Oiboi

Oh, you should probably ignore those vids, I always play terrible on camera without exception. What the hell is KSN? And zoning against Anji doesn't really do anything, his poke range is enough to keep Zappa on defense forever, so getting in his face is better.

You can counter that by simply screaming "mamamamamama" even louder. Preferably, the cops should arrive due to noise complaint, and that's how you know your loud enough.

You can't forget also, how annoying they can be. It's always fun to frustrate your opponent just by going "Mamamamamamamamamamamamama...."

What Phrekwenci said. The trick about the dog is to understand you are effectively in 2 points at once, so you need to understand startup, active, and recovery time of every attack you do. This way, while you have the dog charging or recovering, you need to be pressuring or comboing your opponent until the dog is ready to attack again. This is particularly difficult when you chain the moves and must wait for it to finish growling so it can attack again, but the trick you can do is know your gatlings. 5k/6P into c.S/2S f.s, stuff like this will put distance between you and your opponent, but force your opponent to sit and block until the dog is ready, and as soon as f.S is over the dog should be ready to strike again, and if he's positioned correctly, you've already gotten a free hit/extended pressure. I find it interesting you think the ghosts are the best though, Phrekwenci. Most people discard the ghosts as 'not having enough damage'. Good to know someones rocking the Triplets I still say all the summons can have equal chances, but that's because I'm a crazy bastard.

You have a point, yes. I probably said that wrong myself; It doesn't really happen enough to really count as anything more than a gimmick for me. The reason is that I'll usually get a mixup, throw, or simply chip the enemy to death before I run out. But Raou lasts a specific number of frames, and even if you count the timing, it's incredibly difficult to determine the exact millisecond his gone. Aside from this, you can also tweak the timing by using a move just before he goes away (Like Edguy, 6HS), since it will not interrupt a current move to unsummon him, but he will disappear at the very end of the recovery frames. It's not a very tactical thing to know this, but you can still frustrate your opponent who suddenly second geusses their counting, then wham, overhead. For me, '9 out of 10 times' translates to the 10 times it ever occurs in a series of dozens upon dozens of casual matches. So yes, this IS a gimmick, but hey, zappa's a gimmicky guy. Short answer is that the flash and sound of the unsummon is very easy to see coming. Long Answer, yes, it's possible. Using the Darkness anthem is a good idea because it has a similar color to the FB, and it's fast enough to probably catch most people off gaurd if they aren't expecting it. Myself, I don't like unsummoning Raou, even on block it seems a bit risky and obtrusive. However, if you do it near the end of Raou's timer or if your the kinda guy who doesn't like having Raou, do it whenever you like. I don't see it working any more often than my 5/6HS gimmick, which pretty much comes down to how observant your opponent is anyways.

This is assuming your opponent is twitchy or smart and uses grab invul moves as you get in their face. Yeah, but the trick is that their looking for Raou's 5D to come out. They aren't looking for the normal dust, or 5HS or 6HS. 9 times out of 10, they won't register Raou's dissappearance soon enough to block high. On paper, it seems very high risk for little reward, but it's an option that Zappa can really use.

It works a lot more often than you think it would. I think the reason why it works is because the moves are so terrible that they just don't expect it to come out, especially when their expecting a Raou 5HS low hit to come out.

Since the first post is getting a bit HUGE and unwieldy, I thought I'd throw this up here. Raou Mixups: Raou has little to no mixup, his only ground overhead being a (relatively fast) 5D. However, the true wonders of 'mixing up' with Raou actually has little to do with Raou. The reason why I insist on not unsummoning him is because it gives you silly opportunities when it's reaching the end of his timer. Chances are that your opponent will know how long you have Raou, and if they do they're smart. However, this knowledge can also be your best weapon. If they're trying to count how long it takes for Raou to go away, just crank their gaurd bar as much as you can. Now, the bar is flashing. If they have too much health to bother blowing tension on a double Bellows Malice, then save the tension for this part: You don't need to know EXACTLY how long Raou has; in fact, this is a good idea to not bother counting the timer. Not only do you have you're opponent focusing on the timer now, but they also are looking for that huge 5D meaty. But if you are rushing in with 5HS and 6HS just as Raou dissappears, mind games are abound. Suddenly, Raou is gone and they have an overhead right on top of them. This works so often for me that it's funny; the only hard part is knowing your FRC/RC timing to keep yourself safe and give you a free summon combo to really put them on their toes. If you don't even know which one will come out, it's a safe bet that your opponent won't either (assuming you don't become predictable, of course; sometimes using this trick to make them block high every time raou dissapears will allow you to get a simply 6P in or the like). Because of this, Raou does technically give you amazing mixup. The hard part is playing against your opponent and not the character their using, and to get into their heads. This is probably Zappa's greatest tool: Intimidation.

Yes! Constructive conversation! In my matchups! (it's more likely than you think) To clarify, I was simply giving examples of how to deal with the issue he was having (in regards to f.S and such). I actually was referring to 2HS, because against Zappa it's actually pretty good move since Zappa can't get away from it without a summon if he lacks one. This is largely because he doesn't have any long-range pokes besides f.S in naked mode; I know it's not normally done but it's long hit stun and multi hit is annoying to deal with (particularly on wakeup). But yes, 5HS would have been a more proper poke to discuss since that's much more commonly used. I'm not saying Summon/DP is the best option against it, but I'm saying that if he needs it, he has it as an option. I was warning against trying to reactively summon against ABA's attack because if it's a danzai, it's already over. I agree, it's not an easy fight for either player, but for me, that's half the fun. ABA has the damage and pokes to shut Zappa out, but Zappa has his awkward pokes and moves to turn the tide in his favor. I feel it's a largely even matchup because of this, and the match will always go to the better player who has the more experience with the fight. As a side note, I like to think about what I CAN do with summons that are generally thought to be bad for a matchup, instead of thinking they just won't help. Most players sword summons aren't very good, but it is an amazingly effective tool when used properly, even when it's considered a 'bad' matchup for it. The Same goes for raou, though he's a little more difficult to use as effectively because of the lack of mixup. Still, the damage, priority, and chip damage is too useful to think of it as a bad match (Especially against ABA, who is a very aggressive character). Oh, and the dog can be used to beat out EX Danzai. Essentially using the dog to absorb the first hit while you just hit as much as you please and hit as it comes down into a free summon combo is how I do it. Technically risky, but great rewards.

That's what we call 'mental toughness'. To know when to block and not to be scared while blocking is a feat in and of itself. Zappa is actually excellent at handling pressure because of his summon move, his sword DP, the way the dog can attack independent of zappa, and Raou's edguy. The ghosts can't handle pressure but that is because they were designed to dish out the pressure. If you're afraid of ABA's rushdown, watch for f.S/2HS. Those two moves can be punishable if you time you're counters right (summon/dp). They are very good pokes too, which is why they use them alot, so if you can punish those regularly it can terrify an opponent who can't think on their feet or don't understand the matchup well. If you get predictable though, they'll rush in with Danzai and show you whose boss; again, this is about mental toughness, outwitting your opponent with whatever tools you have at your disposal.

Oh wow, I didn't post this yet? My bad Zappa and Faust's styles are polar opposites of each other. The design of them was meant to clash, which makes it obvious that it's such an awkward matchup for both characters. Naked/unsummon: -The most important thing in this matchup is to get into Faust's face. If the player has experience against Zappa's, they won't go for the pokes that miss and instead constantly use the ones that will ALWAYS work on Zappa (2HS, 6HS, 2K, etc). However, Zappa's f.S, 6P, and 5K are three amazing pokes that will still ruin Faust's day if you get close enough. -Don't get cocky. Faust's pokes are a pain in the ass and his items can really frustrate you, but defense is sometimes your one and only option in this match. Practice learning the things you can run under or summon through, mostly his air moves (a perfectly timed summon will clash with mid-full range 6HS, keeping you safe). Use common sense, don't just throw out summons and pokes randomly but don't play defensively (because that's when Faust really shines). -Get that summon and keep in his face. DO NOT GET INTO THE AIR OMG I CANNOT STRESS THAT ENOUGH WITH THIS MATCHUP. I have defeated Faust players for the single reason that I did not jump; the player even complained about it afterwards. Ghosts: -This is a pretty good summon if you know your FRC's so you can escape his counterattempts easily. For instance, P Toss FRC Block Scalpel pull, p ghost lands and you get a free rushdown combo. -Look out for his dimensional door BS. P toss will defeat the air one, but if you know your timing you can double jump over the door. Try to get in the corner and you'll force the one from behind to hit from the front, giving you a free grab. -Pressure, pressure, pressure. Don't let him throw items and stuff any counter attempt he pulls. This summon is great for this matchup, hands down. Sword: -Fast pokes can stuff nearly any poke of Fausts easily. With some of the best anti-airs in the game (2HS, DP), the sword can just completely beat anything Faust tries. -Learn what beats what in this matchup. It is vital to understand what you can beat of Fausts, because most players will always do certain patterns with Faust (it's simply the way he's designed). Therefore, you should be able to counter most things a Faust does if you understand what you're capable of. -There are too many to mention, but I'll note some things Zappa can beat with the sword: any air move with 2HS/DP, DP beats Scalpel pull, unless your close just block 6HS, otherwise you should be able to get a swordswipe or sword slide. 5HS will beat nearly any other pressure/poke attempt on the ground. Dog: -It's rather difficult to use the dog in this matchup because of Fausts items. However, because of Faust's size, if you can time your dog properly, it's pretty much all yours. -This takes personal experience with the way your opponent fights to learn how to do this vs. Faust. However, because the majority of Faust players don't have a huge grasp of the technical side of things (Since Faust generally just doesn't need to know it), you will have an advantage if you understand these things (because zappa players really need to know this stuff) and are able to figure out how your opponent plays in just a round or two. Note: I'm not saying all fausts are like this, just a very large majority I have played. I fight Senkei all the time, but the dog is still difficult to use in this matchup unless I can get the proper situation and counter hits to overwhelm him. -Dog is good, albeit even more situational then normal in this matchup. Keep the dog close and you're defense strong and you should do ok. Raou: -Meaties all day. Just take it to him and don't give him any opportunities to counter (it's very easy with Raou). -Edguy will defeat ANY attempt at action vs. Faust. Darkness anthem will beat any meaty attempt, though a properly timed scalpel pull can ruin this. Overall: Fighting Faust is tricky business, but it's still one of my favorite matchups. I'd say it's probably about even, 5-5, because of how situational both characters need to be. While Faust has range, you have mobility; Both of you can set stuff up, so you have to watch those items AND his pokes. It's very bad to forget he threw a meteor and try to attack him. It's a fun matchup though, so long as you don't get frustrated.

Yeah, I've certainly noticed this too. in terms of chances of auto summon (if you are hit while having a summon already): If you had the dog, you have about 90% chance of auto summoning it again on recovery. If you had the sword, about 50-75% chance of auto summoning. Ghosts seem to jump all over the place, sometimes seemingly 10% or less chance to 95%. Very random. This is just based on my personal experience but it's a definite trend that I've been seeing. Auto summoning when you did not have a summon already on hit is much less; about 25% random summon chance.

I guess there's no "wrong or right" way to play the dog, or zappa in general; These are just tested tried and true ways to use the dog effectively. I'd suggest learning everything you can about the dog, and then making all your own little tricks. If you like to turtle... Sitting on the other side of the screen and just doing 2D 2HS over and over again will force the opponent to do something, and you will usually be able to beat them out with one of these two moves. This won't work against Axl (he'll just chain or rensen you) or Sol's VV (though it's rare to see a sol just rush in VV without RCing, and if you think he's going to do that just block and resummon), or any other high priority multi-hit move. That said, most people don't think about it before coming in and trying to hit you. Once you get that hit, don't bother turtling anymore as they'll eventually catch on and figure something out to beat you (projectile, high priority poke or something).

Ah, didn't mean it was all about the 2D, it's just that the 2D is great move for the dog and I always use it if I know it will work. Obviously, a whiffed 2D is very dangerous because now he's vulnerable and you can't do much; I simply provided instances of when it will work flawlessly (or near flawlessly). I think 8D and 2D are the dogs most important moves, but understanding how to use all of them will make the dog a very versatile tool. Also, forgot to note that everything pertaining to Baiken's counters applies to every dead angle in the game. Good to see some activity on the zappa forums again though lol.

The thing about the dog is that 'completing' combos is NOT always necessary. Getting a knockdown is nice because you get a free unblockable setup, but it's certainly not necessary. Let's run some situationals, so you can get an idea of what I'm saying. The best thing you can do with the dog is set it up properly. Everything from there is all aggression into 2D bite; Learn the timing of all the dog moves. It'll make everything come along a lot more naturally. Dog Behind the opponent: I usually use 5D as a poke like this, waiting for the opponent to try to attack then countering them with 5D. This also works if they're coming down with an air attack on you, since you can 5D Block and still get the counter. Otherwise, I simply use 2D as I push them into it with pressure. Note: Spacing the dog is very important with this tactic. If the dog is too close then the pressure will push them past the dog bite's hitbox (though sometimes I do this purposefully to scare them into doing something, then poking them out of whatever they try to do). Now lets say you're fighting Baiken. This is where it gets tricky, because they'll use the counters to try to kill you or the dog. The trick here is to attempt the bite naked, or wait for them to do something and 6P/5k/5d. Note that if your not careful, her S counter will beat anything you try. This is when you want to start using the f.S with 4D D. If she tries to HS counter either of these, f.S is generally fast enough at max range to keep you safe. Another trick, is obviously, to attack them and force them to counter or get bit by the dog (by placing the dog in just the right position on/near them that if they try to counter, it'll hit the dog), then resummon the counter. Dog in front of the opponent: This will more or less happen in the corner more often than midscreen, and can be great for providing amazing pressure and generally annoying the crap out of your opponent. Here is where you really scare your opponent and force them to bow to the mighty power of your Dust button:psyduck: General pressure strings when in the corner: 2D (to start the bite) 6P c.S f.S 2DHit, 2HS 2K 2D (this should be long enough to not get it to chain) f.S 2D Hits. This will then put them in knockdown, which is GREAT for you because now you can reset and start all over with another wakeup 2D. If you really need a little extra damage to finish the fight, you can also do up to 2HS then 8D JC jK jS jc jK jS (Dog should reset from the chain by now) 8D as you land, and do 2HS. This is because when they recover from the 8D you will be right on them with 2HS, and if they don't faultless they'll get hit. You can also do 2D 2HS 8D Unsummon if you want Raou. To push them in to the corner when you have the dog, you want to do 5D Pressure/combo string 6D to move the dog(careful it doesn't hit) then 5D again until you have them in the corner. if your closer to one corner but the opponent is on the other side, 5D crossover will work too. Midscreen combos: In some situations, midscreen with the dog can be epic. You can do nearly any move you want and still use it effectively. However, the only person this works truly amazing for is vs. Pot. This is because he is so heavy and large that you can do a ridiculously long air combo with the dog, like so: 2HS 5D 2K 5S 8D j.K j.S, 8D, j.K j.S 8D Land j.K j.S 8D.... The timing is awkward but it's possible to get a good deal of damage (plus humiliation points) like this. Practice with the dog more than any other summon is the best I can say until you learn him. Once you learn the dog, it's like riding a bike so it's not too hard from there.

It's not theory. I've tested it, in matches. If I had something to record with I'd prove it but for now I guess you can simply regard it as theory. As long as you anticipate the setup, you can prepare to defend against it. Still, I can understand your skepticism but like I said, I'll leave it up to you to believe or disbelieve.

I get what your saying, but the fact is is that it reads the inputs regardless of what's happening, and if you can determine which hit you block first then you can block, then move to the other just as it connects and still catch the next hit. I'm not sure on all the technicalities of it but it's possible and once you keep in mind to do it when an unblockable is coming, it's not all that hard. While your right about moving at 60 frames per second is more or less impossible for a human, the game seems to have leeway to allow you to block things. Aside from which, pushback probably has something to do with all this as well, which will probably change the times when the projectile will hit anyways.

Those last few posts were PAINFUL:vbang:

Added Special Dust Cancelling. Looking forward to what everyone else uses this trick for.

LOL You have fun with that there. :psyduck: :psyduck: This is supposed to be a thread for discussing tactics. Telling someone to look out for moves that would hit a running Zappa and to run under one that most characters can crouch under anyways isn't really adding anything to the conversation.

Guess this is as good a thread as any to throw this in. A while back, I was playing with Bridget vs. Eddie. Eddie did his Sword super and I blocked it, ran up and grabbed him out of recovery. You know how bridget throws them down, then lands on them? Well, he threw Eddie too far and missed as he landed on where Eddie was SUPPOSED to be. Eddie took no damage and stood up before Bridget, and if the CPU didn't suck I'd say he would have been able to attack me. Any ideas on how that happened?

Baiken has the same motion for all of her counters. Technical skill doesn't really come into play their until she gets into her advanced stuff (like one frame P counter). Countering INTELLIGENTLY though, is completely different.

Whoa... What the hell? Definitely interesting. Never heard of anything like this happening before, but it definitely looks like Slashback reset jump options... So weird. Guess this will require testing.

Hilarious win.

That's still not exactly contributing, considering that's kind of a no-brainer