero Ankh (obviously) Chomite (Do you play, or were you just answering that question a few pages back?) Rudy Pirateyoshi (Welcome to zappa, since I've only seen on post from you I'm assuming your new :3) TryAgain Me I think that's all of them.. Does Fubarduck still play? I think someone mentioned he was at SBO or something, I'm not sure. I know Dangief doesn't really play much anymore D: (ST SUCKS) in b4 banned, But seriously, that's all I can think of off the top of my head... Edit: Oh, and Kenji doesn't main zappa but he's been playing him more recently.

Man, after reading that it makes me hope America gets a new SBO Qualifier for next year even more. I can't wait to read more!

Depending on range, I'll do P toss FRC S toss, then chase the S ghost. The trick with this is that if one hits and the other just gets blocked, I can pick it up during my blockstring. The other trick to this is that it's very effective at controlling space, because all they can do to not block the ghosts is to run and jump over the S ghost, in which case I have a HS ghost ready to go. It's very effective at putting pressure on the opponent. Another trick I like to do is jump and do a P toss, K toss land, S toss and chase the S ghost. This is similar, but it's more of a mind game; they think I just got rid of all my ghosts, but gauranteed I'll grab one of them on my rushdown, and will instantly be able to use ghost attacks as soon as I'm in their face. Using this premise, you can do a lot of corner pressure tricks by throwing out more than one ghost until you get a haunting (because then the items behave like the third ghost for you automatically). For FRCing the ghosts in combos, all I can say is practice. It's a very fast FRC and because of hitstop from whatever move you used before, you need to hit it way before you think you have to. Once you get the hang of it, it'll probably be your favorite ghost option up close though.

Just like with every other character, fighting Baiken is all about mindgames and Yomi. Unsummon: -This is probably the easiest mode to fight most baiken's with. This is because if your smart and fast enough, you can punish nearly every one of her counters with Summon. The idea is to begin putting on pressure and see how and when they try to counter; some baikens will try to counter immediately, others will counter at the end or near the end of a block string. -Mixups! It's a bit difficult for baiken's to do a low gaurd counter, though I know many can do it reliably and with little problems, but since Zappa has so many lows, throwing in an overhead will really help throw them off. -Grabbing is very good in this fight. Since baiken's only option on wakeup is to block, grab, or gaurd counter, you have the advantage of being able to set up a grab-safe poke, f.S. Because this is such a quick move and has long enough range, none of her counters are effective. Even the HS counter can be blocked. -Getting a summon is the easy part of this fight, in my opinion. Ghosts: -Pressure, pressure, Pressure. The way the ghosts work makes it pretty difficult for Baiken to counter, though not impossible. Play safe and smart, and watch for certain counters to punish them (HS toss beats HS counter, K stuffs P counter (works in the air)). -Once you get a haunting, you have to be wary of the projectiles. If you're not paying attention and the baiken uses a counter on them to hit you, it can cost the match. The idea around this is to get a haunting, then either mixup or grab her to make her vulnerable. -That's about it, nothing too fancy for the ghosts as long as your smart. Sword: -This is probably the riskiest summon for this fight. With so many easy chances for her to counter the sword, it makes it a gamble to try to do anything with it. Even I would say that it wouldn't be a bad idea to unsummon it in this fight. Nonetheless, it can still be effective because of the speed and range of it's pokes, and it's great anti-airs. -The only good part about the sword for this fight is that you can do some great mixup, as well as do a single attack and be able to block before the counter hits (in most general cases). -Still, really risky and hard to use effectively in this fight. Better off without it... Dog: -Probably the best in the fight, hands down. Unblockable setups, the ability to eat counters, and once again good pressure can put Baiken in a bad spot real fast. -The tricky part about using the dog here is to space it properly. If the dog is too far away to poke her when she attacks, or to eat a hit when she rushes in, it's useless. However, if you can get a single knockdown, you can use the dog to get unblockable setups. -Pushing them into the unblockable is risky and difficult. Any good baiken will simply do the S counter and kill either you or the dog with the invulnerability and then FRC to make it safe. Raou: -Kind of a bad idea in this fight. With the same concerns as the sword in mind, Raou can still be effective in certain situations. -HS Counter is the biggest issue here. It's the only counter that has the range to hit Raou besides P counter to 6HS or something. The best way to deal with this is to bait it, and then try to Edguy (sometimes difficult due to range and crossup options). If done properly, it will completely beat out the HS counter. -Darkness anthem is good counter bait because of it's range and frame advantage. Grabs are even more important now because of how aggressive they expect raou to be. This fight is really difficult to do, but zappa can use his own tricks to get around her counters, as well as her normal moves. Patience and being able to understand what your opponent might do is very important in this fight, or else you'll just get dustlooped.

That's not a bad idea, really... Because how the hell am I supposed to animate roger? He'd just end up looking like pedobear... Oh well, I already animated axl so doing I-no and Raven shouldn't be too hard...

Oh hey didn't know people still wanted me to work on these. I've also been meaning to start doing the caramelldansen ones (I need a reference though D: ) Also, I thought I was supposed to do the assassins next but no one really bothered me to work on it so I'll go ahead and do Axl, Bridget and Roger :P

2HS 623HS still kind of works but it's not really going to do anything... I prefer to do 2HS Sword swipe depending on their height. Uppercut is ok if they're right above you, otherwise jump cancelling for an air combo or 236S for positional advantage are the only other options off it.

Well, that's not too effective of a situation. Fuzzy gaurd is a specific issue that doesn't happen all the time, so maybe that's not the most reliable scenario. If your looking for mixup options, particularly in the air, j.HS FRC j.HS will catch most people who aren't exactly paying attention, but sword has better ground options. However, j.D works as a very weird cross up (if you jump in on top of them and do it, timed properly it will hit on the opposite side. Works best near the corner when they're not expecting it.

Or you know, at least using the translation. Zappa's moves are phrases/terms that are kind of meant to be translated to english; half of them are already english (Edguy, Darkness Anthem, etc.). So, yeah.

Huh? Where did you get that? I still don't know what KSN is supposed to stand for...